Honda S2000... widowmake
Discussion
so8 said:
I've just come back from over 1000 miles in a week driving the S2000 around practically every narrow country lane my wife could find 
Wet roads, fog, cold, mud .... and no problems whatsoever - it is just that right foot that is responsible for any grief the driver gets, not the car!
Wet roads, fog, cold, mud .... and no problems whatsoever - it is just that right foot that is responsible for any grief the driver gets, not the car!
Of course the right foot is the problem, I'm not sure if anybody would agree but some people may buy an S2000 thinking it is genuinely like an MX5 or equivalent, this maybe true if you don't drive it fast but it is a much quicker car and can catch you out if you don't respect that.
I certainly won't be changing my S02's but am wary when the conditions are poor. If you don't drive within the limitations of the car, road and weather then you will probably crash at some point.
odyssey2200 said:
I am supprised at this thread a bit
No one ever posts a thread asking if TVRs are a bit difficult in the damp?
Odyssey,
If you had seen some of the comments on S2k you would undertand why I raised the question.
IMO the S2000 is most likely to be assoicated with Boxster, Z4, cars which are not usually lablelled as a "widowmakers" even though powerful & rwd sportscars......
Where as I think its pretty much common knowledge in the car-nut community that TIV's can be handful its almost their USP, f-all weight, rwd, no driver aids & serious grunt
finchy said:
odyssey2200 said:
I am supprised at this thread a bit
No one ever posts a thread asking if TVRs are a bit difficult in the damp?
Odyssey,
If you had seen some of the comments on S2k you would undertand why I raised the question.
IMO the S2000 is most likely to be assoicated with Boxster, Z4, cars which are not usually lablelled as a "widowmakers" even though powerful & rwd sportscars......
Where as I think its pretty much common knowledge in the car-nut community that TIV's can be handful its almost their USP, f-all weight, rwd, no driver aids & serious grunt
Very true. Tiv's DEFINE hairy-chestedness. S2k's have a slight 'hairdresser' image, and are a direct alternative to what finchy mentioned, despite being designed from the start (soon after Box and well before Z4) as a moderately-hardcore, uncompromised sports car. If I can just sort the steering feel (better than before but still no 'teg/Focus) out I'll be very happy with mine!
RusS 2k said:
finchy said:
Pikey
top post's fella !
I only looked on S2k for general buying advice, then saw a 12 page thread of scare-mongering re spinning in damp/wet weather, impossible in snow etc etc.
Made me curious, I thought, if these cars are SO dangerous, "shirley" Honda wouldn't sell them & why do I see them driven in all weathers?
Hence this thread to sense check with the valued opinions of the PH massive, as A) if I get one, I'll want to drive it as much as poss & B)wouldnt want the Mrs to be at risk when driving it
O/T, so they do Bitburg at the 'ring even more reason to go
Thanks again all, for the excellent feedback
Finchy
I was responsible for starting that thread, it was a bit of sarcasm on my part and it got carried away! top post's fella !
I only looked on S2k for general buying advice, then saw a 12 page thread of scare-mongering re spinning in damp/wet weather, impossible in snow etc etc.
Made me curious, I thought, if these cars are SO dangerous, "shirley" Honda wouldn't sell them & why do I see them driven in all weathers?
Hence this thread to sense check with the valued opinions of the PH massive, as A) if I get one, I'll want to drive it as much as poss & B)wouldnt want the Mrs to be at risk when driving it
O/T, so they do Bitburg at the 'ring even more reason to go
Thanks again all, for the excellent feedback
Finchy
Wish I hadn't started it
Russ.
Edited by RusS 2k on Friday 29th December 11:17
Thanks for starting that thread.........
The more people put off buying them the more exclusive mine becomes ;-)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The driver crashes a car not the tyres or the car itself. If the tyres are low or rubbish then the driver should be driving within their limits.
havoc said:
finchy said:
odyssey2200 said:
I am supprised at this thread a bit
No one ever posts a thread asking if TVRs are a bit difficult in the damp?
Odyssey,
If you had seen some of the comments on S2k you would undertand why I raised the question.
IMO the S2000 is most likely to be assoicated with Boxster, Z4, cars which are not usually lablelled as a "widowmakers" even though powerful & rwd sportscars......
Where as I think its pretty much common knowledge in the car-nut community that TIV's can be handful its almost their USP, f-all weight, rwd, no driver aids & serious grunt
Very true. Tiv's DEFINE hairy-chestedness. S2k's have a slight 'hairdresser' image, and are a direct alternative to what finchy mentioned, despite being designed from the start (soon after Box and well before Z4) as a moderately-hardcore, uncompromised sports car. If I can just sort the steering feel (better than before but still no 'teg/Focus) out I'll be very happy with mine!
