Any Peloton bike users here?
Discussion
Chris Stott said:
But I'm not sure why 'serious cyclists' get so worked up about them... a Peloton isn't about cycling, it's about health and fitness... the only similarity is the use of pedaling. The vast majority of Peloton users have no interest in 'real' cycling and certainly don't want an old push bike on rollers in their spare bedroom/home gym.
Surely anything that gets people exercising and improves their health is a good thing.
Yeah, it's home spin classes for people that like spin classes. Which is fine.Surely anything that gets people exercising and improves their health is a good thing.
The first that most cyclists heard about Peloton was when they were firing out cease & desist letters at anyone using the common and long-used cycling term "peloton". Unsurprisingly that caused a lot of ill feeling.
okgo said:
The whole platform is a waste of time if the numbers aren't broadly correct, and repeatable, your calories burned, your supposed fitness increases/decreases, everything. Moving your legs is better than not, I agree, just seems peculiar to me to build an eco system against something that isn't uniform.
It's not that I particularly care, just don't want to see others buy into it expecting x when they're really getting why thanks to fanboyism.
But your'e not jumping on different bikes all the time. I have one in my spare bedroom and that is the only one i use. Therefore if it's inaccurate, I don't give a sIt's not that I particularly care, just don't want to see others buy into it expecting x when they're really getting why thanks to fanboyism.
t. Because i'm only comparing to myself. I'm trying to improve myself, not get to the top of the leaderboard....It's worth making sure that you have your correct weight in the settings as well...... especially if your'e loosing weight!!
And Gangzoom, if you're really interested and know a bit of Python (or I guess any other language) You can hack into the peleton API and get all the data, ie all the data from individual rides. After all, the bikes, phone apps, website all use the standard Peleton API.
Also, Gangzoom, Does your misses just do one type of exercise or is she doing cycling, yoga, pilates all of which would have a different heart rate profile????
okgo said:
The whole platform is a waste of time if the numbers aren't broadly correct, and repeatable, your calories burned, your supposed fitness increases/decreases, everything. Moving your legs is better than not, I agree, just seems peculiar to me to build an eco system against something that isn't uniform.
It's not that I particularly care, just don't want to see others buy into it expecting x when they're really getting why thanks to fanboyism.
As Super7 says, you're riding your own bike, so you measure your progress by how your own numbers change over time... your output (watts) doesn't need to be 100% accurate for that. And if you have a bike + you're good as that has a power meter.It's not that I particularly care, just don't want to see others buy into it expecting x when they're really getting why thanks to fanboyism.
My experience (from the various SM groups I'm a member of) is that physically (gender/age/weight/fitness level), there is no typical Peloton owner. The only real common theme is they love the motivation of the classes, which isn't available (at least to the same standard) on other platforms.
The apparent disinterest of 'I don't particularly care' comes across as fake when you use of words like 'toy' and 'fanboyism'. Drop the superiority complex.... My 52 YO wife hasn't been on a pushbike for the best part of 40 years but she'd destroy the vast majority of MAMIL when it comes to w/kg.
okgo said:
The whole platform is a waste of time if the numbers aren't broadly correct, and repeatable, your calories burned, your supposed fitness increases/decreases, everything. Moving your legs is better than not, I agree, just seems peculiar to me to build an eco system against something that isn't uniform.
You miss the whole point of the correlation data I was looking at. There is very few instruments around that is 100% accurate and 100% repeatable. Indeed without benchmarking to an external source no instrument is every going to be 100% accurate, and for most people in a consumer environment the purist of 100% accuracy is an un-needed expense.
What's far more important is reliable data, even if its not accurate it certainly doesn't matter for most consumers, I would argue having reliable inaccurate data is more important than unreliable accurate date. Its like zero a gun sight, its easier to correct for consistent miss than to try and correct for inconsistent miss.
With a R figure of nearly 0.8 for my HR vs reported output demonstrate very very good reliability. Therefore what I cannot explain (and still cannot) is why the same R figure for my wife is so poor. Its very unlikely to the equipment (HR monitor or bike), so there is another variable unaccounted.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 27th January 16:22
super7 said:
And Gangzoom, if you're really interested and know a bit of Python (or I guess any other language) You can hack into the peleton API and get all the data, ie all the data from individual rides. After all, the bikes, phone apps, website all use the standard Peleton API.
