100 mile record attempt: today

[okgo]

Ares said:

Mid-300s for 2.5/3.0 hours though...??

He's know for being about to hold 40kph for an hour at about 180-200w.

With a high 300's FTP, yes, I'd imagine his FTP is 380-390w.

Who is know for that?

[Ares]

okgo said:

Ares said:

Mid-300s for 2.5/3.0 hours though...??

He's know for being about to hold 40kph for an hour at about 180-200w.

With a high 300's FTP, yes, I'd imagine his FTP is 380-390w.

Who is know for that?

Dan. On track though.

He also did 52.6km in an hour with a 357w. Aside from that being slower than today's 100mile, and on track so less friction but without the tailwind, I'm not sure he could hold that for 2.5/3x as long??

[okgo]

Ares said:

Dan. On track though.

He also did 52.6km in an hour with a 357w. Aside from that being slower than today's 100mile, and on track so less friction but without the tailwind, I'm not sure he could hold that for 2.5/3x as long??

Most folks are a fair bit down on track than outside for heat, and also the banking, but I don't know what his gap from road to time trial is, it might be a fair bit given his position. I remember him doing a few more watts up Col De Rates than me, so just used where I thought my FTP was vs his and 380-390 seemed reasonable. Anyway, the point remains, one of the top national riders would be good to see do this I think, he, Archibald, Fennel, all would probably take a big chunk off this, but not sure why I've never even heard its a thing to do!

[Tim O]

okgo said:

The bloke did 270w last time, Ganna probably takes half an hour off this time

Be interesting if one of the quicker national riders has a go, can see it appealing to Dan Bigham, prob do mid 300's and very slippery. But I do think having seen the twitter videos that most people would say its too dangerous. But I'm sure some of the time trials I've done over the years probably aren't much different traffic wise.

I’d have said Jon Shubert IS one of the quicker national riders. He’s ridden the 5th fastest ever 100mile time trial last year, out and back course, 3h 19m 58s.

[okgo]

Tim O said:

I’d have said Jon Shubert IS one of the quicker national riders. He’s ridden the 5th fastest ever 100mile time trial last year, out and back course, 3h 19m 58s.

That's true, though for whatever reasons, the longer the time trial the less strength in depth there is in the all time lists, same rider is 24th in the 50 list, and barely features in the 25 and isn't in the 10 list at all. I maintain that any of the guys who are right at the sharp end of the national 25/50 would really take some lumps out of that, but as said above I do think it's probably not for everyone given those roads.

[anonymous-user]

If you wanted to set an RRA record, you would get a trike tandem and make a mixed pair

Or look at some of the less common place to place routes

http://www.rra.org.uk/index.html

[Tim O]

okgo said:

That's true, though for whatever reasons, the longer the time trial the less strength in depth there is in the all time lists, same rider is 24th in the 50 list, and barely features in the 25 and isn't in the 10 list at all. I maintain that any of the guys who are right at the sharp end of the national 25/50 would really take some lumps out of that, but as said above I do think it's probably not for everyone given those roads.

Different distances, different animals, different physiology. Jon Shubert has never shone at short distance TT’s, the longer the distance the better he goes. I think he was National 12 or 24 hour champion a couple of years back. Adam Topham of HWCC (winner of National BAR TT competition) was the same.

I was talking to woman I know (2nd or 3rd in nats 25) who was really peed off when she hot her arse handed to her in a short road race, her first. “I was miles the strongest, miles the fastest, but they killed me”. She had one pace only, just couldn’t cope with change of pace. Different physiology.

Plenty of pro riders would decimate the UK’s best short distance TT’s, but 50miles and further , they’d struggle, wrong training, wrong physiology.

Edited by Tim O on Tuesday 3rd November 12:01

Edited by Tim O on Tuesday 3rd November 12:05

[okgo]

Tim O said:

Different distances, different animals, different physiology. Jon Shubert has never shone at short distance TT’s, the longer the distance the better he goes. I think he was National 12 or 24 hour champion a couple of years back. Adam Topham of HWCC (winner of National BAR TT competition) was the same.

I was talking to woman I know (2nd or 3rd in nats 25) who was really peed off when she hot her arse handed to her in a short road race, her first. “I was miles the strongest, miles the fastest, but they killed me”. She had one pace only, just couldn’t cope with change of pace. Different physiology.

Plenty of pro riders would decimate the UK’s best short distance TT’s, but 50miles and further , they’d struggle, wrong training, wrong physiology.