That hairdresser thing pisses me off, can people not come up with a new tag line, it's usually said by jealous people in shit cars, I mean FFS it's been bandied around by peasants since the MX5 came out over 15 years ago.
When was the last time you saw a hairdresser in a high performance 2 seater convertable? A 3 series maybe or street kak etc.
eddandsam1 said:
RusS 2k said:
finchy said:
Pikey
top post's fella !
I only looked on S2k for general buying advice, then saw a 12 page thread of scare-mongering re spinning in damp/wet weather, impossible in snow etc etc.
Made me curious, I thought, if these cars are SO dangerous, "shirley" Honda wouldn't sell them & why do I see them driven in all weathers?
Hence this thread to sense check with the valued opinions of the PH massive, as A) if I get one, I'll want to drive it as much as poss & B)wouldnt want the Mrs to be at risk when driving it
O/T, so they do Bitburg at the 'ring even more reason to go
Thanks again all, for the excellent feedback
Finchy
I was responsible for starting that thread, it was a bit of sarcasm on my part and it got carried away! top post's fella !
I only looked on S2k for general buying advice, then saw a 12 page thread of scare-mongering re spinning in damp/wet weather, impossible in snow etc etc.
Made me curious, I thought, if these cars are SO dangerous, "shirley" Honda wouldn't sell them & why do I see them driven in all weathers?
Hence this thread to sense check with the valued opinions of the PH massive, as A) if I get one, I'll want to drive it as much as poss & B)wouldnt want the Mrs to be at risk when driving it
O/T, so they do Bitburg at the 'ring even more reason to go
Thanks again all, for the excellent feedback
Finchy
Wish I hadn't started it
Russ.
Edited by RusS 2k on Friday 29th December 11:17
Thanks for starting that thread.........
The more people put off buying them the more exclusive mine becomes ;-)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The driver crashes a car not the tyres or the car itself. If the tyres are low or rubbish then the driver should be driving within their limits.
Like I said, I was taking the piss, then everyone jumped in, not my fault they cant handle the S.
I concur with all the guys - Mine is ace! I can get the back ou whenever I want to an it is fine on the limit - it's knowing where the limits are. What I also did - I have a 2003 - was stick on a set of 2004 rims with the RE050s. This wasn't so much for the wet weather issue as I'm in Dubai, but to sharpen up the handling slightly as the aspect ratio of the tyre is lower. It's made a big difference and handles brilliantly.
The pre 2004 cars have a harsher set up and use the S02s to provide some of the handling charactaistics (even though they do have very stiff walls).
Go for it - you won't be disappointed - and remember the first thing you should upgrade with a performance car is the driver - that makes the biggest difference.
The pre 2004 cars have a harsher set up and use the S02s to provide some of the handling charactaistics (even though they do have very stiff walls).
Go for it - you won't be disappointed - and remember the first thing you should upgrade with a performance car is the driver
- that makes the biggest difference.I've had my s2k for just over a month now, and love it! I use it every day and have had no problems with it (apart from the first evening getting out of shape coming off a round about in the wet but that was only from the lead in my right foot ). This is my first RWD car, but i do ride bikes which i passed the iam test on last year and have found alot of which i learned useful when driving the s. Relevant to this thread things such as throttle control ,taking things into account like condition of the road , weather and tyres. There probably are more but i wont go on and bore you. I intend to do some on track training too , to learn how to handle the car at speed. As a few of you have already said upgrade the driver not just the car. Happy and safe driving!
ITR...you do get used to it. A few pointers from someone who was in your position 9 months ago:-
Get the geometry sorted...some useful info on S2ki.co.uk, but PM me if you prefer and I'll tell you what I did and why...did some research into the effects of geo changes first, and know a good Midlands place to get it done properly.*
If on the original S02's, take it very easy until they've warmed up. Terrible when cold, but once warm they're OK in the wet unless there's standing water, where you may find the car's behaviour produces a laxative effect on the driver!
If you've zero track experience (doubtful given your last car!) then do something like a skid-pan course or some karting, just so as you're familiar with the practice of oversteer not just the theory.
Be smooth with the pedals and steering...and keep a good eye on road surface as you've said...and the car should be fine. I drove it home last Saturday in the wet, driving moderately quickly, and there was only one occasion where the back shifted when I didn't provoke it...and that apparently is a notorious spot for rwd trouble in the wet...and it was proved quite quick to detect and catch.
* Also, unless your car is new, read up on suspension adj. bolts...again S2ki.co.uk or PM me for more details. Best checked at the same time as doing the geo.
Get the geometry sorted...some useful info on S2ki.co.uk, but PM me if you prefer and I'll tell you what I did and why...did some research into the effects of geo changes first, and know a good Midlands place to get it done properly.*
If on the original S02's, take it very easy until they've warmed up. Terrible when cold, but once warm they're OK in the wet unless there's standing water, where you may find the car's behaviour produces a laxative effect on the driver!
