Turbo trainers/Zwift/Peleton

[okgo]

Tim O said:

I think Wattbikes quote +/- 1%. The better turbos (Neo, Kickr, Hammer etc) I think quote +/- 2%.

And most powermeters you stick on your bike are 2% I think, or were.

[Ares]

Gareth79 said:

Ares said:

bonerp said:

I need to 'do' something and been thinking about an exercise bike rather than a turbo trainer type set up. I think the simulation app would be useful as a motivator.

Whats good to look out for on an exercise bike?

Unless you are spending £2000 and/or don't have a bike to use, a smart trainer would be a lot better.

The latest bikes are amazing, really amazing. Wattbike Atom, KICKR Bike, Stages bike, Neo etc, but they are £2500/3000.

Getting a decent smart trainer and putting you bike on it will give 80% of the results.

The old Atom is "only" £1600 at the moment which seems pretty good value compared to £1000-£1200 for a top-end smart trainer. The advantage is it doesn't wear your existing bike, the bars won't get sweaty, it won't need adjustment/maintenance, it won't collect dust/dirt or throw out crud from the chain.

Big win for the stand alone bikes.....and they tend to be quieter which is an even bigger win!!

[Ares]

WestyCarl said:

Ares said:

WestyCarl said:

Ares said:

Tim O said:

Ares said:

Getting a decent smart trainer and putting you bike on it will give 80% of the results.

I’d have said more like 95%.

I've just gone from a KICKR to KICKR Bike.....there's easily 20%

Ultimately it's just something that gives you resistance. Most wheel off trainers (£500+) are as accurate as "the all in one soltuions".

Ultimately comes down to convienience and personal preferance.

I wasn't just talking accuracy though....!

As i I said it's ultimately a resistance machine and really comes down to personal preferance. (unless I've missed somethig else the KICR bike does to give the 20%)

If all you want in a resistance machine, you can spend under £100 and get a non-smart one. Smart trainers up the game. Bikes up the game even more.

[Ares]

okgo said:

Ares said:

There is a difference between the Original (now called Pro) and the Atom. The former is more accurate, but still overheads compared to my on-bike PMs.

Power is always largely subjective though, and only really useful as a personal comparative/analytical tool.

The point I make is that if the machine is working correctly, it will be more accurate than what's on your bike.

If thats the case, all on bike PMs under-read by 10-40%

As I say, a friend with a (first gen) Atom has an FTP from there of 310w and regularly completes rides with an ave power of 270/280w....but only averages 28-30kph when I and others of our similar weights will ave 34-36kph whilst averaging 210w.

[WestyCarl]

Ares said:

If all you want in a resistance machine, you can spend under £100 and get a non-smart one. Smart trainers up the game. Bikes up the game even more.

Agree, but at the base level even smart trainers are just resistance machines (all be it automatic and more accurate)

I'm not being argumentative but how do Smart Bikes up the game even more compared to a wheel off smart trainer?

[Tim O]

WestyCarl said:

Agree, but at the base level even smart trainers are just resistance machines (all be it automatic and more accurate)

I'm not being argumentative but how do Smart Bikes up the game even more compared to a wheel off smart trainer?

I’m not being argumentative either, but IMO they don’t.

Kickr Climb or Kickr Wind? A solution looking for a problem that nobody has.

[Mastodon2]

Gareth79 said:

The old Atom is "only" £1600 at the moment which seems pretty good value compared to £1000-£1200 for a top-end smart trainer. The advantage is it doesn't wear your existing bike, the bars won't get sweaty, it won't need adjustment/maintenance, it won't collect dust/dirt or throw out crud from the chain.

Even if you take the bottom end figure of £1000, how much indoor riding would you have to do to run up a grand of repair and maintenance bills on a wheel-off turbo trainer set up?

That is a lot of chains, chainrings, cassettes and lube.

As mentioned, you do sweat a tonne in indoor riding, I just put a towel over the bars. I'd probably still swap some fresh bar tape on if I was making a long term switch of which bike was on the trainer. So that's £20 for some new bar tape. Only £980 left in the kitty.

