Knee pain, bike set up!
Discussion
ALawson said:
Has the OP suddenly upped the mileage with the improving weather? Knees are sensitive things and just doing this with everything remaining the same (maybe some loss of muscle definition over winter if not having done much riding) could give some pain.
I have a partial tear to left ACL and no left MPFL. (Underside of patella is a mess)!
I've not really pushed on with mileage to be honest, I'm more governed by time than distance and like to ride for a couple of hours after work given the daylight at the moment.I have a partial tear to left ACL and no left MPFL. (Underside of patella is a mess)!
I went for a ride last night and took particular care to keep my foot and knee well aligned, I don't know if this reveals an issue with my riding style but my knee definitely felt less stressed.
Thanks for input, it looks like a bike fit is worth a go, I mean what's to lose apart from a couple of hundred quid!
Steve
SVS said:
Yikes! Should you be cycling at all?
ACL is a partial and the surgeon reckons its still better than any repair (I took that with a large pinch of salt), MPFL controls patella tracking laterally and knees have always had plenty of play in the cap anyway. I expect most people if they had an arthroscopy in their 40s would be surprised to see how much damage there is.I generally avoid any low cadence training drills i.e. < 80 rpm as the knees do not like it. However the forces on the joint I aren't that excessive until its get really steep.
Look what Gruffy has achieved and he has had about 3-4 knee ops!
ChrisMCoupe said:
With so many variables that could be causing your pain; saddle height, saddle fore/aft, cleat position, crank length or a combination of all of them, I would 100% recommend a good bike fit. It won't just make you more comfortable, but may enable you to ride faster/more efficiently.
But the OP can't possibly go for a bike fit - as a non racer he's not good enough for one. 
Thornaby said:
Unless you're racing, i think bike fits are a bit useless. Get it comfortable and that should be the best fit for you. I switched to oval rings (absolute black), that's helped my knees. Help give you a consistent pedal stroke over round rings.
I'm sure there'll be some superstars along shortly to tell me i'm wrong though.
I'm not a superstar, I don't race, but I cycle a lot and I'm a chiropractor with an interest in biomechanics. I'm sure there'll be some superstars along shortly to tell me i'm wrong though.
You're wrong
I'd been riding the same road bike for a couple of years when I started feeling a bit of pain across the front of the knee.
Quick google suggested putting the seat up by a few mm, so raised the saddle by 5mm. Cured it for a few hundred miles, until it came back when I'd discovered that it had slipped down again.
Raised by 5mm again and properly tightened, it's been fine ever since.
New road bike is OK, but with hydraulic discs, the hoods are a bit longer and found towards the end of long rides my arms were getting sore. So I bought a shorter 90mm stem, instead of the standard 120mm, and its cured that.
IMHO you don't need a bike fit, almost everything can be easily adjusted on a bike. Just don't change everything at once, work through it methodically and remember the original settings, so you can put things back if they don't improve.
Quick google suggested putting the seat up by a few mm, so raised the saddle by 5mm. Cured it for a few hundred miles, until it came back when I'd discovered that it had slipped down again.
Raised by 5mm again and properly tightened, it's been fine ever since.
New road bike is OK, but with hydraulic discs, the hoods are a bit longer and found towards the end of long rides my arms were getting sore. So I bought a shorter 90mm stem, instead of the standard 120mm, and its cured that.
IMHO you don't need a bike fit, almost everything can be easily adjusted on a bike. Just don't change everything at once, work through it methodically and remember the original settings, so you can put things back if they don't improve.
GuinnessMK said:
I'd been riding the same road bike for a couple of years when I started feeling a bit of pain across the front of the knee.
Quick google suggested putting the seat up by a few mm, so raised the saddle by 5mm. Cured it for a few hundred miles, until it came back when I'd discovered that it had slipped down again.
Raised by 5mm again and properly tightened, it's been fine ever since.
New road bike is OK, but with hydraulic discs, the hoods are a bit longer and found towards the end of long rides my arms were getting sore. So I bought a shorter 90mm stem, instead of the standard 120mm, and its cured that.
IMHO you don't need a bike fit, almost everything can be easily adjusted on a bike. Just don't change everything at once, work through it methodically and remember the original settings, so you can put things back if they don't improve.