If you've zero track experience (doubtful given your last car!
) then do something like a skid-pan course or some karting, just so as you're familiar with the practice of oversteer not just the theory. Be smooth with the pedals and steering...and keep a good eye on road surface as you've said...and the car should be fine. I drove it home last Saturday in the wet, driving moderately quickly, and there was only one occasion where the back shifted when I didn't provoke it...and that apparently is a notorious spot for rwd trouble in the wet...and it was proved quite quick to detect and catch.
* Also, unless your car is new, read up on suspension adj. bolts...again S2ki.co.uk or PM me for more details. Best checked at the same time as doing the geo.
I'm a TVR Cerbera owner, but thinking about changing to an S2000, so I hooked on to this thread, and found it interesting reading all these comments about the S2000's 'back end snapping out' ability.
Heres 2 snippets of info and History about Honda....
* They consider Turbocharging an engine 'dishonourable' - i.e it's cheating, so they concentrate on getting all the power they can from an engine through engineering skill.
* All the Chief Executives of Honda have come from an Engineering Discipline - all other Car companies promote from Sales or Accounting.
In other words they are Engineers, and build cars for a purpose. The purpose of the S2000 was to build a drivers car, and thats what is is. A powerful RWD car with no artificial aids to it, it relieson the driver to control it, not the car control the driver.
The Cayman has electronic wizardy that controls the car, that doesnt make it a better car.
Honda can do it if they wanted, the new Legend follows the white line in the road, and steers for the driver, it has electronic wizardry in the form of super advanced traction control on all 4 wheels, far more ssophisticated than anything Porsche can do, so if Honda wanted the S2000 to 'better' the Cayman (But who defines better - an Engineer or an Accountant?) they could do it to the S2000. But they don't, and so we have the S2000, a powerful RWD car, with no aids, that is a drivers car.
PS Sorry for the rant - I'll go and chill out now and have some Herbal tobacco from the health shop
Heres 2 snippets of info and History about Honda....
* They consider Turbocharging an engine 'dishonourable' - i.e it's cheating, so they concentrate on getting all the power they can from an engine through engineering skill.
* All the Chief Executives of Honda have come from an Engineering Discipline - all other Car companies promote from Sales or Accounting.
In other words they are Engineers, and build cars for a purpose. The purpose of the S2000 was to build a drivers car, and thats what is is. A powerful RWD car with no artificial aids to it, it relieson the driver to control it, not the car control the driver.
The Cayman has electronic wizardy that controls the car, that doesnt make it a better car.
Honda can do it if they wanted, the new Legend follows the white line in the road, and steers for the driver, it has electronic wizardry in the form of super advanced traction control on all 4 wheels, far more ssophisticated than anything Porsche can do, so if Honda wanted the S2000 to 'better' the Cayman (But who defines better - an Engineer or an Accountant?) they could do it to the S2000. But they don't, and so we have the S2000, a powerful RWD car, with no aids, that is a drivers car.
PS Sorry for the rant - I'll go and chill out now and have some Herbal tobacco from the health shop
Compared to your Cerb the Honda will be a paragon of good manners. As I said, driving it fairly-swiftly in the wet the other day the only unexpected twitch from mine was at a fairly notorious corner.
It's only people coming from FWD who don't realise you need to drive it differently (esp. in the wet) that have bother...oh, and occasionally those who've owned it a while and get over-confident!
It's only people coming from FWD who don't realise you need to drive it differently (esp. in the wet) that have bother...oh, and occasionally those who've owned it a while and get over-confident!
Oi
The general concensus is that the condition of the stock S02 tyres on the pre-04s was responsible for the majority of "moments". Even before they get anywhere near illegal, the compound loses a lot of effectiveness. 3mm is generally a good time to change 'em.
I agree...www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=441995&st=75
horza said:
The general concensus is that the condition of the stock S02 tyres on the pre-04s was responsible for the majority of "moments". Even before they get anywhere near illegal, the compound loses a lot of effectiveness. 3mm is generally a good time to change 'em.
Hmmm...a tyre known to have narrow tread and to take a while to warm up...and you'd drive on it in the wet with less than 3mm? Sounds like driver-error to me!!! :0
Seriously...people blame the S02's, and they're not the best in the wet...but given time to warm up they're not THAT lethal...certainly not compared to stuff like a modern TVR (cerb onwards) on ANY tyres.
I suspect another contributing factor is the amount of diesel on the roads in the winter and the fact that the S2000 reacts very differently to all fwd cars and to some (mainstream) rwd cars...i.e. it oversteers. I know I've had a couple of diesel-inspired moments.
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