Front Wheel Drive
Discussion
Whilst queuing in the fire up road at Sundays RWYB at The Pod and looking at the cars all around me. I got to thinking that surely the time has come for European drag racing to embrace front wheel drive. Our friends across the pond have bitten the bullet with various "Import" series, but European promoters seem determined to ignore it. There would appear to be a vast number of potential grass roots competitors going begging and surely if they joined in at the bottom, a percentage of them would go on to bigger and better things. Before anyone shoots me down I know that we have VWDRC and Sportsman ET but neither of these seem to target these potential competitors.
I agree with you and this was discussed on the old DW forum. I just hope a lot of the blinkered people don't come and attack this thread like the old one.
I agree with you, i feel there is a place for FWD/Import cars in Drag Racing. The problem is getting them to a sanctioned event.
It could be a good way of converting the masses too. Look in America, some standout import drivers are now on the V8 ship and doing pretty well too, not just in Pro Stock but other classes like Comp etc.
Is it time for them to join the fray now turbos have become such a big part of European Drag Racing?
I'd like to see a series set up like Trev Langfields Euro Car setup.
I fear if the FWD/Imports were made to enter Sportsman ET etc that they would not compete due to the fact they maybe beaten by a V8 etc..then again look at Paul Websters Mini, Nick Gays Metro and Martin Lewis' Nova Blaze. They all stand there own.
Another thing that may hamper them is the fact most of them will want to race heads up so a bracket class may deter racers.
Will the Import Series ever join the MSA events?
I agree with you, i feel there is a place for FWD/Import cars in Drag Racing. The problem is getting them to a sanctioned event.
It could be a good way of converting the masses too. Look in America, some standout import drivers are now on the V8 ship and doing pretty well too, not just in Pro Stock but other classes like Comp etc.
Is it time for them to join the fray now turbos have become such a big part of European Drag Racing?
I'd like to see a series set up like Trev Langfields Euro Car setup.
I fear if the FWD/Imports were made to enter Sportsman ET etc that they would not compete due to the fact they maybe beaten by a V8 etc..then again look at Paul Websters Mini, Nick Gays Metro and Martin Lewis' Nova Blaze. They all stand there own.
Another thing that may hamper them is the fact most of them will want to race heads up so a bracket class may deter racers.
Will the Import Series ever join the MSA events?
Edited by flying toilet on Tuesday 31st October 16:08
Ive thought about this a lot in the past and I really believe marketed properly that a front wheel drive/import series would have huge numbers of competitors, probably to many to run with the national championship.
Maybe develop the current jap racer series to be more all encompassing and invite the top classes to run at the bigger drag events.
would also be pretty cool to have some cross championship challenges like the VWs and outlaw anglias used to have.
Maybe develop the current jap racer series to be more all encompassing and invite the top classes to run at the bigger drag events.
would also be pretty cool to have some cross championship challenges like the VWs and outlaw anglias used to have.
I was a bit dubious until I saw a turbo car (aka, rice burner, by my american friends) do a demonstration run at NHRA’s Gainesville national race a couple of years ago. I had heard how they build the rpm up but hearing and seeing is another thing.
We were next up to run so had a front row seat. The rpm was built up and up, and then the burnout was carried out with two people holding the sides of the car. When it ran, it was in the SEVENS! You had to be there to see the faces of the disbelievers, they were amazed.
Like it or not, it’s the future and is very big in the states, and could be in Europe if the right people have the vision
Herb
We were next up to run so had a front row seat. The rpm was built up and up, and then the burnout was carried out with two people holding the sides of the car. When it ran, it was in the SEVENS! You had to be there to see the faces of the disbelievers, they were amazed.
Like it or not, it’s the future and is very big in the states, and could be in Europe if the right people have the vision
Herb
Why not, at least it will be drag racing and thats all that counts! We will still have the cars etc we have now and mixed runs will be fun! BRING IT ON GUYS. What with this and diesels things are looking better all the time. We best be quick cos when the government start with the globle warming crap we will probly be told to stop!
I heard of a tube framed RX-7 being built over here at least a year ago now.
Anyone know of this?
Will it be out soon?
A full spec tube car would really open some eyes over here i bet!
I saw a full tube Honda Civic Saloon in New Zealand, it was a very nice bit of kit!
Has run an 8 on a far from good track!
Anyone know of this?
Will it be out soon?
A full spec tube car would really open some eyes over here i bet!
I saw a full tube Honda Civic Saloon in New Zealand, it was a very nice bit of kit!
Has run an 8 on a far from good track!
I agree with you, the sport needs to embrace FWD and alternative fuels as needs new blood coming in to the sport. I spend a lot of time trying to convince people that FWD/Hot hatches of today are doing exactly what the original hot-rodders did in the 50's. Take what vehicles were readily available and modify them, what's the difference except 60 years. We need to get rid of the tunnel vision that says to be a drag racer it must be american, V8 and petrol. (My Audi Diesel is a second quicker in the 1/4 than a new Mustang!)