Also, Gangzoom, Does your misses just do one type of exercise or is she doing cycling, yoga, pilates all of which would have a different heart rate profile????
Cannot do Python and haven't got the time to learn it. The HR is only used in conjunction with the bike, so honestly no idea whats going on there. The correlation really should be linear, like my data, but its not. Also, Gangzoom, Does your misses just do one type of exercise or is she doing cycling, yoga, pilates all of which would have a different heart rate profile????
Chris Stott said:
As Super7 says, you're riding your own bike, so you measure your progress by how your own numbers change over time... your output (watts) doesn't need to be 100% accurate for that. And if you have a bike + you're good as that has a power meter.
My experience (from the various SM groups I'm a member of) is that physically (gender/age/weight/fitness level), there is no typical Peloton owner. The only real common theme is they love the motivation of the classes, which isn't available (at least to the same standard) on other platforms.
The apparent disinterest of 'I don't particularly care' comes across as fake when you use of words like 'toy' and 'fanboyism'. Drop the superiority complex.... My 52 YO wife hasn't been on a pushbike for the best part o40 years but she'd destroy the vast majority of MAMIL when it comes to w/kg.
How would you know. The numbers won’t be correct My experience (from the various SM groups I'm a member of) is that physically (gender/age/weight/fitness level), there is no typical Peloton owner. The only real common theme is they love the motivation of the classes, which isn't available (at least to the same standard) on other platforms.
The apparent disinterest of 'I don't particularly care' comes across as fake when you use of words like 'toy' and 'fanboyism'. Drop the superiority complex.... My 52 YO wife hasn't been on a pushbike for the best part o40 years but she'd destroy the vast majority of MAMIL when it comes to w/kg.
gangzoom said:
okgo said:
How would you know. The numbers won’t be correct
And you clearly have never done any real life data analysis 
.R value of 0.8 on two biological variable, that is good enough for me for pretty much anything any day/time.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 27th January 18:45
So to say your 52 y/o wife (not yours in this case!) could destroy most MAMILs based on Peloton data is a very bold statement and likely wouldn’t be backed up in the real world. Not excepting the fact his wife might be the great unnoticed athlete of her generation and can honesty hold 5w/kg until the cows come home.
lauda said:
The issue is that the data from a Peloton (at least the first generation ones) can be very dodgy.
What is the definition of 'dodgy', do you mean validity compared to a internal standard measure or reliability?There is virtually no consumer tool of any kind (even industrial tools) that are 100% valid all the time. Ever tool has a tolerance level, what determines the tolerance depends on usage and cost.
I have zero doubt there is more valid power reading tools around, but the more important bit is data reliability. So does the tool tell me the same result today versus tomorrow?
Trying to measure validity or reliability of any tool is impossible without external validation. This is why you have to rely on things such as correlation to gauge your confidence in performance of the tool.
Terms like 'dodgy' or even 'good' has no real scientific meaning. But from my Hr vs output data I'm pretty confident at the reliability of our Peloton bike, the real question is why does my wifes Hr vs output data vary so much?? No one seems to be answer that??
https://researchrundowns.com/quantitative-methods/...
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 27th January 20:25
Chris Stott said:
As Super7 says, you're riding your own bike, so you measure your progress by how your own numbers change over time... your output (watts) doesn't need to be 100% accurate for that. And if you have a bike + you're good as that has a power meter.
My experience (from the various SM groups I'm a member of) is that physically (gender/age/weight/fitness level), there is no typical Peloton owner. The only real common theme is they love the motivation of the classes, which isn't available (at least to the same standard) on other platforms.
The apparent disinterest of 'I don't particularly care' comes across as fake when you use of words like 'toy' and 'fanboyism'. Drop the superiority complex.... My 52 YO wife hasn't been on a pushbike for the best part of 40 years but she'd destroy the vast majority of MAMIL when it comes to w/kg.
I seriously doubt she would. Having a good w/kg value is one thing, knowing how to ride a bike against other people is totally different. My w/kg is little more than 3 right now but decades of riding with and against better cyclists has taught me a lot.My experience (from the various SM groups I'm a member of) is that physically (gender/age/weight/fitness level), there is no typical Peloton owner. The only real common theme is they love the motivation of the classes, which isn't available (at least to the same standard) on other platforms.
