100 mile record attempt: today
Discussion
As in, in 2013/14 doing an 18 was still quite respectable, I only really raced Adam on H10/8, winning the xmas event with short 20 at first, then down into the 19's, then finally did an 18 on it maybe 4 or so years later. Now I think probably every ten someone goes and does that, nobody had done an 18 on there for years and years. It's all changed now.
Surely a big thing with 12/24h TTs is that they require a particular mindset to even want to do one. So even if okgo is right and any top 25mile TT rider "could" go faster than a typical 12h rider, the fact that they don't, for whatever reason, bother, tells me that the people who win 12h events fully deserve to do so. Just saying "I could go faster than you if I could be arsed to ride for 12 hours" doesn't really cut it.
The different distances obviously have different power profiles - the 12's and 24's are really interesting from a pacing perspective. I'm much better comparatively over 24hrs miles than I am over 10 
Worth looking up Andy Jackson - successes include winning the 6, 12 and 24hr Worlds. I think he's got an FTP somewhere around 390W but he can hold a high percentage of that for hours. His 24hr TT is a higher average than my 12.
I'm going to sit on the fence with the comments above - there are people who have the physical capability but not the mental (or the desire), there are people with the mental and not the physical. Then there are those with both and neither.
On a 24 or multi day, the real test is when something goes wrong - how resilient is the rider to a curveball. Last years' WTTC24 was held a couple of weeks later than usual, as such, the temperatures overnight that are usually around 12C dropped to freezing point. It was hideous, and completely unexpected and half the field vanished in the wee hours because they just couldn't cut riding in the cold.
Worth looking up Andy Jackson - successes include winning the 6, 12 and 24hr Worlds. I think he's got an FTP somewhere around 390W but he can hold a high percentage of that for hours. His 24hr TT is a higher average than my 12.
I'm going to sit on the fence with the comments above - there are people who have the physical capability but not the mental (or the desire), there are people with the mental and not the physical. Then there are those with both and neither.
On a 24 or multi day, the real test is when something goes wrong - how resilient is the rider to a curveball. Last years' WTTC24 was held a couple of weeks later than usual, as such, the temperatures overnight that are usually around 12C dropped to freezing point. It was hideous, and completely unexpected and half the field vanished in the wee hours because they just couldn't cut riding in the cold.
Do bear in mind that this conversation started with a 3 hour event. Someone good for 1 hour is good for 3, without question. Bialoblocki proved it mattered not about physiology for conventional distances.
Any good pro cyclist will be better than any amateur upto perhaps a very very long event, but even then some of them have a mindset that is far beyond your average amateur because they do it as a job, and it's hard.
And to prove that in reverse Jacko is decent at short stuff too, though I personally always thought his power-meter overread.
Yes, perhaps it doesn't cut it, I cba to enter, you're right. But scientifically speaking I would imagine if the best riders of the shorter events did ride, they'd go quicker, taking the mental side out of it.
Any good pro cyclist will be better than any amateur upto perhaps a very very long event, but even then some of them have a mindset that is far beyond your average amateur because they do it as a job, and it's hard.
And to prove that in reverse Jacko is decent at short stuff too, though I personally always thought his power-meter overread.
Yes, perhaps it doesn't cut it, I cba to enter, you're right. But scientifically speaking I would imagine if the best riders of the shorter events did ride, they'd go quicker, taking the mental side out of it.
If anyone can be bothered to dig in
A direct comparison of the times JS and MB did on the section of the A11 common to both their routes on their record rides could be made
MB set the CTT record on b100/4 which isn't an out & back course in the most usual sense of time trials: it goes out, back (and a bit), out, (almost) back
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-results/...
JS used that part of the A11
Also, in the only 100 that I can find where JS and MB both rode, the indication is that MB was considerably quicker on that day in June 2019, but he was DQ'd,
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-report/1...
JS posted 3h30'10" to finish 7th behind the official winner's 3h24'42"
MB finished in 3h23'53" but had gone off course and performed a dangerous manoeuvre in doing so
A direct comparison of the times JS and MB did on the section of the A11 common to both their routes on their record rides could be made
MB set the CTT record on b100/4 which isn't an out & back course in the most usual sense of time trials: it goes out, back (and a bit), out, (almost) back
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-results/...
JS used that part of the A11
Also, in the only 100 that I can find where JS and MB both rode, the indication is that MB was considerably quicker on that day in June 2019, but he was DQ'd,
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-report/1...
JS posted 3h30'10" to finish 7th behind the official winner's 3h24'42"
MB finished in 3h23'53" but had gone off course and performed a dangerous manoeuvre in doing so
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 4th November 11:20
okgo said:
Someone good for 1 hour is good for 3, without question. .
This is true.... but someone unbeatable at 1hr ins't necessarily unbeatable at 3hrs...and vice-versa.I know riders that are immense at a 50km TT, but fall off a cliff in their competitiveness at even double that, let alone 3x and over.