Dilligaf10 said:
I agree with you, the sport needs to embrace FWD and alternative fuels as needs new blood coming in to the sport. I spend a lot of time trying to convince people that FWD/Hot hatches of today are doing exactly what the original hot-rodders did in the 50's. Take what vehicles were readily available and modify them, what's the difference except 60 years. We need to get rid of the tunnel vision that says to be a drag racer it must be american, V8 and petrol. (My Audi Diesel is a second quicker in the 1/4 than a new Mustang!)
But Richard, the emissions from your oiler are a whole lot worse than what comes out of a Mustang...
Edited by NitroWars on Wednesday 1st November 14:02
NitroWars said:
Dilligaf10 said:
I agree with you, the sport needs to embrace FWD and alternative fuels as needs new blood coming in to the sport. I spend a lot of time trying to convince people that FWD/Hot hatches of today are doing exactly what the original hot-rodders did in the 50's. Take what vehicles were readily available and modify them, what's the difference except 60 years. We need to get rid of the tunnel vision that says to be a drag racer it must be american, V8 and petrol. (My Audi Diesel is a second quicker in the 1/4 than a new Mustang!)
But Richard, the emissions from your oiler are a whole lot worse than what comes out of a Mustang...
Edited by NitroWars on Wednesday 1st November 14:02
Maybe, but for less time so that must equal us out! You wait until I start on the bigger turbo and intercooler setup, I'll have to put the rear foglights on!
it's not my cuppa tea, but its impressive stuff
however I don't see any of the cars currently in this country entering 1) theres no real class for them except sportsman, and theyre too quick for that (the top cars anyway) 2) theyre not legal for any other class anyway
I'm not saying keep them away but if they wanna keep themselves to themselves thats fine, cos I won't be turning up at any of their meetings with the altered, not my scene at all
however I don't see any of the cars currently in this country entering 1) theres no real class for them except sportsman, and theyre too quick for that (the top cars anyway) 2) theyre not legal for any other class anyway
I'm not saying keep them away but if they wanna keep themselves to themselves thats fine, cos I won't be turning up at any of their meetings with the altered, not my scene at all
MotorPsycho said:
it's not my cuppa tea, but its impressive stuff
however I don't see any of the cars currently in this country entering 1) theres no real class for them except sportsman, and theyre too quick for that (the top cars anyway) 2) theyre not legal for any other class anyway
I'm not saying keep them away but if they wanna keep themselves to themselves thats fine, cos I won't be turning up at any of their meetings with the altered, not my scene at all
however I don't see any of the cars currently in this country entering 1) theres no real class for them except sportsman, and theyre too quick for that (the top cars anyway) 2) theyre not legal for any other class anyway
I'm not saying keep them away but if they wanna keep themselves to themselves thats fine, cos I won't be turning up at any of their meetings with the altered, not my scene at all
It is not necessarily my cup of tea either but we need to get more people into the sport to support the other classes such as the altereds. I would love to see big fields of the "top cars" but we need a lot of other classes below that to support them. Once we have got people interested in competeing in sanctioned events it is a lot easier to get them to move up a class or so. The attitude of "not turning up at any of their meetings with the altered" is, in my opinion, extremely short sighted as how are they going to get them interested in "proper" cars if they never get to see one run in anger? The sight and spectacle of pure raw power of a drag car is still limited to few people even within Motorsport so it is left to us to PROMOTE the sport and not carry on in an elitist attitude. (There would not be too much of a problem creating a class for them anyway.)
When I started this thread I wasn't thinking of the really quick cars that turn up at the various show events, as they're usually run by tuning firms anyway. I think we need to appeal to the guys you see at RWYB events using their daily driver and setting what would be good Sportsman times. The problem as I see it is that at the moment the sport doesn't seem to do anything to encourage them to move on from RWYB to real drag racing. Can you imagine Tescos having a shop full of people with money in their pockets and not trying to sell them anything. These people are at a drag strip, they are interested in racing, they have a suitable car, and yet no effort is made by anyone to recruit them.
jalopyjoe said:
When I started this thread I wasn't thinking of the really quick cars that turn up at the various show events, as they're usually run by tuning firms anyway. I think we need to appeal to the guys you see at RWYB events using their daily driver and setting what would be good Sportsman times. The problem as I see it is that at the moment the sport doesn't seem to do anything to encourage them to move on from RWYB to real drag racing. Can you imagine Tescos having a shop full of people with money in their pockets and not trying to sell them anything. These people are at a drag strip, they are interested in racing, they have a suitable car, and yet no effort is made by anyone to recruit them.
a good point well put...... imo the reason they don't come into "proper" drag racing is the rules....
firstly the car has to be scrutineered,and there's the first stumbling block...,then there's licence,club membership,race suit,etc,etc..... it was the first time i'd been to a RWYB this year for a while.There is a lot of cars/owners from both scenes that aren't the least bit interested in joining "organised" drag racing.
