Renewed interest in Funny Cars
Discussion
‘Talk is cheap but action is real’ someone once said. Currently there is a lot of internet talk about a number of existing European top fuel teams moving over to funny car or adding a funny car to their stable. Personally I am really pleased to see the ‘potential’ renewed interest in fielding more funny cars in Europe. Roll on 2007 and let’s see what comes out of the off season.
Things have a habit of going full circle. Those who have been around a while will remember the Pod’s 1980 world finals meeting with a funny car entry list of 20, for the 16 car eliminator. Back then top fuel was going through a lean time, not only in Europe, and it only started to pick up in the US after Don Garlits returned to racing full time in 1884
I’ve no intention of knocking top fuel as it’s the king of speed but additional funny cars will hopefully bring healthy competition to Showtime and shockwave, who have put up a fabulous effort but get ignored as they have had problems in sometimes getting down the track, and to some that’s all they want to remember them for.
Getting back to the Pods 1980 world finals, one of the entries was Raymond Beadle, at the time the current NHRA funny car world champion. Well, Del Worsham has built a replica of Raymond’s car which he races at limited nostalgia races. In preparation for this weekends Fuel and Gas Finals at Bakersfield, last Monday Del ran it in testing, after the NHRA national race at Vegas. Wait for this, he ran 5.919 at 243.85 mph! They have been by the many nostalgia racers, fans, and reporters at Vegas that's the quickest run in the history of Nostalgia Funny Car racing. Follow the link to his blog:
[url]http://blogs.nhra.com/nhrablogs.asp?b[/url]
Herb
Things have a habit of going full circle. Those who have been around a while will remember the Pod’s 1980 world finals meeting with a funny car entry list of 20, for the 16 car eliminator. Back then top fuel was going through a lean time, not only in Europe, and it only started to pick up in the US after Don Garlits returned to racing full time in 1884
I’ve no intention of knocking top fuel as it’s the king of speed but additional funny cars will hopefully bring healthy competition to Showtime and shockwave, who have put up a fabulous effort but get ignored as they have had problems in sometimes getting down the track, and to some that’s all they want to remember them for.
Getting back to the Pods 1980 world finals, one of the entries was Raymond Beadle, at the time the current NHRA funny car world champion. Well, Del Worsham has built a replica of Raymond’s car which he races at limited nostalgia races. In preparation for this weekends Fuel and Gas Finals at Bakersfield, last Monday Del ran it in testing, after the NHRA national race at Vegas. Wait for this, he ran 5.919 at 243.85 mph! They have been by the many nostalgia racers, fans, and reporters at Vegas that's the quickest run in the history of Nostalgia Funny Car racing. Follow the link to his blog:
[url]http://blogs.nhra.com/nhrablogs.asp?b[/url]
Herb
Edited by herb andrews on Tuesday 31st October 23:09
How many FIA classes can run at any one time? I recall there being a worry that TMD would get dropped once Pro Mod came into the FIA fold, so wouldn't adding nitro FCs further confuse things? Could Santa Pod, for example, cope with TF, AAFC, TMD, TMFC, Pro Mod AND Pro Stock all at one event?! Just when we get the fields and perfomance we've all been yearning for in top fuel, it seems mad that people are talking about jumping ship.
hornet said:
How many FIA classes can run at any one time? I recall there being a worry that TMD would get dropped once Pro Mod came into the FIA fold, so wouldn't adding nitro FCs further confuse things? Could Santa Pod, for example, cope with TF, AAFC, TMD, TMFC, Pro Mod AND Pro Stock all at one event?! Just when we get the fields and perfomance we've all been yearning for in top fuel, it seems mad that people are talking about jumping ship.
These things are generally cyclical. Micke Kagered, Andy Carter, Siw Nystadt, Urs Erbacher, Smax / McDonald Bros., Lex Joon, Haken Nilsson, Stig Neergard arent going anywhere. Tommy Moller hasn't said he is leaving yet and Haapanen / Makela motorsports still have a lot to prove. There are also other people (including brits) who are looking at TF as well as AA/FC, though of course, talk is cheap, and until its on Eurodragster, etc etc.
