Bike drivetrains ?

[J4CKO]

How long do you get out of drivetrain components, and what are your tips on prolonging its lifespan ? Other than the usual clean and oil it.

Just changing the main 50T chainring and chain on mine, Cassette and smaller 34T ring looks ok but guess will find out.

I works well but always amazes me how after all these years, we are still on Chains and Derailleurs, suprised nobody has come up with a better system that isnt open to the elements and so prone to wearing out, the highest tech version being the same old stuff that has electronics in it to do the movement.

[flight147z]

For me, doing 90%+ miles in the dry, full degrease of the chain every 200 miles or so and using only dry lube

• 1500-2000 miles per chain
• 3 chains per cassette
• probably 3 cassettes per chainring (not replaced yet so this is an estimate based on current wear)

For other bits

• I got 8,000 miles out of my first front derailleur (had to replace due to a seized bolt)
• I'm on my third rear derailleur, first one lost tension after around 2,000 miles, second one just wore to the extent that it was no longer smooth

Everything else is original 5800 105

[David_M]

J4CKO said:

How long do you get out of drivetrain components, and what are your tips on prolonging its lifespan ? Other than the usual clean and oil it.

I am not a very diligent cleaner, but on the flip side I ride for fun so I don't ride in the rain.

My bike had its tenth anniversary this year, so has covered somewhere between 45,000km and 50,000km. Both the bottom bracket and chainrings are still original and seem to work fine, although I keep thinking about changing them.

Otherwise, flight147z seems about right re chains and cassettes.

In the meantime, other than consumables, I have replaced (once): rear derailleur, saddle, brake calipers, cables, bar tape, wheels (twice).

J4CKO said:

It works well but always amazes me how after all these years, we are still on Chains and Derailleurs, surprised nobody has come up with a better system that isn't open to the elements and so prone to wearing out, the highest tech version being the same old stuff that has electronics in it to do the movement.

I have read (somewhere) that chain and sprocket is about the most efficient transmission system that we have yet devised. Everything else involves higher loss of energy, and when you are the sole provider of that energy it is very critical.

[g7jhp]

Wash. Clean and degrease and relube chain and cassette etc weekly (after every ride in the winter).

Usually replace a cassette on the second new two chain.

The front chain rings get changed when they start to sharpen.

Try and learn to change gears sympathetically, not crossing the chain too much.

I'd imagine Di2 will help wear as it should make cleaner gear changes.

[David_M]

g7jhp said:

Wash. Clean and degrease and relube chain and cassette etc weekly (after every ride in the winter).

I'm sure that this is the most important part of the whole thing (although as I said, I'm too lazy to be very diligent).

g7jhp said:

Try and learn to change gears sympathetically, not crossing the chain too much.

I'd imagine Di2 will help wear as it should make cleaner gear changes.

I don't think even clumsy gear changes actually cause much in the way of chain wear.

I did once see a chain come apart as a mate changed gear, but that chain was Capital-F fked and the change was just the last straw.

[flight147z]

David_M said:

g7jhp said:

Wash. Clean and degrease and relube chain and cassette etc weekly (after every ride in the winter).

I'm sure that this is the most important part of the whole thing (although as I said, I'm too lazy to be very diligent).

g7jhp said:

Try and learn to change gears sympathetically, not crossing the chain too much.

Cleaning really is the most important thing. If nothing else it will make your bike much nicer to ride with a quieter drivechain, more accurate and easy gear shifting and less friction losses

I'm always surprised that people are willing to spend cash on expensive groupsets and then not bother to keep them clean. A cheap clean groupset will be much nice to ride with than an expensive dirty groupset

[frisbee]

I commute by bike so there is no way I'm cleaning it after every ride! At most I'll give it a rinse down when I get home if the roads have been gritted.

Mud guards and wet chain lube in the winter. Avoid degreaser unless you are stripping the chain and sprockets off and giving them a proper clean, which I do maybe twice a year. Replace the chain regularly and try and avoid just using a few gears to spread the wear over the cassette.

I have no luck with calipers, disk or rim, but my drivetrains last really well.

[flight147z]

frisbee said:

I commute by bike so there is no way I'm cleaning it after every ride! At most I'll give it a rinse down when I get home if the roads have been gritted.

Mud guards and wet chain lube in the winter. Avoid degreaser unless you are stripping the chain and sprockets off and giving them a proper clean, which I do maybe twice a year. Replace the chain regularly and try and avoid just using a few gears to spread the wear over the cassette.

I have no luck with calipers, disk or rim, but my drivetrains last really well.

I think you have the exact opposite approach to me

I don't like wet lube as stuff sticks to the chain. I prefer just relubing (or riding in the dry!)

I don't like mudguards for aesthetic reasons and would rather get wet

I think the cheaper groupsets work better than the higher end ones with less maintenance. With the small tolerances on 11 speed groupsets they seem to be very sensitive to being well maintained to get the best performance out of them. Something like Sora/Tiagra I assume is fine if you spend no effort on it at all

[cml24]

When I stopped cycling to work and started cycling for fun I switched to a dry lube. It was fine and easy to use, but only seemed to last about fifty miles before the chain sounded horrible and dry.

It is from muc off. Perhaps there are longer lasting ones?

Anyway, I switched back to cheap wet lube as had a longer ride coming up and haven't changed back yet.

[flight147z]

cml24 said:

When I stopped cycling to work and started cycling for fun I switched to a dry lube. It was fine and easy to use, but only seemed to last about fifty miles before the chain sounded horrible and dry.

It is from muc off. Perhaps there are longer lasting ones?

Anyway, I switched back to cheap wet lube as had a longer ride coming up and haven't changed back yet.

I also use mucoff and this is relatively accurate, albeit I can get up to 100 miles if mostly dry and clean roads

The trade off is that a bottle lasts me years so I don't mind redoing it fairly often

[yellowjack]

David_M said:

J4CKO said:

It works well but always amazes me how after all these years, we are still on Chains and Derailleurs, surprised nobody has come up with a better system that isn't open to the elements and so prone to wearing out, the highest tech version being the same old stuff that has electronics in it to do the movement.

I have read (somewhere) that chain and sprocket is about the most efficient transmission system that we have yet devised. Everything else involves higher loss of energy, and when you are the sole provider of that energy it is very critical.

This. Drive shafts and hub gears have been tried before. Hub gears took hold, although still in the minority, but the shaft drive died out pretty swiftly. Given the age of the system, and how little it has changed, the roller chain transmission is a bloody miracle of engineering genius.

I used to swear by thoroughly degreasing a new chain and going with 'Squirt' wax based dry lube exclusively from new. Haven't done so this time around on any of my bikes as I couldn't get hold of any during the early weeks of "lockdown". But next time I swap chains/cassettes I'll be going back to it if I can buy some at a decent price. Wet lubes just make a nasty grinding paste and cover you in hard-to-shift black gunk if you have a mechanical issue while on a ride. No such dramas with 'Squirt'...

[flight147z]

yellowjack said:

David_M said:

J4CKO said:

It works well but always amazes me how after all these years, we are still on Chains and Derailleurs, surprised nobody has come up with a better system that isn't open to the elements and so prone to wearing out, the highest tech version being the same old stuff that has electronics in it to do the movement.

I have read (somewhere) that chain and sprocket is about the most efficient transmission system that we have yet devised. Everything else involves higher loss of energy, and when you are the sole provider of that energy it is very critical.

This. Drive shafts and hub gears have been tried before. Hub gears took hold, although still in the minority, but the shaft drive died out pretty swiftly. Given the age of the system, and how little it has changed, the roller chain transmission is a bloody miracle of engineering genius.

I used to swear by thoroughly degreasing a new chain and going with 'Squirt' wax based dry lube exclusively from new. Haven't done so this time around on any of my bikes as I couldn't get hold of any during the early weeks of "lockdown". But next time I swap chains/cassettes I'll be going back to it if I can buy some at a decent price. Wet lubes just make a nasty grinding paste and cover you in hard-to-shift black gunk if you have a mechanical issue while on a ride. No such dramas with 'Squirt'...

Completely agree with this. The "SIL-TEC" Coating that Shimano apply out of the factory to their chains is super slick (and perhaps gives better performance than anything we can apply later on) but it doesn't last unfortunately. Closest I have ever get to a chain staying that clean and lubricated is a frequent dry lube. Although wet lube is the easier option and can be left for longer it results in a dirty (worn) drivechain and a reduction in performance

[g7jhp]

frisbee said:

I commute by bike so there is no way I'm cleaning it after every ride! At most I'll give it a rinse down when I get home if the roads have been gritted.

Mud guards and wet chain lube in the winter. Avoid degreaser unless you are stripping the chain and sprockets off and giving them a proper clean, which I do maybe twice a year. Replace the chain regularly and try and avoid just using a few gears to spread the wear over the cassette.

I have no luck with calipers, disk or rim, but my drivetrains last really well.

I don't usually commute by bike which is a shame. Although I occasionally use a mtb as a station bike.

In winter the bike always gets a full clean (which is a PITA), but it's the grit and dirt which causes quicker wear as it acts like a sander between surfaces.

- Wash down first with hose to remove grit
- Full chain clean with a ParkTool Chain Cleaner (I had the cheaper plastic one and then got the metal one which os much morw durable and so should last must longer).



- Cassette gets cleaned (wheel off) with an an old tooth brush
- Then relube with chain lube - wet lube (winter) or dry in drier months.
- All done on a bike stand so I can change gear and ensure the lube is across all gear rings.
- Takes 15/20 mins with a routine for the whole bike. Longer when the sun is out an I can spend extra time.

Gear changing is important, so not too over stretch the chain or sharpen/wear the front rings and cassette from cross-chaining.

[J4CKO]

Have got the Park tool chain cleaner thing, what do you guys use as cleaner, I used car brake cleaner but not sure thats ideal.

Just renewed the front chainring, chain and was having problems, Derailleur was a bit knackered as it got caught int he wheel, have straightened it and it now works but have ordered a new one as dont trust it and its fairly well used anyway. not sure how I would do this without my bike stand, absolute necessity.

[Justin S]

J4CKO said:

Have got the Park tool chain cleaner thing, what do you guys use as cleaner, I used car brake cleaner but not sure thats ideal.

Just renewed the front chainring, chain and was having problems, Derailleur was a bit knackered as it got caught int he wheel, have straightened it and it now works but have ordered a new one as dont trust it and its fairly well used anyway. not sure how I would do this without my bike stand, absolute necessity.

I use Comma hyperclean. Just bought 5 ltrs for £20 or so. Bike specific stuff is just marketing for degreasers and expensive . I use a hand sprayer and a small brush if I leave the chain on or a chinese takeaway tub with lid if I take it off.
If a mech has gone in a wheel, I would suspect the dropout will need a check as potentially bent as well.
Second best thing to buy after a bike is a bike stand. Its a complete arse doing anything bike fixing/ cleaning/ tweeking without one.

[J4CKO]

Justin S said:

J4CKO said:

Have got the Park tool chain cleaner thing, what do you guys use as cleaner, I used car brake cleaner but not sure thats ideal.

Just renewed the front chainring, chain and was having problems, Derailleur was a bit knackered as it got caught int he wheel, have straightened it and it now works but have ordered a new one as dont trust it and its fairly well used anyway. not sure how I would do this without my bike stand, absolute necessity.

I use Comma hyperclean. Just bought 5 ltrs for £20 or so. Bike specific stuff is just marketing for degreasers and expensive . I use a hand sprayer and a small brush if I leave the chain on or a chinese takeaway tub with lid if I take it off.
If a mech has gone in a wheel, I would suspect the dropout will need a check as potentially bent as well.
Second best thing to buy after a bike is a bike stand. Its a complete arse doing anything bike fixing/ cleaning/ tweeking without one.

The dropout has been replaced, it sheared off.

[Horace Van Khute]

g7jhp said:

I don't usually commute by bike which is a shame. Although I occasionally use a mtb as a station bike.

In winter the bike always gets a full clean (which is a PITA), but it's the grit and dirt which causes quicker wear as it acts like a sander between surfaces.

- Wash down first with hose to remove grit
- Full chain clean with a ParkTool Chain Cleaner (I had the cheaper plastic one and then got the metal one which os much morw durable and so should last must longer).


- Cassette gets cleaned (wheel off) with an an old tooth brush
- Then relube with chain lube - wet lube (winter) or dry in drier months.
- All done on a bike stand so I can change gear and ensure the lube is across all gear rings.
- Takes 15/20 mins with a routine for the whole bike. Longer when the sun is out an I can spend extra time.

Gear changing is important, so not too over stretch the chain or sharpen/wear the front rings and cassette from cross-chaining.

That's why I'm thinking of converting to 1x (I'm not a performance road racer). What's the point having 2x11 when you shouldn't really explore certain combinations due to this. And going from the big chain ring to the small one and maintaining momentum with rear derailleur whilst transitioning into a climb is extremely annoying (yes I know you should prepare in advance but in certain situations there's no way to avoid this).

As for cleaning I use the plastic blue ParkTool chain thing you have a picture of here but I find that to get things really clean the chain has to come off. I'm thinking of getting an ultrasonic cleaner for this although it seems like a bit of an overkill.

[Horace Van Khute]

David_M said:

I have read (somewhere) that chain and sprocket is about the most efficient transmission system that we have yet devised. Everything else involves higher loss of energy, and when you are the sole provider of that energy it is very critical.

Just came across this video comparing Rohloff speedhub vs Pinion gearbox with graphs comparing efficiency against chain drivetrains (Orange line). Based on that Speedhub is as efficient as the traditional approach. Combined with Gates' carbon belt this would be the dream "close to 0 maintenance solution". If only it was a bit cheaper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_hx4V9mYuw



https://fahrradzukunft.de/20/wirkungsgradmessungen...

[Justin S]

Horace Van Khute said:

That's why I'm thinking of converting to 1x (I'm not a performance road racer). What's the point having 2x11 when you shouldn't really explore certain combinations due to this. And going from the big chain ring to the small one and maintaining momentum with rear derailleur whilst transitioning into a climb is extremely annoying (yes I know you should prepare in advance but in certain situations there's no way to avoid this).

Went out with a mate the other day, on a climb he ran out of gears. On the descent , he ran out of gears. I believe his was a 1 X11 . I have an old school triple and where I ride, I do use them ( rarely for the granny, but its there) . I did take the granny off to make a sort of 2 x 11 , but put it back on as the benefit outweighed the grams missing.
From the guys I ride with , I find that I am quicker with a larger spread of options for gears. I suppose it mainly is where you ride and how you ride as to what suits. I accept that all bikes come 1X now a days , but for me currently 1 X means I can loose potential climbing and descending speed. Modern bikes are pretty heavy compared to bikes in the past, so saying iits a weight saving idea is not really. 1 X does make things more simplistic and less to break, but I have never broken a front mech, front shifter or a chainring.
As to crossing gears, thats all about knowing your gears and recognising it.

[J4CKO]

Watched this about belt drive, very interesting,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SKeQ6B2UTk

Fixed mine after the gears/twig/wheel interface.

I replaced my Bar Tape, Dropout, Chain, Derailleur, Top Chain ring and spent £100 all told, including buying a chain master link tool. Seems pretty cheap and most of it was due anyway.

Got it all set up earlier and its shifting perfectly, very satisfying DIYing it, So easy with all the YouTube guides and it being so easy now to get the parts and tools.