Tips/critique for a new rider
Discussion
z4RRSchris said:
just didn’t think you wanted to spend more than 1500! if you can go up the canyon spec they get better and better, electronic shifting etc.
the comment on the wheels was mainly don’t be impressed / buy something because it’s got some £300 (new) wheels on it,
Ha! The budget is absolutely limited (though not sure where!) but the C2W scheme does seem to open up c2.5k bikes. Would I be right in saying that a £2,500 bike - with 10% off via my employer scheme - would cost me c£110 in net pay?the comment on the wheels was mainly don’t be impressed / buy something because it’s got some £300 (new) wheels on it,
Just spent the past half hour on the Canyon site. Struggling to tell where some of the extra cost goes on some but then I am not very knowledgable on the details. What does strike me is that disc brakes seem to add a good 4-500 quid to the price (although the wheels might also be better on the disc versions). My brakes are poor so I would want to upgrade in this area but I'm sure any of these options would be an improvement.
I think I like the Endurace CF 8 (in "light lobster"!) as a good balance between cost and spec. Although, tbh, I have no idea whether I need an endurance bike (for my 20 mile rides
) or a race bike (for my 17mph pace ).We were having this discussion last weekend... all you need to enjoy cycling is your current bike, you can keep getting fitter for free! Then a new £300 bike from Halfords has the advantage that nothing will break for a year or two... you could ask yourself, if you spend 5 times the money, will you enjoy it 5 times as much? It was also interesting that one of our regular Club riders said he was swapping back from discs to rim brakes!
The one guy in the Club who has noticeably gone from slower than me to faster is still on the same bike, but he bought a Wattbike and trained through the winter, so he used his cycling budget to make performance gains another way.
Ok deliberately putting a point strongly here, to provoke thought, lol
Conversely, if you get a £2k bike with the tax breaks etc and look after it, can't see you losing much money for a couple of years?
The one guy in the Club who has noticeably gone from slower than me to faster is still on the same bike, but he bought a Wattbike and trained through the winter, so he used his cycling budget to make performance gains another way.
Ok deliberately putting a point strongly here, to provoke thought, lol
Conversely, if you get a £2k bike with the tax breaks etc and look after it, can't see you losing much money for a couple of years?
the c2w scheme if you are on a 40/45% rate is a no brainer, you wont lose money and would probably make some if you decide to sell a decent bike.
As to if a better bike makes you a better rider, probably not, but if it gives you the motivation to go out and ride your bike more then that's a win. One of the lads at work bought a top spec canyon aeroad on C2W, he is 60 and uses it to commute 10km each way. why not.
buy the bike you want to ride, and go ride it!
As to if a better bike makes you a better rider, probably not, but if it gives you the motivation to go out and ride your bike more then that's a win. One of the lads at work bought a top spec canyon aeroad on C2W, he is 60 and uses it to commute 10km each way. why not.
buy the bike you want to ride, and go ride it!
I know I’ve said it before (on other threads) but I would not discount going used. There are some real bargains out there. I recently bought a Storck Fenomalist with full Ultegra 6800 (2x11); Easton carbon bars and seatpost; Hope/DT Swiss wheels all for £700.
Now I recognise that it’s about 10 years old, but it’s still fifty times better as a bike than I am a cyclist, and it’s absolutely sublime to ride. I guess it was a 5 or 6 grand bike when new.
Now I recognise that it’s about 10 years old, but it’s still fifty times better as a bike than I am a cyclist, and it’s absolutely sublime to ride. I guess it was a 5 or 6 grand bike when new.
better to use c2w.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275354393688?hash=item4...
thats a 10 grand bike, you get 43.6% or 48.5%, or 63.5% if you are in tax trap, discount using c2w, so you could pay as low as £3650 for it, and you can flog it after a year for 7 grand and get another!
so you get paid 3.5k a year for having a nice new bike.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275354393688?hash=item4...
thats a 10 grand bike, you get 43.6% or 48.5%, or 63.5% if you are in tax trap, discount using c2w, so you could pay as low as £3650 for it, and you can flog it after a year for 7 grand and get another!
so you get paid 3.5k a year for having a nice new bike.
z4RRSchris said:
better to use c2w.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275354393688?hash=item4...
thats a 10 grand bike, you get 43.6% or 48.5%, or 63.5% if you are in tax trap, discount using c2w, so you could pay as low as £3650 for it, and you can flog it after a year for 7 grand and get another!
so you get paid 3.5k a year for having a nice new bike.
Can you use the C2W scheme for an eBay purchase?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275354393688?hash=item4...
thats a 10 grand bike, you get 43.6% or 48.5%, or 63.5% if you are in tax trap, discount using c2w, so you could pay as low as £3650 for it, and you can flog it after a year for 7 grand and get another!
so you get paid 3.5k a year for having a nice new bike.
tertius said:
z4RRSchris said:
better to use c2w.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275354393688?hash=item4...
thats a 10 grand bike, you get 43.6% or 48.5%, or 63.5% if you are in tax trap, discount using c2w, so you could pay as low as £3650 for it, and you can flog it after a year for 7 grand and get another!
so you get paid 3.5k a year for having a nice new bike.
Can you use the C2W scheme for an eBay purchase?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275354393688?hash=item4...
thats a 10 grand bike, you get 43.6% or 48.5%, or 63.5% if you are in tax trap, discount using c2w, so you could pay as low as £3650 for it, and you can flog it after a year for 7 grand and get another!
so you get paid 3.5k a year for having a nice new bike.
However, a) I think my scheme has a max of 3-something and b) I'm not yet in the market for that level of bike!
tertius said:
I know I’ve said it before (on other threads) but I would not discount going used. There are some real bargains out there. I recently bought a Storck Fenomalist with full Ultegra 6800 (2x11); Easton carbon bars and seatpost; Hope/DT Swiss wheels all for £700.
Now I recognise that it’s about 10 years old, but it’s still fifty times better as a bike than I am a cyclist, and it’s absolutely sublime to ride. I guess it was a 5 or 6 grand bike when new.
Oh 100%, I would always lean towards secondhand normally for the potential bargains out there. However, the C2W came to my attention and it certainly seems worth weighing up against secondhand for the reasons above. Availability seems to be the biggest drawback but I'm in no rush.Now I recognise that it’s about 10 years old, but it’s still fifty times better as a bike than I am a cyclist, and it’s absolutely sublime to ride. I guess it was a 5 or 6 grand bike when new.
deeen said:
We were having this discussion last weekend... all you need to enjoy cycling is your current bike, you can keep getting fitter for free! Then a new £300 bike from Halfords has the advantage that nothing will break for a year or two... you could ask yourself, if you spend 5 times the money, will you enjoy it 5 times as much? It was also interesting that one of our regular Club riders said he was swapping back from discs to rim brakes!
The one guy in the Club who has noticeably gone from slower than me to faster is still on the same bike, but he bought a Wattbike and trained through the winter, so he used his cycling budget to make performance gains another way.
Ok deliberately putting a point strongly here, to provoke thought, lol
Conversely, if you get a £2k bike with the tax breaks etc and look after it, can't see you losing much money for a couple of years?
The one guy in the Club who has noticeably gone from slower than me to faster is still on the same bike, but he bought a Wattbike and trained through the winter, so he used his cycling budget to make performance gains another way.
Ok deliberately putting a point strongly here, to provoke thought, lol
Conversely, if you get a £2k bike with the tax breaks etc and look after it, can't see you losing much money for a couple of years?
z4RRSchris said:
the c2w scheme if you are on a 40/45% rate is a no brainer, you wont lose money and would probably make some if you decide to sell a decent bike.
As to if a better bike makes you a better rider, probably not, but if it gives you the motivation to go out and ride your bike more then that's a win. One of the lads at work bought a top spec canyon aeroad on C2W, he is 60 and uses it to commute 10km each way. why not.
buy the bike you want to ride, and go ride it!
I do agree with you deeen as I am certain you are right and that 5x the bike is not 5x the fun but then I suppose none of us really live by this view given that we are on PH and likely have cars that we want rather than we need!As to if a better bike makes you a better rider, probably not, but if it gives you the motivation to go out and ride your bike more then that's a win. One of the lads at work bought a top spec canyon aeroad on C2W, he is 60 and uses it to commute 10km each way. why not.
buy the bike you want to ride, and go ride it!
To Chris's point I think it is simply a case of having a nicer bike = wanting to do more with it. If I'm being honest I just like to have nice things!
WhisperingWasp said:
Oh 100%, I would always lean towards secondhand normally for the potential bargains out there. However, the C2W came to my attention and it certainly seems worth weighing up against secondhand for the reasons above. Availability seems to be the biggest drawback but I'm in no rush.
I couldn't ignore C2W in the current market (and being into the 40% tax band). With tidy second hand mountain bikes being priced only slightly less than new a lot of the time, it was too good to pass up. Ironically, if I did ever cycle to my current job, it'd not be the C2W-ed mtb I'd ride
There's not been quite so much change in the road bike world over the last decade-ish as there has been in mtbs, though, so I'd still keep a close eye out for older proper-nice bikes at decent prices... the balance of value isn't quite so obvious.
defblade said:
I couldn't ignore C2W in the current market (and being into the 40% tax band). With tidy second hand mountain bikes being priced only slightly less than new a lot of the time, it was too good to pass up.
Ironically, if I did ever cycle to my current job, it'd not be the C2W-ed mtb I'd ride
There's not been quite so much change in the road bike world over the last decade-ish as there has been in mtbs, though, so I'd still keep a close eye out for older proper-nice bikes at decent prices... the balance of value isn't quite so obvious.
Would you mind telling me the RRP of the bike and the subsequent hit to net pay please? Would be a helpful yardstick.Ironically, if I did ever cycle to my current job, it'd not be the C2W-ed mtb I'd ride
There's not been quite so much change in the road bike world over the last decade-ish as there has been in mtbs, though, so I'd still keep a close eye out for older proper-nice bikes at decent prices... the balance of value isn't quite so obvious.
WhisperingWasp said:
Would you mind telling me the RRP of the bike and the subsequent hit to net pay please? Would be a helpful yardstick.
The bike was £1399.I elected to pay it on one month's salary rather then over a year or two... I'd rather just pay for stuff than put it in instalments, and to me it's only the same as taking that money out of my savings to buy the bike if it leaves me short for a month. (And, by complete co-incidence, I gave in my notice a couple of weeks after setting up the C2W, so I was quite glad it would be one less complication at the end.)
The thing went through on last month's pay slip.
Expected total price after tax of about £840.
I also had about the same in holiday pay come in (as it'd been too busy to use my allowance by year end); but they also stiffed me for about £600 of holiday pay... so as I was about £600-700 down overall, the expected £840 was probably about right. But I'm blowed if I can be sure if my tax was up or down or looping the loop, or what it will do this month when I get the sick pay back...
Don't know if that helps
but the main thing is, as far as I can tell, the maths they gave on the c2w website worked.Not an expensive bike really though these days, and I could fairly happily have afforded it outright, so hard to lose on the c2w scheme.
(My road bike, not bought on C2W, was a similar price - gone up a bit now though - Kinesis R1, £1680 - the very minimum point for a half-decent road bike without any diminishing returns IMO. But you don't have to spend loads to get something fairly tidy and up to date... and you can always upgrade as wear and tear demands and funds allow.)
WhisperingWasp said:
Mark83 said:
It was a fairly flat one so a little faster than usual, and longest route we do. They're normally 40-50 miles / 70-80km (unless you're in the fast group) and you'll be surprised at the speed and distance you can cover in a group. If you're not feeling it, shelter in the pack, use 30% less effort and get pulled along, if you're feeling strong, do a longer turn on the front. The group stays together and no one gets dropped.
okgo said:
As with every terrain/distance in cycling, it is far easier when there are other people to sit behind.
Never more true than when you see one of the big events happen and you have people averaging 22/23mph over the whole Ride 100 course that never broke 19mph solo. Drafting effect even in a small group on a club run is huge.
Interesting you both saying this. Obviously I am aware of the effect but I suppose I didn't really think it was that much of a thing at the amateur end of things. +3-4mph seems an incredible speed gain just by being in a group. I just can't picture how that works but then I've never tried it.Never more true than when you see one of the big events happen and you have people averaging 22/23mph over the whole Ride 100 course that never broke 19mph solo. Drafting effect even in a small group on a club run is huge.
23 July - 41.39 miles and 3,409 feet elevation at 14.5 mph
25 July - 52.29 miles and 2,667 feet elevation at 13.8 mph
26 July - 77.48 miles and 3,711 feet elevation at 15.0 mph
27 July - 38.24 miles and 1,555 feet elevation at 15.1 mph
These were all solo rides on the same bike that I'd ride for the event. The actual RideLondon event day stats?
04 August - 99.02 miles and 4,491 feet elevation at 16.8 mph - https://www.strava.com/activities/2592367801
So an improvement to my pace of between 1.7 mph and 3.0 mph over the period leading into it. And that wasn't even "riding in a group". I lack the practice at group riding and so didn't trust my own, nor anyone around me's ability to ride safely in a group. What I found myself doing was trying to follow faster groups to grab a little bit of a tow (whether physical or psychological) as they passed me, or I'd "surf" along individuals and slower groups of riders. I'd catch up to them, keep pace for a while, then leapfrog to the next group on the road. It also helped to keep moving the whole time, being self-sufficient instead of stopping at feed stations or to use the toilet. I'd have probably broken the 17.0 mph barrier too if it hadn't been for a puncture after Wimbledon and getting stopped at pedestrian crossing points on the final run in.
Recently I had a huge break from my bike from 20 May to 13 July and it's showing in my (lack of) fitness. Covid and caring for my wife after foot surgery combined to keep me off the bike, and I chose a really tough route for my first ride back, but it was quite an embarrassingly slow ride despite the myriad available excuses (heat, steep climbs, post-Covid condition, etc). Although there is always the caveat that MTB ride-to-ride comparisons are even harder to make due to topographical differences than ride-to-ride comparisons on the roads.
Last ride before the break...
20 May - 8.10 miles and 419 feet elevation at 7.4 mph (Giant anthem MTB) - https://www.strava.com/activities/7175096888
First ride back over 7 weeks later...
13 July - 18.78 miles and 2,397 feet elevation at 5.8 mph (Giant Anthem MTB) - https://www.strava.com/activities/7474882223
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