[g7jhp]

I'm usually all year round outdoors on my road ride circa 4,000+ miles (coming from running).

Had a Fluid Magnetic wheel on dumb trainer which I just found boring.

Decided to go down the smart turbo route. Ended up with:

- Tacx Neo 2
- Samsung Smart TV (Smart Mirror)
- Samsung S10 with Smart Mirror
- Zwift
- Garmin Bluetooth Ant+ HRM
- Cleva AirMaster Air Mover (Wind)

Zwift is really engaging with a Tacx Neo (wheel off) and gives resistance up and down hills as well as vibrations as you go over cobbles.

Consider how you link Zwift to your TV ( I do Screen Mirror).

I've found you sweat buckets so just got an air blower (today) to keep me cool.

The races are fun and it really pushes you to keep up and gain the draft which can be hard.

Been out every morning for circa 30+ miles in lockdown now up to over 7,000 miles so I can continue to ride throughout the winter.

Edited by g7jhp on Tuesday 6th October 21:26

[UpTheIron]

I've tried static bikes and turbo's but find the absolutely static nature (no side to side) a killer compared to real riding.

Aside from rollers and a likelihood of some comedy but nasty ending, what options are there? I've see turbo's that offer lean and "wobble boards". Are either any good?

[defblade]

UpTheIron said:

I've tried static bikes and turbo's but find the absolutely static nature (no side to side) a killer compared to real riding.

Aside from rollers and a likelihood of some comedy but nasty ending, what options are there? I've see turbo's that offer lean and "wobble boards". Are either any good?

Try joining Rocker plates on FB for lots of info.

Personally, I've cut up a £7 camping mat and put 4 layers under the main body of my Saris H3, and rolled some up under each leg (needed more on the RHS to balance properly) and I do find it makes a significant difference, especially to the longer rides. It does tend to cause the "lean the wrong way while out of the saddle" problem... but it's cheap I've also found it's possible to over-balance if I try and honk really hard on the pedals standing with my elbows locked - no problem so long as they're bent and I'm using my core more.

[J4CKO]

Ares said:

J4CKO said:

Anyone a convert ?

I have always thought Turbo Trainers look a bit pointless, may as well just go out for a ride which I appreciate gets more difficult this time of the year onwards, like tonight was going to go out but it was lashing down, so do I get one and set it up in my man shed ? Its not like I am "in training" for anything, just need to occasionally get some exercise and am avoiding the gym even more than usual.

Zwift looks good but might be a flash in the pan with me, is it much better than just a bike on a TT ?

Peleton, the adverts are just vomit inducing and its expensive, but get past that, its probably pretty good.

Anyone gone from sceptical to the Turbo trainer being their favourite thing ?

Edited by J4CKO on Monday 5th October 19:28

I'm a full Zwift convert.

Of the 25,000km I've ridden this year, at least half have been on Zwift. Great training sessions, group rides, or just spinning away.

I do 60-90mins every morning....Zwift certainly isn't a flash in a pan!!

I still prefer outdoors, but a lot of time, outdoors doesn't fit with life very well to get a good level of training in....especially with UK/NW weather!!

I couldn't imagine the turbo without Zwift.

If you are going to use it, make sure you have a smart trainer as minimum. I had a Wahoo KICKR for 4years, now upgraded to a KICKR Bike. Fantastic realism.


Peleton is a different proposition - it isn't like bike riding, it's like a spin class. It is a bloody great product, fantastic concept, but it isn't cycle training.

Good god man you spend some cash and seemingly never sleep.

Three grand on an exercise bike, I am still getting my head round a grand for a thing you stick your bike in so it doesn't go anywhere !

At least you do get a lot of use out of it, most exercise bikes seem to be a way to hang clothes.

[anonymous-user]

UpTheIron said:

I've tried static bikes and turbo's but find the absolutely static nature (no side to side) a killer compared to real riding.

Aside from rollers and a likelihood of some comedy but nasty ending, what options are there? I've see turbo's that offer lean and "wobble boards". Are either any good?