Ares said:
okgo said:
Someone good for 1 hour is good for 3, without question. .
This is true.... but someone unbeatable at 1hr ins't necessarily unbeatable at 3hrs...and vice-versa.I know riders that are immense at a 50km TT, but fall off a cliff in their competitiveness at even double that, let alone 3x and over.
Ares said:
okgo said:
Someone good for 1 hour is good for 3, without question. .
This is true.... but someone unbeatable at 1hr ins't necessarily unbeatable at 3hrs...and vice-versa.I know riders that are immense at a 50km TT, but fall off a cliff in their competitiveness at even double that, let alone 3x and over.
The best efforts are as follows:
Oct 27th 2019 - 400W/5 min. OUCC Hill Climb, max effort.
May 28th 2020 - 290W/52 min. "FTP test" up Alpe du Zwift, max effort again.
Nov 2nd 2019 - 150W/10h. Upper Thames Audax. (180W/200W weighted ignoring breaks?)
Aug 9th 2020 - 130W/16h. Everesting Alpe du Zwift. (150W/168W weighted)
Dec 28th 2019 - 100W/18h. Full Fat Festive 500 Audax, bonked at 300 km. (124W/141W weighted)
I don't have any all out efforts with power data above 1h, although those long rides were hugely tiring... I can't really say that they were all out. The everesting stands out, but I could have gone on a bit further with the right motivation.
outnumbered said:
You're right, but also people tend to set PBs on dual carriageways with favourable conditions, so it's not that different.
That's trueSome would say that start times on the V718 were set with more than half an eye on how long it took the trucks coming off the ferry at Hull to get onto the return leg of the course. A line of artics passing you all the way up the last 6 miles is quite a help.
JPJPJP said:
That's true
Some would say that start times on the V718 were set with more than half an eye on how long it took the trucks coming off the ferry at Hull to get onto the return leg of the course. A line of artics passing you all the way up the last 6 miles is quite a help.
Of course, and that is kind of the issue with time trials and why its hard to compare riders that don't race each other often, I never really had a clue about half of a national field as they never did races near me.Some would say that start times on the V718 were set with more than half an eye on how long it took the trucks coming off the ferry at Hull to get onto the return leg of the course. A line of artics passing you all the way up the last 6 miles is quite a help.
That said, the TT is on a set day, you don't just get to choose when you go for the record based on the weather. As Wiggins found out on V718.
outnumbered said:
You're right, but also people tend to set PBs on dual carriageways with favourable conditions, so it's not that different.
I don't think there are any 1-way TTs, so if there's a big tailwind in one direction, you'll get a big headwind in the other. This Shubert guy's 10TT PB is high 19s and yet he managed 10 of them at 17:48 for the record...okgo said:
It mostly isn't physiology as much as it is training. Most people don't train for longer events, Marcin was incredible over all distances because he was used to doing 5 hour road races.
100% training.Racers racing for 4 hours typically cruise for 75%+, and hit FTP+ for minutes. Hence why most riders on GT stages usually have comparatively modest ave power.
1hr TT is high power for the full hour.
AyBee said:
I don't think there are any 1-way TTs, so if there's a big tailwind in one direction, you'll get a big headwind in the other.
CTT courses have specific rules about how far the start can be from the finish, so no one way courses... But loads of lorries make DC courses faster, and some courses are arranged to have gift downhill sections (e.g. the 10 courses on the Marlow & Tring bypasses). I'm just saying that seeking favourable conditions for a record or PB isn't unknown in any branch of the sport. Anyone looking to break a TT comp record isn't going to do it on some B-road sporting course.outnumbered said:
AyBee said:
I don't think there are any 1-way TTs, so if there's a big tailwind in one direction, you'll get a big headwind in the other.
CTT courses have specific rules about how far the start can be from the finish, so no one way courses... But loads of lorries make DC courses faster, and some courses are arranged to have gift downhill sections (e.g. the 10 courses on the Marlow & Tring bypasses). I'm just saying that seeking favourable conditions for a record or PB isn't unknown in any branch of the sport. Anyone looking to break a TT comp record isn't going to do it on some B-road sporting course.outnumbered said:
AyBee said:
I don't think there are any 1-way TTs, so if there's a big tailwind in one direction, you'll get a big headwind in the other.
CTT courses have specific rules about how far the start can be from the finish, so no one way courses... But loads of lorries make DC courses faster, and some courses are arranged to have gift downhill sections (e.g. the 10 courses on the Marlow & Tring bypasses). I'm just saying that seeking favourable conditions for a record or PB isn't unknown in any branch of the sport. Anyone looking to break a TT comp record isn't going to do it on some B-road sporting course.
but you're racing others, so if you have good conditions, it's likely that everyone else did too which is helpful to indicate how well you're going. A one way record just serves to indicate how strong the wind was blowing and nothing about how good the person setting the record actually is. Shubert did a 100TT back in early September and came 4th, so there are definitely other amateurs quicker than him over the distance.Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff