Road Cycling - what's with all the drug cheating ?
Discussion
Just been reading about TDF winner Contador getting nabbed for it. Lance love-him-or-hate-him Armstrong being stringly linked with abuse and not a day goes by on Bikeradar without a headline about some other 'roadie' being caught out cheating and banned.
I have to admit I know nothing of road riding, I'm a off-roader through and through.
But what's up? I don't know of a sigle other sport with such outrageous levels of abuse.
Is it's the UCI zero tolerance approach or is it just as bad as it seems?
I'd love to know what the road riding fans think about it.
I have to admit I know nothing of road riding, I'm a off-roader through and through.
But what's up? I don't know of a sigle other sport with such outrageous levels of abuse.
Is it's the UCI zero tolerance approach or is it just as bad as it seems?
I'd love to know what the road riding fans think about it.
NitroNick said:
Unfortunately it got to a stage where you couldn't win a race as a pro unless you were juicing up.
Pros had to start taking banned substances in order to get paid. The guys who weren't willing to take anything slipped back into obscurity just leaving a sport dominated by cheats.
tahts a pretty good summary, even the seemingly good guys lke Millar succombed in the end. Laurent Fignon's book is a great read. i dont think contador is guilty, there is more to this than is currently being released. i will be very surprised if he has knowingly taken something o nthe banned substance list...Pros had to start taking banned substances in order to get paid. The guys who weren't willing to take anything slipped back into obscurity just leaving a sport dominated by cheats.
the doping control is getting very good now and its almost too hard to cheat the system. with the likes of pelizotti getting caught so easily earlier this year its a real fool who tries.
sorry but "they all take drugs" is rubbish some do some dont and its getting tough for the real cheats.I know and have known plenty or riders who have won prolifically for years who have never cheated.You are tested at random,out of season and during races,dont you think more than a few would get caught if was as bad as "everybody is doing it"?Contadors samples wouldnt be detected or reported from some labs more likely he was blood doping on the rest day.
Pro riders can race up to 200/250 days per year, in particular the team riders, not the stars.
However fit you are, if you ride to your limit or close that frequently you'll need something to help with recovery and to repair muscle damage. If you don't do it, there's always someone else ready to take your place in the team. It's been part of the culture of the sport for decades.
Check out the numbers of ex pros rider dying early. Laurent Fignon being the most recent. (RIP) It's tragic really. Such a noble sport but so tainted.
However fit you are, if you ride to your limit or close that frequently you'll need something to help with recovery and to repair muscle damage. If you don't do it, there's always someone else ready to take your place in the team. It's been part of the culture of the sport for decades.
Check out the numbers of ex pros rider dying early. Laurent Fignon being the most recent. (RIP) It's tragic really. Such a noble sport but so tainted.
Camoradi said:
Pro riders can race up to 200/250 days per year, in particular the team riders, not the stars.
However fit you are, if you ride to your limit or close that frequently you'll need something to help with recovery and to repair muscle damage. If you don't do it, there's always someone else ready to take your place in the team. It's been part of the culture of the sport for decades.
Check out the numbers of ex pros rider dying early. Laurent Fignon being the most recent. (RIP) It's tragic really. Such a noble sport but so tainted.
but thats the past, nowadays as has been mentioned, the testing is so prolific that you just cant cheat the system these days.However fit you are, if you ride to your limit or close that frequently you'll need something to help with recovery and to repair muscle damage. If you don't do it, there's always someone else ready to take your place in the team. It's been part of the culture of the sport for decades.
Check out the numbers of ex pros rider dying early. Laurent Fignon being the most recent. (RIP) It's tragic really. Such a noble sport but so tainted.
as for muscle repair and damage, there have been such rapid developments in sports nutrition over the last ten years that to be honest, there is no need for drugs to win an event even if you could get away with it. teams have such a struggle finding sponsorship and retaining it that to emply tainted riders is a huge risk that many teams will not take these days. i cant believe any team these days would pressure a rider to take a banned substance...
The new generation of riders know the score and the sponsors and lets face its that what matters (money) wont back a drug taking team.
http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2008/07/17/the-bes...
http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2008/07/17/the-bes...
P-Jay said:
Just been reading about TDF winner Contador getting nabbed for it. Lance love-him-or-hate-him Armstrong being stringly linked with abuse
Do people think Armstrong has been drug taking in the past? I read his autobiography which makes me wonder how it would be possible for him to take drugs, such was the frequency of the tests he had to submit himself for. Also, the tests were often required with no warning (they'd turn up at his house unannounced).I'm surprised that anyone could consider it possible to get away with it these days.
Here is the interview that is the most damning of Armstrong.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/mich...
You decide.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/mich...
You decide.
Mars said:
P-Jay said:
Just been reading about TDF winner Contador getting nabbed for it. Lance love-him-or-hate-him Armstrong being stringly linked with abuse
Do people think Armstrong has been drug taking in the past? I read his autobiography which makes me wonder how it would be possible for him to take drugs, such was the frequency of the tests he had to submit himself for. Also, the tests were often required with no warning (they'd turn up at his house unannounced).I'm surprised that anyone could consider it possible to get away with it these days.
I'd like to think he was clean, but beating riders who aren't clean is a massive ask of the human body - genetically gifted or not.
I fail to believe it is exclusive to road cycling - sadly, all top level spot will be the same - I'm including XC mountain biking in that as well by the way.
People like Christine whatsherface (the 400m woman) miss loads of tests and yet are allowed to compete and revered in the public eye. Rasmussen lied about where he was (and we all know why) and WADA came down on him like a ton of bricks - people like Basso and Valverde get banned just for being near doping (at least that is how I understand their involvement with Puerto went down)
The fact is that the UCI and WADA are highly proactive in the fight against doping, pro tour cyclists are the most tested people alive - of course they will catch more cheats. I know I sound like some Police representative blaming the rise in crime on increased detection, but (and call me a naive idealist here), I can't help but feel this is the case.
Doping in this day and age (as a cyclist, where you won't get away with it) is monumentally stupid - even if they don't get caught at the time, WADA are so on the ball (lying about not being able to test for CERA for example) and retrospectively testing samples as new tests become available - show me one other sport where the authorities go to this much trouble. Apparently Major League Baseball is the worst - everyone is on drugs, no-one is tested and the repercussions are almost non existent. Fail one drugs test as a cyclist and it is at least a 2 year ban.
The Armstrong debate is a bit of a non starter - no-one in history has been tested more than him and he has never came back dirty - there is speculation, but no proof - so the accusations mean exactly f
k all, and are usually spouted from the mouths of people who just hate Lance - that dhead Paul Kimmage for example. The Contador case isn't exactly a strong one either - anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't read all the facts - the lab where the test was performed, when in the tour the sample was taken, the concentrations involved and the chemical used - I hate Contador a fair bit, because I think he is a classless for attacking Schleck, but that "positive" test is a bit daft if you ask me.
Basically, yes, more road cyclists will get done for doping, but that is because they are tested more. During the Festina/Phonak years stuff was bad in cycling, and a reputation like that takes a long time to shift. When I hear people moaning about doping in cycling in recent times, I tend to roll my eyes and just ignore them - generally they know very little on the matter and it isn't something I like talking about anyway.
People like Christine whatsherface (the 400m woman) miss loads of tests and yet are allowed to compete and revered in the public eye. Rasmussen lied about where he was (and we all know why) and WADA came down on him like a ton of bricks - people like Basso and Valverde get banned just for being near doping (at least that is how I understand their involvement with Puerto went down)
The fact is that the UCI and WADA are highly proactive in the fight against doping, pro tour cyclists are the most tested people alive - of course they will catch more cheats. I know I sound like some Police representative blaming the rise in crime on increased detection, but (and call me a naive idealist here), I can't help but feel this is the case.