The apparent disinterest of 'I don't particularly care' comes across as fake when you use of words like 'toy' and 'fanboyism'. Drop the superiority complex.... My 52 YO wife hasn't been on a pushbike for the best part of 40 years but she'd destroy the vast majority of MAMIL when it comes to w/kg.
Being “good “ at a 45 min spin class, with someone telling you when to push and for how long, just isn’t the same as real world cycling with lumps in the road necessitating micro bursts of very high watts. I’d wager she’d get dropped on most spirited club rides (that can last 2-3 hours longer than a peloton class) pretty quickly.
As others have said, peloton isn’t cycling, the people who like it aren’t often cyclists. There is a common theme, rarely does a peloton owner also have a high end road bike in the garage. I have no issue either way, if you like it and it keeps you fit that’s great, but ridiculous comments like yours just prove that some users live in a bubble.
I’d wager the majority of Zwift users use it to supplement real world cycling, not as an only alternative.
Edited to add Gangzoom’s data is quite interesting and intriguing. Without wanting to pick on him (although he did put up the data;))…
In a 45 min “low impact” cycling class, his avg watts were 133, in a “power zone” class, his avg watts were 152. I’d expect the latter to be a fair bit higher although I have no idea what the intentions of the particular class is and what warm up/cool down is included.
His 20 min FTP test was an avg of 198, so Z3 should be 140-165ish, and what I’d expect to be the power zone, Z4, should be 165-200. Given the duration of the classes, I’d expect avg power output to be closer to FTP
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th January 22:00
gangzoom said:
What is the definition of 'dodgy', do you mean validity compared to a internal standard measure or reliability?
There is virtually no consumer tool of any kind (even industrial tools) that are 100% valid all the time. Ever tool has a tolerance level, what determines the tolerance depends on usage and cost.
I have zero doubt there is more valid power reading tools around, but the more important bit is data reliability. So does the tool tell me the same result today versus tomorrow?
Trying to measure validity or reliability of any tool is impossible without external validation. This is why you have to rely on things such as correlation to gauge your confidence in performance of the tool.
Terms like 'dodgy' or even 'good' has no real scientific meaning. But from my Hr vs output data I'm pretty confident at the reliability of our Peloton bike, the real question is why does my wifes Hr vs output data vary so much?? No one seems to be answer that??
https://researchrundowns.com/quantitative-methods/...
Most of the big brands have a 1.5% accuracy tolerance and are factory calibrated with certificates to match. And given watts are just a calculation of angular velocity and torque it isn’t exactly witchcraft. There is virtually no consumer tool of any kind (even industrial tools) that are 100% valid all the time. Ever tool has a tolerance level, what determines the tolerance depends on usage and cost.
I have zero doubt there is more valid power reading tools around, but the more important bit is data reliability. So does the tool tell me the same result today versus tomorrow?
Trying to measure validity or reliability of any tool is impossible without external validation. This is why you have to rely on things such as correlation to gauge your confidence in performance of the tool.
Terms like 'dodgy' or even 'good' has no real scientific meaning. But from my Hr vs output data I'm pretty confident at the reliability of our Peloton bike, the real question is why does my wifes Hr vs output data vary so much?? No one seems to be answer that??
https://researchrundowns.com/quantitative-methods/...
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 27th January 20:25
Your HR is probably far more variable than a decent powermeter. Fatigue, training load, recovery state, alcohol etc etc all have an effect on your HR readings. Combining the two I’m surprised you’ve found results worthy of note with yours but nothing for your wife.
sjg said:
Chris Stott said:
But I'm not sure why 'serious cyclists' get so worked up about them... a Peloton isn't about cycling, it's about health and fitness... the only similarity is the use of pedaling. The vast majority of Peloton users have no interest in 'real' cycling and certainly don't want an old push bike on rollers in their spare bedroom/home gym.
Surely anything that gets people exercising and improves their health is a good thing.
Yeah, it's home spin classes for people that like spin classes. Which is fine.Surely anything that gets people exercising and improves their health is a good thing.
The first that most cyclists heard about Peloton was when they were firing out cease & desist letters at anyone using the common and long-used cycling term "peloton". Unsurprisingly that caused a lot of ill feeling.
okgo said:
Your HR is probably far more variable than a decent powermeter. Fatigue, training load, recovery state, alcohol etc etc all have an effect on your HR readings. Combining the two I’m surprised you’ve found results worthy of note with yours but nothing for your wife.