I’d be surprised if you can’t get to grips with rollers with a few sessions, they are no nearly as bad as people make out and you just need to concentrate for a while when first using them. You will fall off but just make sure you either have a strap to grab suspended above or something soft to fall on. After three or four rides, you won’t fall off. There are always a few for sale on eBay, the elite parabolic rollers are good and have raised lips to stop you wobbling off but after a bit, you’ll just use the two inches in the middle.

I love the rollers, I think they are so much more effective at working your core compared to turbo trainers.

[okgo]

Re rocker plates, I know a few people with them on various trainer set ups, wattbikes, kickr etc, the verdict is only ever a huge thumbs up.

[Comacchio]

Tim O said:

I’m not being argumentative either, but IMO they don’t.

Kickr Climb or Kickr Wind? A solution looking for a problem that nobody has.

Have you tried the Headwind? Very good bit of kit.

[okgo]

Comacchio said:

Have you tried the Headwind? Very good bit of kit.

At 200 quid its mental though.

Everyone I know uses these - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082FGRX6B/ref=cm_sw_r...

Probably is as if not more powerful than the kickr one and you can buy one for each side for half the cost.

[Comacchio]

okgo said:

At 200 quid its mental though.

Everyone I know uses these - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082FGRX6B/ref=cm_sw_r...

Probably is as if not more powerful than the kickr one and you can buy one for each side for half the cost.

Worth it. Controllable via bluetooth, can be controlled via heartrate, wheel speed, 4 different speeds or manually by a slider on the Wahoo app. The number of times I've forgotten to turn the fan on before riding...

[g7jhp]

Comacchio said:

okgo said:

At 200 quid its mental though.

Everyone I know uses these - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082FGRX6B/ref=cm_sw_r...

Probably is as if not more powerful than the kickr one and you can buy one for each side for half the cost.

Worth it. Controllable via bluetooth, can be controlled via heartrate, wheel speed, 4 different speeds or manually by a slider on the Wahoo app. The number of times I've forgotten to turn the fan on before riding...

I've just got an Air Mover. Fantastic.

And £59.99 if you go direct and use code: GS10

I have the lead next to me at waist height so I can plug it in as I get hot. You could get a bluebooth socket if you want to do it via phone.

Edited by g7jhp on Wednesday 7th October 19:52

[J4CKO]

Ok, placed my order on the Wahoo website, says 2 or 3 weeks, must be loads of middle aged tubbers wanting to sweat away in their garages and pay a grand for the honour

Will sort out the bits as I go,

Will use my normal road bike for now, though know where there is an old Claud Butler going spare, that said, not got space in there for a permanent setup really and dont want it down the garden in my cabin as its a Treck (Trek ?) down there and I like my bike in the garage for quick access.

Cassette, I'm on a 10 speed, this comes with an 11, so guess I need to either upgrade my groupset to 11 speed or put a 10 speed casssette on it, the latter sounds cheaper.

Sort the sensors side out.

Got a small desk fan inverted under the shelves, amazingly in the best position, should do for now, got bigger ones I can "draft" in.

Computer with a 24 inch monitor in there already, again in the right spot on the face of it



Beer fridge next to it all....

[Comacchio]

J4CKO said:

Ok, placed my order on the Wahoo...

Beer fridge next to it all....

Sounds ideal! Haven’t read the full thread - what did you go for?

Whilst our new house is being built I’ve taken over the living room at my folk’s house... mother is none too happy!





Our plan is to have the turbo set up permanently in the garage and just change the height on the saddle when my fiancée wants to use it.

[Ares]

WestyCarl said:

Ares said:

If all you want in a resistance machine, you can spend under £100 and get a non-smart one. Smart trainers up the game. Bikes up the game even more.

Agree, but at the base level even smart trainers are just resistance machines (all be it automatic and more accurate)

I'm not being argumentative but how do Smart Bikes up the game even more compared to a wheel off smart trainer?

Feel, ride, smoothness, flexibility, simplicity, integration, cleanliness, responsiveness and quietness. (and for the KICKR Bike, elevation).