Edited by Tim O on Tuesday 3rd November 12:01

Edited by Tim O on Tuesday 3rd November 12:05

I actually don't agree, and not just to be difficult, for me it is still about participation, the long time trials get nothing like the entry or interest that the shorter ones do. For conventional distances, 10/25/50/100 the fastest guy at the shortest is likely also fastest at the longest, it's just whether he entered or not.

Tops was very quick over shorter time trials as well, I know as I raced him plenty of times.

Re your woman, I also know a nat champ woman fairly well, she also won road races, and hill climbs, it didn't seem to hinder her, she was never going to win a bunch sprint, but anything else was fine. More likely, is that she wasn't the strongest, but perhaps thought she was because of the limited competition in TT, again, because in women's cycling where there's still limited depth, probably the best time trialist hasn't yet bothered to do a time trial, that was proved by the lady I know easily winning national TT competitions without really having to train all that much for them beyond just riding her road bike.

I've ridden road races with multiple riders who are out and out testers, and what is true of them generally is that they don't have much of a jump, one of the strongest riders I know probably can't break 1000W, he has won fking loads of road races, namely by picking his moment and riding off, doing what he does best. Richard Prebble who I raced with a lot the same, not much of a kick, but still won a bunch of races even into his 40's by using what he WAS good at, which was time trialing, as you'll know.

Re your pro rider comment, that's just not the case. A pro rider will have the ability to do far more power, for far longer than almost any amateur, because for one, they have the engine, and for two, they train more than almost any amateur. A good example of that is Marcin Biablocki, he took every single distance CR despite being a road racer, because he had the engine that was far superior, and also had the base from doing endless 20 hour weeks as a pro cyclist. If you want more examples go and look at the power Ganna was putting out for 6 hour stages, it's ridiculous, and would destroy any amateur at any distance.

What I will concede is that it takes a certain person to be able to mentally do those 12/24hr type events, I raced plenty with James Hayden who has won various long distance ultra races (transcon a couple of times), he was a decent road racer with a fairly normal looking power profile (for a cat 1 racer, more slow twitch than fast still) what he had that others don't was the ability to keep pushing on when his body didn't want any more. That is certainly what puts a lot of people off the longer stuff IMO. That and the stories you hear of people that never really recover from those events.

I have done a couple of 300km rides, I did them with someone who on paper had a far better background for such things having done very long audaxes and the like. But ultimately, someone with a decent engine, and years of miles under their belt is going to be quick over any distance, its whether they have the brain to stomach it, as such in the final miles of both events I was still pulling as hard as he was despite the fact I rode over 6 hours perhaps once in my 8 years riding beforehand.

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 12:38

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 12:43

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 12:44

[Ares]

okgo said:

I have done a couple of 300km rides, I did them with someone who on paper had a far better background for such things having done very long audaxes and the like. But ultimately, someone with a decent engine, and years of miles under their belt is going to be quick over any distance, its whether they have the brain to stomach it, as such in the final miles of both events I was still pulling as hard as he was despite the fact I rode over 6 hours perhaps once in my 8 years riding beforehand.

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 12:38

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 12:43

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 12:44

That kind of distance is a very different though. I've done a few 350km, power is usually fairly low, it's more mental and the ability to get into a set rhythm.

Plenty of guys with FTPs 50-100w higher than mine did it, that streaked ahead in the early hours, but we soon reeled them in once we got over 200km. My power was low, but fairly steady from the first 10km to the last 10km.

[okgo]

Ares said:

That kind of distance is a very different though. I've done a few 350km, power is usually fairly low, it's more mental and the ability to get into a set rhythm.

Plenty of guys with FTPs 50-100w higher than mine did it, that streaked ahead in the early hours, but we soon reeled them in once we got over 200km. My power was low, but fairly steady from the first 10km to the last 10km.

What's your point?

My point was that I didn't do long rides, my buddy who was strong did, I was fine because I had tens of thousands of miles base, and a decent engine, we were both fairly evenly matched. He potentially would have been able to do more the following day however given he'd ridden that distance many more times.

[Ares]

okgo said:

Ares said:

That kind of distance is a very different though. I've done a few 350km, power is usually fairly low, it's more mental and the ability to get into a set rhythm.

Plenty of guys with FTPs 50-100w higher than mine did it, that streaked ahead in the early hours, but we soon reeled them in once we got over 200km. My power was low, but fairly steady from the first 10km to the last 10km.

What's your point?

My point was that I didn't do long rides, my buddy who was strong did, I was fine because I had tens of thousands of miles base, and a decent engine, we were both fairly evenly matched. He potentially would have been able to do more the following day however given he'd ridden that distance many more times.

I was merely adding to a discussion..... Not every post has to be 'making a point'.

IMO an hour is very different from a 160km which is very different again from a 350km.

Few people are nails on at all three, unless they have a £6-figure pro contract.

[anonymous-user]

It isn’t a done deal that a top pro could take such a record

I remember the hype about Wiggins coming to the V718 to ride the Hull City RC 10 in 2015. He was going to smash the record apparently.

And he came at it very seriously. It was about 3 weeks before he did the hour record, so he was obviously in good shape

But he only managed a 17’58” versus the 17’20” record as it was then

It has to go right for them on the day

[okgo]

JPJPJP said:

It isn’t a done deal that a top pro could take such a record

I remember the hype about Wiggins coming to the V718 to ride the Hull City RC 10 in 2015. He was going to smash the record apparently.

And he came at it very seriously. It was about 3 weeks before he did the hour record, so he was obviously in good shape

But he only managed a 17’58” versus the 17’20” record as it was then

It has to go right for them on the day

Due to the weather, yes. Much like his hour record on the day he did it. Given you can do this whenever you see the wind is high, I think it's very different.

There's no doubt on this planet that Wiggins wasn't better than whoever held that record at the time. But as proved by many of the all time lists, even average riders can catch amazing days and go seriously fast. I had one of my worst 25 mile time trials on the day I set my best ever time, the conditions were very very quick.

Anyway, rather than answer more mindless tangents of Ares, I'll wait to see Tim respond.

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 13:47

[anonymous-user]

okgo said:

Due to the weather, yes. Much like his hour record on the day he did it. Given you can do this whenever you see the wind is high, I think it's very different.

There's no doubt on this planet that Wiggins wasn't better than whoever held that record at the time. But as proved by many of the all time lists, even average riders can catch amazing days and go seriously fast. I had one of my worst 25 mile time trials on the day I set my best ever time, the conditions were very very quick.

Anyway, rather than answer more mindless tangents of Ares, I'll wait to see Tim respond.

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 13:47

The 10 record was held by Alex Dowsett at the time. There is always an element of 'the day' in the mix. In the case of this 100, the fact that he was riding through puddles on his previous attempt is probably what prompted JS to have another go yesterday. If he had done a sub 3h ride on 21 Oct, I don't he think would have been out again yesterday.

[Tim O]

We could discuss all day, all guesswork and theory, but Adam Topham has never ridden a fast 10!

[okgo]

Tim O said:

We could discuss all day, all guesswork and theory, but Adam Topham has never ridden a fast 10!

He's done a short 19 according to CTT, I remember it was him I needed to end up beating in my local event as he did it every year, and I was doing 18's on fast courses then. So while he may not have ridden the fast courses, he was easily capable of riding an 18 min 10.

[Tim O]

okgo said:

He's done a short 19 according to CTT, I remember it was him I needed to end up beating in my local event as he did it every year, and I was doing 18's on fast courses then. So while he may not have ridden the fast courses, he was easily capable of riding an 18 min 10.

200 riders have ridden under 19m ins for a ten. So he was a good, but far from the best at that distance, but an exceptional distance tester.

But I partially agree with you. In Topham's case, I think mental strength is what made him so good.

[okgo]

Tim O said:

200 riders have ridden under 19m ins for a ten. So he was a good, but far from the best at that distance, but an exceptional distance tester.

But I partially agree with you. In Topham's case, I think mental strength is what made him so good.

Yeh I know, but I'm talking about years ago when doing an 18 was still actually decent. He used to do a 4 hour turbo every saturday at 90% FTP or something, most people couldn't dream of being able to stomach that.

[Ares]

okgo said:

Anyway, rather than answer more mindless tangents of Ares, I'll wait to see Tim respond.

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd November 13:47

Feel free to ignore them (they weren't questions?) I would hate to obfuscate with 'mindless tangents'.

[Tim O]

okgo said:

Yeh I know, but I'm talking about years ago when doing an 18 was still actually decent. He used to do a 4 hour turbo every saturday at 90% FTP or something, most people couldn't dream of being able to stomach that.

It wasn’t years ago, he quit, what, 3 or 4 years back?

Yep, 4 hour turbo sessions, in his garden in the dark. See my comment about mental strength. I don’t think he actually liked cycling, but recognised he was good at it and competitive desire took over.

In Topham's case, I think mental strength is what made him so good

But to the subject, in my opinion, yes you need big power, but you don’t need the biggest power, but you need to be able to deliver what you have for a long time. Some can do this, some can not.

PS in my book 18 mins for a ten is much, much better than decent. I’d be pleased to break evens these days.

Edited by Tim O on Tuesday 3rd November 17:36