For the reasons above and a few more.Personally i don't know what the answer is but i feel that the structure is there for people to join,if they want to then they will.......it's really as simple as that..
Only good can come from different clases joining etc. if we do not like certain bits of this and that then we can always have a walk round the pits talk to fav clases etc or if pos race real cars ourself when FWD etc do runs! Come on you lot that will not move, we need more racers and cars of all types to help our sport grow! We all know its for the best.
I agree with Andy when he says that not all of these people are interested in real drag racing, but some of them must be and more probably would be if the information was made available to them. What I find really sad is that BRSCC, a roundy round club is targetting these people through their CruiseSport initiative and to add insult to injury they attend the bigger RWYB festival type events to promote their sport to these very people while drag racing seems happy to let potential new blood slip through its fingers.
I had a quick look at www.rwyb.co.uk/ the other day, and personally I thinkinitiatives such as The Castrol Challenge (www.rwyb.co.uk/cc_registration.php) will help get people into the sport if they are interested - it introduces a level of competition providing a step between just getting a timing ticket on your daily ride and full on sanctioned racing (and yes I have noted who is top of the table for 2006).
I don't think any militant marketing is needed, if people want to race they will. I would like to see an import class set up but it doesn't have to run at traditional events if that is not what suits it. Equally, I would like to see it set up by the people who want to race in it with support from organising clubs, rather than set up for them in the hope they will come. If there isn't the interest then it will be a wasted venture and possibly detrimental to the sport.
I don't think any militant marketing is needed, if people want to race they will. I would like to see an import class set up but it doesn't have to run at traditional events if that is not what suits it. Equally, I would like to see it set up by the people who want to race in it with support from organising clubs, rather than set up for them in the hope they will come. If there isn't the interest then it will be a wasted venture and possibly detrimental to the sport.
In fact guys if I may add to this thread, Shakespeare County last Sunday ran the final instalment of the Jap Racer Day series taking in Front Wheel Drive and Unlimited Drive. As most will know, the track’s former organiser LA Performance Services ran this successful 3 event format together with 2 events this season purely for the Jap Racers before handing it over to the track last month.
The series is set up so that anyone with a street legal import car (with clear ruling over tyres and fuels etc) can take part in time trials against the clock with the top three in each division taking points for quickest, fastest as well as picking up other bonuses along the way. This, with support from 'Japanese Performance' magazine worked very well. In fact the track is seriously looking at carrying the series forward into 2007 with a wider range of support and sponsorship to help the series grow at the Warwickshire race track.
In total we had over 75 drivers sign on Sunday (most were taking part in the Unlimited division), but from the 15 registered FWD drivers the top time went to Guy Chamberlain’s CPL Racing Honda Civic Type-R (Europe’s fastest and the quickest EP3 in the world) with consistent low eleven second times (11.140/137.26). Team mate in the CPL camp, Peter Catell was also running similar numbers in his Civic; the fastest supercharged Type-R in Europe.
The series is set up so that anyone with a street legal import car (with clear ruling over tyres and fuels etc) can take part in time trials against the clock with the top three in each division taking points for quickest, fastest as well as picking up other bonuses along the way. This, with support from 'Japanese Performance' magazine worked very well. In fact the track is seriously looking at carrying the series forward into 2007 with a wider range of support and sponsorship to help the series grow at the Warwickshire race track.
In total we had over 75 drivers sign on Sunday (most were taking part in the Unlimited division), but from the 15 registered FWD drivers the top time went to Guy Chamberlain’s CPL Racing Honda Civic Type-R (Europe’s fastest and the quickest EP3 in the world) with consistent low eleven second times (11.140/137.26). Team mate in the CPL camp, Peter Catell was also running similar numbers in his Civic; the fastest supercharged Type-R in Europe.
I believe the quickest FWD in the UK at the moment goes to Andy Nickles in his Rover Mk3 Turbo who run the UK's first 10s 1/4m for a fwd car at Ultimate street car this year on road legal tyres. 10.84s 139mph. Was in his home built Rover Mk3 turbo
also ran 11s dead and 11.1s. 1/8th mile 7.1s 109mph.
There's a also the emergence of 11 second Nova's and Corsa's so plenty of different types of cars starting to get in the mix as well.
Still a way off the USA guys but certainly heading in the right direction.
also ran 11s dead and 11.1s. 1/8th mile 7.1s 109mph.
There's a also the emergence of 11 second Nova's and Corsa's so plenty of different types of cars starting to get in the mix as well.
Still a way off the USA guys but certainly heading in the right direction.
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