Doping in this day and age (as a cyclist, where you won't get away with it) is monumentally stupid - even if they don't get caught at the time, WADA are so on the ball (lying about not being able to test for CERA for example) and retrospectively testing samples as new tests become available - show me one other sport where the authorities go to this much trouble. Apparently Major League Baseball is the worst - everyone is on drugs, no-one is tested and the repercussions are almost non existent. Fail one drugs test as a cyclist and it is at least a 2 year ban.
The Armstrong debate is a bit of a non starter - no-one in history has been tested more than him and he has never came back dirty - there is speculation, but no proof - so the accusations mean exactly f
k all, and are usually spouted from the mouths of people who just hate Lance - that dhead Paul Kimmage for example. The Contador case isn't exactly a strong one either - anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't read all the facts - the lab where the test was performed, when in the tour the sample was taken, the concentrations involved and the chemical used - I hate Contador a fair bit, because I think he is a classless for attacking Schleck, but that "positive" test is a bit daft if you ask me.Basically, yes, more road cyclists will get done for doping, but that is because they are tested more. During the Festina/Phonak years stuff was bad in cycling, and a reputation like that takes a long time to shift. When I hear people moaning about doping in cycling in recent times, I tend to roll my eyes and just ignore them - generally they know very little on the matter and it isn't something I like talking about anyway.
Parsnip said:
The Armstrong debate is a bit of a non starter - no-one in history has been tested more than him and he has never came back dirty - there is speculation, but no proof - so the accusations mean exactly fk all, and are usually spouted from the mouths of people who just hate Lance - that dhead Paul Kimmage for example.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. What I don't understand is why people still accuse him.k all, and are usually spouted from the mouths of people who just hate Lance - that dhead Paul Kimmage for example.Uriel said:
Mars said:
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. What I don't understand is why people still accuse him.
Did you read the link I posted?Anyway, taking that interview in isolation, it does look damning I agree.
Lance doped, I'm convinced of it.
I don't like him, but that has nothing to do with my opinion on whether he's cheated. It's just a balance of probability thing. In the era that he competed it was not believable to beat a bunch of dopers whilst staying clean.
And there's all the Simeoni stuff...
I don't like him, but that has nothing to do with my opinion on whether he's cheated. It's just a balance of probability thing. In the era that he competed it was not believable to beat a bunch of dopers whilst staying clean.
And there's all the Simeoni stuff...
There was an interesting article in the Sunday Times on Contador's case, sadly I can't link to it with their pay for view stuff.
Generally the writers theory was that Condtador had a blood transfusion on the rest day, given that how closely their food was monitored before and during the race period, and that his sample had traces of plastic in it.
He was probably on the stuff when training, and the blood he swapped too was not completely clear, someone on the team made an error!
Either way, I'm still pretty convinced that most of the pro's are taking something, 'how much what and when' is the question. The limits are pretty high for all the substances, and I agree with the idea that the pro teams many Dr's are there to keep the levels in check, whether that be in the off season or making sure none of the ‘containments’ show up during the race season.
Paul Kimage's book ‘Rough Ride’ (Despite his recent Armstrong bashing antics, which do him no favours) is actually a good read, in days gone by, amphetamines, Caffeine etc were being freely handed between riders during a stage etc.
The desire to win can be pretty scary at times.
Generally the writers theory was that Condtador had a blood transfusion on the rest day, given that how closely their food was monitored before and during the race period, and that his sample had traces of plastic in it.
He was probably on the stuff when training, and the blood he swapped too was not completely clear, someone on the team made an error!
Either way, I'm still pretty convinced that most of the pro's are taking something, 'how much what and when' is the question. The limits are pretty high for all the substances, and I agree with the idea that the pro teams many Dr's are there to keep the levels in check, whether that be in the off season or making sure none of the ‘containments’ show up during the race season.
Paul Kimage's book ‘Rough Ride’ (Despite his recent Armstrong bashing antics, which do him no favours) is actually a good read, in days gone by, amphetamines, Caffeine etc were being freely handed between riders during a stage etc.
The desire to win can be pretty scary at times.
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