I am looking forward to seeing eight car top fuel and funny car fields soon. Santa Pod could easily deal with expanded fields, with the recently extended pitting and introduction of four day events.
"You never had it so good!!"
Over the years I have been lucky to go to over 50 NHRA national or divisional events and have crewed at 15 of them.
Two key points that stand out is slick organization and the lack of serious oil downs. Compared to the US, generally there is a lot of downtime over here. That’s a fact. Its not rocket science and I am sure the organizers take advice from the US but if entries are to increase, and I have no doubt Santa Pod can cope, downtime will have to be reduced and kept to a minimum.
Before about 1995 oil downs were regular occurrences at NHRA events. However, with the introduction of live television the organizers were forced to reduce the down time caused by them. One of the things they introduced was penalties. The offending racer is now fined and has championship points taken away from them if they oil the track and the clean up crew roll. I am not suggesting the same should be applied over here but at this years European finals there was too many leakers, for our own good. New spectators will get bored and not return, we took some with us and thats what they said, which is bad news all around. You will never eliminate oil downs and NHRA does not get it right all the time, for example at Richmond Virginia a few weeks ago our schedule was adrift by an hour after a pro stocker oiled the complete lane! No racer deliberately goes out knowing the thing will leak but we should use lessons learnt by NHRA.
That’s my thoughts
Herb
Two key points that stand out is slick organization and the lack of serious oil downs. Compared to the US, generally there is a lot of downtime over here. That’s a fact. Its not rocket science and I am sure the organizers take advice from the US but if entries are to increase, and I have no doubt Santa Pod can cope, downtime will have to be reduced and kept to a minimum.
Before about 1995 oil downs were regular occurrences at NHRA events. However, with the introduction of live television the organizers were forced to reduce the down time caused by them. One of the things they introduced was penalties. The offending racer is now fined and has championship points taken away from them if they oil the track and the clean up crew roll. I am not suggesting the same should be applied over here but at this years European finals there was too many leakers, for our own good. New spectators will get bored and not return, we took some with us and thats what they said, which is bad news all around. You will never eliminate oil downs and NHRA does not get it right all the time, for example at Richmond Virginia a few weeks ago our schedule was adrift by an hour after a pro stocker oiled the complete lane! No racer deliberately goes out knowing the thing will leak but we should use lessons learnt by NHRA.
That’s my thoughts
Herb
Edited by herb andrews on Thursday 2nd November 13:28
Edited by herb andrews on Thursday 2nd November 18:24
Or maybe, consider making all classes use diapers, except the bikes, of course.
For the Pro classes diapers have to be SFI 7.1, other classes do not necessarily have to go the expensive SFI route, but they could at least do something to minimise the downtime.
At the end of the day, the interuption to the racing hurts the Track Operator, the Spectators and the Racers themselves. Just a thought, now, no doubt, someone will shoot me down and say why it can't, shouldn't and won't be done..... but what better ideas are there ?
For the Pro classes diapers have to be SFI 7.1, other classes do not necessarily have to go the expensive SFI route, but they could at least do something to minimise the downtime.
At the end of the day, the interuption to the racing hurts the Track Operator, the Spectators and the Racers themselves. Just a thought, now, no doubt, someone will shoot me down and say why it can't, shouldn't and won't be done..... but what better ideas are there ?
That’s something that SCR has been looking into as oil clean-up material like the Berryman Green Stuff isn't cheap these days especially when the track owner has to put his hand in his pocket to cover other people’s mishaps.
Also with the escalating glue costs at the moment, oildown after oildown certainly eats into valuable race time, hence why costs mount up as you can appreciate. Let’s face it the NHRA approved race track The Strip at Las Vegas regularly fines racers for both oildown’s and antifreeze spills especially as synthetic oils and anti freeze are notorious to clean up on a prepped track.
Also with the escalating glue costs at the moment, oildown after oildown certainly eats into valuable race time, hence why costs mount up as you can appreciate. Let’s face it the NHRA approved race track The Strip at Las Vegas regularly fines racers for both oildown’s and antifreeze spills especially as synthetic oils and anti freeze are notorious to clean up on a prepped track.
herb andrews said:
...and it only started to pick up in the US after Don Garlits returned to racing full time in 1884
Gadzooks! But that made me chuckle, as a youngster i always did think he would race forever...