You don't NEED a bike fit in most circumstances, no....but they are often extremely beneficial.Quick google suggested putting the seat up by a few mm, so raised the saddle by 5mm. Cured it for a few hundred miles, until it came back when I'd discovered that it had slipped down again.
Raised by 5mm again and properly tightened, it's been fine ever since.
New road bike is OK, but with hydraulic discs, the hoods are a bit longer and found towards the end of long rides my arms were getting sore. So I bought a shorter 90mm stem, instead of the standard 120mm, and its cured that.
IMHO you don't need a bike fit, almost everything can be easily adjusted on a bike. Just don't change everything at once, work through it methodically and remember the original settings, so you can put things back if they don't improve.
Your problem also assumes people know about things like fore/aft, that you can actually change crank lengths etc....a friend of mine recently bought a bike and didn't know you could even tilt the saddle.
Your tale also seems to assume that people know that when you raise the saddle height, you also change the reach, which can vary according to the seat post setback, etc etc. Changing one thing changes several others. Also - cleat position can be hugely important. I can fairly safely assume I have seen and observed more human bodies than you have, and I have yet to come across anyone who is perfectly symmetrical, cleat position, putting a wedge under one side or using insoles/orthotics etc are all things that could potentially help people.
Just because a set up "feels fine", doesn't mean there isn't a better one out there....
Dr Burt (of Sky)'s bible would be a good starting point for DIY adjustments https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bike-Fit-Optimise-Perform...
I was put off a professional bike fit as there seem to be different schools of thought - would be interesting to send the same cyclist to 3 or 4 practicioners and see how consistent the recommendations are. Also, when I bought my saddle from 10point their guy who does bike fits said I should be on 145mm cranks. Maybe I'll take the plunge after the next knee op.
I was put off a professional bike fit as there seem to be different schools of thought - would be interesting to send the same cyclist to 3 or 4 practicioners and see how consistent the recommendations are. Also, when I bought my saddle from 10point their guy who does bike fits said I should be on 145mm cranks. Maybe I'll take the plunge after the next knee op.
I had a professional bike fit and it made a world of difference 
I wish I’d done it sooner, because it would have saved me a lot of injury. Although I’d read about bike fitting, there’s no way I could have achieved the same fit on my own.
Some of the fitters, such as Retül, measure the position of your limbs as you cycle (using 3D motion capture) to help determine the right fit.
I wish I’d done it sooner, because it would have saved me a lot of injury. Although I’d read about bike fitting, there’s no way I could have achieved the same fit on my own.
Some of the fitters, such as Retül, measure the position of your limbs as you cycle (using 3D motion capture) to help determine the right fit.
millen said:
there seem to be different schools of thought - would be interesting to send the same cyclist to 3 or 4 practicioners and see how consistent the recommendations are ...
Whilst I was happy with my bike fit, I too wondered the same thing. Has anyone compared different fits?SVS said:
I had a professional bike fit and it made a world of difference
I wish I’d done it sooner, because it would have saved me a lot of injury. Although I’d read about bike fitting, there’s no way I could have achieved the same fit on my own.
Some of the fitters, such as Retül, measure the position of your limbs as you cycle (using 3D motion capture) to help determine the right fit.
Yes, I had 2 bike fits from different fitters on my old bike. The first was a fit from someone who took measurements, discussed my needs etc and set me up....made a difference for sure and I thought "this is great - so much better", later on down the line I decided to get a Retul fit - much, much better still and I went back to them for my newer bike. I didn't "need" the retul fit, as I was comfortable enough on the old set up, but having the retul made me even better, and faster. This is why I don't agree with the "you can do it yourself" comment or "you only need one if you're racing"....I think anyone doing a reasonable amount of hours on the bike should get a good bike fit done. Yes, some may well have a very good set up already, but an awful lot of people do not.I wish I’d done it sooner, because it would have saved me a lot of injury. Although I’d read about bike fitting, there’s no way I could have achieved the same fit on my own.
Some of the fitters, such as Retül, measure the position of your limbs as you cycle (using 3D motion capture) to help determine the right fit.
millen said:
there seem to be different schools of thought - would be interesting to send the same cyclist to 3 or 4 practicioners and see how consistent the recommendations are ...
Whilst I was happy with my bike fit, I too wondered the same thing. Has anyone compared different fits?bigdom said:
Thornaby said:
I tend to set my own bikes up, like I always have. Tape measure, plumb line, mirror. I tweak my cleats if I need to etc etc. Bike fits on a TT bike, yes. Bike fit to do a sportive? set your own up so it’s comfy.
Each to their own. I tend to work on prevention rather than cure, I'll ignore your advice.You might be doing it the same way as you've always done, although it would appear you need to revisit what you're doing.
Something would appear to not be correct, as you've changed your crank rings to try and solve a setup issue?
Interesting comments above. I've looked again at 10point. Their offering is called GURU fit http://www.ten-point.co.uk/bikes/bike-fitting/ It seems they prefer to do this before you buy a bike, which makes sense, and have a big database covering the dimensions of most high-end frame sizes, but will for a lower fee recommend adjustments on an existing frame. Perhaps I'll wait till I'm in the market for a new frame.
Thornaby said:
I had knee pain, switched to ovals, now dont have any. No power gains etc as some of manufacturers claim though.
Interesting. There does seem to be emerging evidence for ovals helping with knee pain. Google pulled up this study, among others.ALawson said:
I think Gruffy has got ovals on his new bike. My local mechanic reckons Di2 doesn't like it very much.
I have Q Rings on eTap and once set up correctly, it's shifted faultlessly for the last year or so. Having said that, it did take a while to get the setup correct, with over-shifting being the most common issue I found. I also tend to change the front rings when in the correct gear, i.e not when I'm at 36-11 or 52-30.This was published a couple of days ago https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6919395... (it might be a load of rubbish, given the source)
E65Ross said:
SVS said:
I had a professional bike fit and it made a world of difference
I wish I’d done it sooner, because it would have saved me a lot of injury. Although I’d read about bike fitting, there’s no way I could have achieved the same fit on my own.
Some of the fitters, such as Retül, measure the position of your limbs as you cycle (using 3D motion capture) to help determine the right fit.
Yes, I had 2 bike fits from different fitters on my old bike. The first was a fit from someone who took measurements, discussed my needs etc and set me up....made a difference for sure and I thought "this is great - so much better", later on down the line I decided to get a Retul fit - much, much better still and I went back to them for my newer bike. I didn't "need" the retul fit, as I was comfortable enough on the old set up, but having the retul made me even better, and faster. This is why I don't agree with the "you can do it yourself" comment or "you only need one if you're racing"....I think anyone doing a reasonable amount of hours on the bike should get a good bike fit done. Yes, some may well have a very good set up already, but an awful lot of people do not.I wish I’d done it sooner, because it would have saved me a lot of injury. Although I’d read about bike fitting, there’s no way I could have achieved the same fit on my own.
Some of the fitters, such as Retül, measure the position of your limbs as you cycle (using 3D motion capture) to help determine the right fit.
millen said:
there seem to be different schools of thought - would be interesting to send the same cyclist to 3 or 4 practicioners and see how consistent the recommendations are ...
Whilst I was happy with my bike fit, I too wondered the same thing. Has anyone compared different fits?What were the differences between the first and second fit?
TheFungle said:
What's to say if you went to another fitter you wouldn't see the same improvement yet again?
What were the differences between the first and second fit?
I can't answer the first question, because I don't know. Maybe it would be better, but the fitters I went to have a very good reputation, and I have trust in them What were the differences between the first and second fit?
Off the top of my head.....saddle moved forwards and down a few mm, shorter stem fitted and flipped to get lower, saddle angle tilted down a couple of degrees, shorter cranks fitted after recommendation.
I'm going to take the plunge and get a bike fit done so thanks for advice but in the meantime I've been watching a view on line videos with regard saddle height. One particular method I looked at was the 109% method, that is a measurement taken from your groin utilising a book and a taper measure multiplying by 109% to give you the optimum saddle position when measured from the peddle at it's furthest reach. This all seems well and good but the same chap advises on one of his other videos that a saddle position can be approximated by sitting on your bike and just feathering the peddle with your heel again at it's longest reach.
My concern with these two methods and I've tried both give results that are 50mm apart! Doesn't seem to be very accurate is my conclusion or am I missing something.
https://youtu.be/sUNgZ_aRRL8
My concern with these two methods and I've tried both give results that are 50mm apart! Doesn't seem to be very accurate is my conclusion or am I missing something.
https://youtu.be/sUNgZ_aRRL8
Edited by sone on Thursday 18th April 10:10
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