Remember though cardiac output = HR x SVR. Power as produced by your legs will be 100% dependent on cardiac output certainly for aerobic respiration regardless of anything else. So in the interest 'science' I did a long ride on the Peloton bike with alternating Zone 2/3 loads with varying cadence. 
Given what am interested in is if the power reading on the Peloton bike is 'reliable' and therefore reflect my effort the results are more than reassuring.
For both the Zone 2 and Zone 3 segments, regardless of cadence my av HR and av Power readings were pretty much identical!!!
If your theory is that the Peloton bike is unreliable and cannot produce consistent readings what is your explanation for this data?
As far as I can see for our Peloton bike it produces remarkably reliable data, given its 10 months old at present and used nearly every day that is very reassuring interms of been able to judge my own efforts/fitness. I've showed my wifes data to her, and she has now ordered me NOT to look at any more of her data as the only real explanation would be she isn't trying hard enough, so that the end of that experiment
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Edited by gangzoom on Friday 28th January 18:34
if you wacked some power pedals, assoima or wahoo on a peloton you would get a dual recording and then you can compare each trace.
the note about HR correlation purely depends on fatigue, sometimes i’ll go bang a ride and my HR is stupid high for the watts i’m doing, because my legs are fked that day.
i get why people buy pelotons, i wouldn’t but i’m a cyclists. the only bit i think we’re discussing here is peloton-ers thinking their ride watts are comparable to outside real world right? which given there isn’t even a power meter in the thing isn’t likey
the note about HR correlation purely depends on fatigue, sometimes i’ll go bang a ride and my HR is stupid high for the watts i’m doing, because my legs are f
ked that day. i get why people buy pelotons, i wouldn’t but i’m a cyclists. the only bit i think we’re discussing here is peloton-ers thinking their ride watts are comparable to outside real world right? which given there isn’t even a power meter in the thing isn’t likey
z4RRSchris said:
the only bit i think we’re discussing here is peloton-ers thinking their ride watts are comparable to outside real world right?
Am not sure that was something I even mentioned? What I wanted to check was 10 months into ownership is if the work am doing as measured on the bike remains consistent and reliable.The only other objective external number I have is HR, and for me data is 'fun'. As evidenced by the fact me HR data correlates beautifully to the bikes reported power figures where as my wifes data is almost random guess.
So that raises only two hypothesis, 1) the reliability of the bike data changes better riders, even when rides are done back to back. 2) My wife isn't trying hard enough and given the no progression in improving correlation figures over time, it suggests her efforts on the bike need to be more focused.
1) Seems almost impossible given its a man made machine, once I get hold of other people Peloton bike dat it'll be easy to check.
2) Seems much mor3 likely.....though I've now been told by my wife to stop looking at her data, so thats that
.Actually the important bit is the amount exercise Peloton gets you to do. I'm doing more none bike stuff as well now, but this January I think I've done more exercise overall than at any other time in my life. Virtually all of it had been with Peloton.
I did on the real bike in the first week of Jan. Some how managed to hit the deck 'right' with the bike taking most of the impact rather than my soft fleshy skin. The road bike hasn't been used in over 10 months now (pretty much since getting Peloton), and I've only just got the confidence to go back out for commutes on hybrid eBike since that fall.
Looking at data on the Peloton bike is far more 'fun' than hitting the deck in the real world
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Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 30th January 05:51
z4RRSchris said:
if you wacked some power pedals, assoima or wahoo on a peloton you would get a dual recording and then you can compare each trace.
Want to send me some .The only real bike I own with a power meter is my Fauza equipped eBike, that apparently has a troque sensor in the crank to decide on assistance level to provide.
It can output power data to the Strava phone app, and the last time I tired it, apparently I was able to sustain nearly 300watts for 5 mintues?? This is with the motor off, and the Fauza unit isn't exactly bargin basement as Trek and Pinarrelo uses it on their eRoad bike with nearly 5 figure headline prices.
The first FTP power zone setting ride I did on the Peloton a few weeks later had me at way below 200watts for max 20 minutes effort.
I have no idea how Fazua calibrate/set up the torque meter on the eBike BB, but am pretty sure of two 'bikes' that gives me some kind of power figure which is more likely both more accurate and more reliable
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