I do not think charging people for oil downs in this country is the way forward i am afraid and as crew, i dont appreciate talk like *having to put hands in pockets for racers*. Oil downs are "just one of those things", face it...its better than invaders from planet cloud.
I think they feel guilty enough as it is...put a broom in their hands if you feel they should be *punished*!
Miss Corrado said:
herb andrews said:
...and it only started to pick up in the US after Don Garlits returned to racing full time in 1884
Gadzooks! But that made me chuckle, as a youngster i always did think he would race forever...
I do not think charging people for oil downs in this country is the way forward i am afraid and as crew, i dont appreciate talk like *having to put hands in pockets for racers*. Oil downs are "just one of those things", face it...its better than invaders from planet cloud.
I think they feel guilty enough as it is...put a broom in their hands if you feel they should be *punished*!
Whilst I hate oildowns as much as the next man,I do always feel the non pro man has been punished enough by seeing countless thousands of dollars of aluminium lying on the track, not on the meticulously clean bench he built the motor on.
I would have said years ago, yes certain teams would have been more guilty of blow ups than others, these days the pros are leaning on the combinations MUCH more heavily.We want 4.5's, so deal with the oil downs.Its almost inevitable at that level I feel.Which I think is why there may be a move to run Fuel coupes at 5.0 all day, every day.Much cheaper, and still FUN.
Just my 2p worth.
F
Thanks for picking up my typo, I thought Don was looking a bit jaded!
Anyway, goes to show people are reading it.
24 TF's ran at Indy this year, ET's ranged from number 1 qualifier at 4.475 to 16th at 4.585. I recall that downtime during the 5 qualifying sessions was almost zero. I appreciate, in comparision the majority of teams in Europe are well under funded and are run by part time (read unpaid) crew and I do not think handing out fines will work, but something has to be done if the 'average/first time spectator' is going to keep come back. As I said NHRA was in this situation before about 1995 and they did something about it.
Herb
Anyway, goes to show people are reading it.
24 TF's ran at Indy this year, ET's ranged from number 1 qualifier at 4.475 to 16th at 4.585. I recall that downtime during the 5 qualifying sessions was almost zero. I appreciate, in comparision the majority of teams in Europe are well under funded and are run by part time (read unpaid) crew and I do not think handing out fines will work, but something has to be done if the 'average/first time spectator' is going to keep come back. As I said NHRA was in this situation before about 1995 and they did something about it.
Herb
Edited by herb andrews on Thursday 2nd November 22:48
LWG said:
Or maybe, consider making all classes use diapers, except the bikes, of course.
For the Pro classes diapers have to be SFI 7.1, other classes do not necessarily have to go the expensive SFI route, but they could at least do something to minimise the downtime.
At the end of the day, the interuption to the racing hurts the Track Operator, the Spectators and the Racers themselves. Just a thought, now, no doubt, someone will shoot me down and say why it can't, shouldn't and won't be done..... but what better ideas are there ?
For the Pro classes diapers have to be SFI 7.1, other classes do not necessarily have to go the expensive SFI route, but they could at least do something to minimise the downtime.
At the end of the day, the interuption to the racing hurts the Track Operator, the Spectators and the Racers themselves. Just a thought, now, no doubt, someone will shoot me down and say why it can't, shouldn't and won't be done..... but what better ideas are there ?
I am in full support of all racers running a diaper, and we are actively looking for an affordable one ourselves. I'm not sure if this should be mandatory or not, but if cheap non SFI diapers are in good supply then I wouldn't have a problem with it being mandatory.
The problem as I see it with punishing people for dropping oil is that it in some way suggests that the action of dropping oil was intentional and in some way avoidable. Occasionally this may be the case with people chasing a championship and taking a risk with a sub-optimal component in order to get points, but I don't believe this to be widespread. Last time we dropped oil on the track it was due to the catastrophic failure of an SFI spec damper which then destroyed the front oil seal - hardly intentional and not foreseeable. And in this case a diaper would not have prevented an oildown as some oil would have missed it.
I could possibly see an oildown points penalty working in the pro classes, but it would need to be implemented carefully with agreement from the teams for it to work - rather than being seen as punishing teams for oiling the track it might be seen as rewarding teams for reliability.
Time Machine said:
LWG said:
Or maybe, consider making all classes use diapers, except the bikes, of course.
For the Pro classes diapers have to be SFI 7.1, other classes do not necessarily have to go the expensive SFI route, but they could at least do something to minimise the downtime.
At the end of the day, the interuption to the racing hurts the Track Operator, the Spectators and the Racers themselves. Just a thought, now, no doubt, someone will shoot me down and say why it can't, shouldn't and won't be done..... but what better ideas are there ?
For the Pro classes diapers have to be SFI 7.1, other classes do not necessarily have to go the expensive SFI route, but they could at least do something to minimise the downtime.
At the end of the day, the interuption to the racing hurts the Track Operator, the Spectators and the Racers themselves. Just a thought, now, no doubt, someone will shoot me down and say why it can't, shouldn't and won't be done..... but what better ideas are there ?
I am in full support of all racers running a diaper, and we are actively looking for an affordable one ourselves. I'm not sure if this should be mandatory or not, but if cheap non SFI diapers are in good supply then I wouldn't have a problem with it being mandatory.
The problem as I see it with punishing people for dropping oil is that it in some way suggests that the action of dropping oil was intentional and in some way avoidable. Occasionally this may be the case with people chasing a championship and taking a risk with a sub-optimal component in order to get points, but I don't believe this to be widespread. Last time we dropped oil on the track it was due to the catastrophic failure of an SFI spec damper which then destroyed the front oil seal - hardly intentional and not foreseeable. And in this case a diaper would not have prevented an oildown as some oil would have missed it.
I could possibly see an oildown points penalty working in the pro classes, but it would need to be implemented carefully with agreement from the teams for it to work - rather than being seen as punishing teams for oiling the track it might be seen as rewarding teams for reliability.
Think this was brought up on dragster world, and i totally agree, some of the motors that run on the track are unfit to even run on the road, bags of shit. They should be to a standard, at the hot rod drags the amount of motors that drop mud onto the track, they should not be allowed to run in my eyes.
As for diapers, i think anything that goes on the track should have one. And it is common sense that only the faster cars have SFI gear but even cars like my T should have one, yes it only runs 11's at moment but it will still drop alot of oil onto the track!, and surely it is for the driver safety too! As oil and slicks dont mix too good.
Points taken off for oil downs is a good idea but like it has been said before, this would have to be set up very careful.
as posted on eurodragster.
tommy moller will not be running tf after this weekend.
running in a bike class instead.
the rest of the team will be competing with a aa/fc next year.
driver will not be named yet.
but the team is looking forward to it very much.
see you at the fireworks if your going.
cliff
tommy moller will not be running tf after this weekend.
running in a bike class instead.
the rest of the team will be competing with a aa/fc next year.
driver will not be named yet.
but the team is looking forward to it very much.
see you at the fireworks if your going.
cliff
Edited by blownalky on Friday 3rd November 22:47
The other car I am sure everybody would like to see out next year is Nobby Hills houndog. Their website shows the car well on the way to completion (may even be finished)so I guess its 'just' down to money. Nobby must be so frustrated, having put all that effort in and its just sitting there, so lets hope its out next year. Does anybody know if thats a real possibility?
Herb
Herb
Edited by herb andrews on Saturday 18th November 06:26
Hi All,
Well I don't want to post something out of turn, but I have been working with Nobby for the last year or so doing all the video work and some grpahics stuff. I can say that the plans are to get the engine fired up before the year is out and to have the car running for next season and actually putting down some numbers.
As I'm sure you can all imagine its pretty tough getting a car built and then running for a season and ultimately it does all come down to money. But this is going to be one hell of a car and team and I wish them all the luck in the world!
Well I don't want to post something out of turn, but I have been working with Nobby for the last year or so doing all the video work and some grpahics stuff. I can say that the plans are to get the engine fired up before the year is out and to have the car running for next season and actually putting down some numbers.
As I'm sure you can all imagine its pretty tough getting a car built and then running for a season and ultimately it does all come down to money. But this is going to be one hell of a car and team and I wish them all the luck in the world!
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