RE: Honda Civic Type R
Discussion
I hate to say it, but how can Honda say the extra 40kg has been *offset* by closer gearing?
Fair enough it'll feel livelier, but it's still got less bhp/tonne however you look at it.
Closer gearing won't do bugger all for the dynamic effects the 40kg adds either.
Infact the closer gearing has simply *masked* the added weight by making it feel like any comparable gear to the old model has similar verve, even though you will actually be going slower per gear and only with a thrust comparable to the old one. Ie, it will be slower.
Yay!
Dave
Fair enough it'll feel livelier, but it's still got less bhp/tonne however you look at it.
Closer gearing won't do bugger all for the dynamic effects the 40kg adds either.
Infact the closer gearing has simply *masked* the added weight by making it feel like any comparable gear to the old model has similar verve, even though you will actually be going slower per gear and only with a thrust comparable to the old one. Ie, it will be slower.
Yay!
Dave
PJ S said:
Maybe moving my head allowed me to see whatever there may have been behind me!
Oddly enough I sat in my work colleagues 1.8 Civic and could only just see the roof of my 306 parked behind it.
The rear view is great if your going up hill and looking for a minibus or lorry behind you, but I'd not be keen manoeuvering in a car park with one!
Dave
Honda have done two things to make it seem as quick/ quicker. One is obvious, as they spout about it all the time- lower the gearing. The other is more subliminal- they've made sure the induction roar is more prominant, a bit like the old B16s, to make it sound faster.
I find it hard to sound anything other than vitriolic about the new 'Type-R', as it's a very very long way from being an example of what Honda could do with it, from an engineering point of view.
I find it hard to sound anything other than vitriolic about the new 'Type-R', as it's a very very long way from being an example of what Honda could do with it, from an engineering point of view.
10 Pence Short said:
Compared to nice, ergonomic dash designs of the past, this Honda effort is just a mass of buttons shotgunned into the car.
Arggggh, what have they done!?
Arggggh, what have they done!?
What they have done is make a dash that works so well that after driving a Civic for just a few miles "normal" dashboards feel ill thought out and ergonomically backwards. I think its called "blank sheet of paper thinking" (or something more posh that means the same thing)
If you try driving one you may well end up finding out that every control is exactly where it should be and within easy reach of the driver. The layout makes perfect sence from the drivers seat and you never have to hunt for a control, its all there, easy to use, logically laid out and far far better than any other car in its class.
I may be bias, but I turned my nose up slightly when I first saw a picture of the dash. One test drive later I was totally convinced and won over. Car standard car drives far better than motoring writers would have you believe too
Civpilot said:
10 Pence Short said:
Compared to nice, ergonomic dash designs of the past, this Honda effort is just a mass of buttons shotgunned into the car.
Arggggh, what have they done!?
Arggggh, what have they done!?
What they have done is make a dash that works so well that after driving a Civic for just a few miles "normal" dashboards feel ill thought out and ergonomically backwards. I think its called "blank sheet of paper thinking" (or something more posh that means the same thing)
If you try driving one you may well end up finding out that every control is exactly where it should be and within easy reach of the driver. The layout makes perfect sence from the drivers seat and you never have to hunt for a control, its all there, easy to use, logically laid out and far far better than any other car in its class.
I may be bias, but I turned my nose up slightly when I first saw a picture of the dash. One test drive later I was totally convinced and won over. Car standard car drives far better than motoring writers would have you believe too
I've driven quite a few miles in the current Civic. The layout is very distracting in the name of being 'different'. There are buttons and digital displays mounted everywhere, and I can't see a good reason for it. I find the analogue dials in the previous cars easier to read and more condusive to attentive driving. No doubt 'dials' are less of a pub brag, but then I don't drive a car for that reason.
The very basic layout of Hondas in the past has been one of their strengths- it might not look pretty, but it's bloody well screwed together, everything's to hand and it doesn't rattle. The real time was spent on engineering the oily bits. With this, I'm not so sure.
Someone please explain to me WHY a boggo spec Fiseta/Focus...or Civic has a/c as standard but NOT the type R? Could it be because Honda know everyone wants a/c so will by default pay an extra £1k to get it on the "GT" version...what a skank!! DOes the Type R not have xenon lights? if it does i cant see the washers??
potatoboy666 said:
Bias?
I think PistonHonda are making sure we know the Type R is back with all sorts of adverts and natty little subliminals.........very odd, they do seem to have a vested interest.
....But last month CAR Mag didn't exactly give it a glowing report, reading it a second time it appears the article was on total speculation and no actual driving of the car was done.
This month they have now driven it and had a shootout with;
Cooper S
Clio 197
130i
C30 T5
S3
R32
GTi 30
Focus ST
Astra VXR
Leon FR
Mazda 3 MPS
Look away if you don't want to know.............................
Opinions have changed and they got down to 2 cars, the Golf and the Civic.....
"The Civic's Nike-on-wheels looks and its futuristic dash may be a step too far for some, but get over it, book yourself a test drive. You'll be hooked. To drive the new Civic Type R is to find petrolhead nirvana. It will be remembered as one of the true greats."
A bold statement, certainly worth a test drive at least to make up your own mind and will be interesting to see what the rest of the motoring press say this week....
I don't really get the idea of treating these hatchbacks with puny torque as fun to drive, unless you thrash them like a 17 year old to keep the engine on the boil. I bought my wife the 1.8 petrol last year and it's fine for transporting the baby and shopping, but it's rarely in a low enough gear to respond quickly to any need for immediate speed. Isn't this just another XR3i?
Fantic SuperT said:
I don't really get the idea of treating these hatchbacks with puny torque as fun to drive...
No, but lots of people do.
Little things like:-
- throttle response
- a NICE engine note, not a god-awful whine
- lighter weight (well, usually. Not sure what happened with this one)
- and, dare I mention it, fuel economy!
VTEC is a very 'marmite' thing. If you don't like it/get it, fine, plenty of FI cars around to make that chore of driving easier. Some even come with an auto-box so you don't have to change those nasty gears yourself!!!
10 Pence Short said:
Compared to nice, ergonomic dash designs of the past, this Honda effort is just a mass of buttons shotgunned into the car.
Arggggh, what have they done!?
Arggggh, what have they done!?
10 Pence Short said:
Honda have done two things to make it seem as quick/ quicker. One is obvious, as they spout about it all the time- lower the gearing. The other is more subliminal- they've made sure the induction roar is more prominant, a bit like the old B16s, to make it sound faster.
I find it hard to sound anything other than vitriolic about the new 'Type-R', as it's a very very long way from being an example of what Honda could do with it, from an engineering point of view.
I find it hard to sound anything other than vitriolic about the new 'Type-R', as it's a very very long way from being an example of what Honda could do with it, from an engineering point of view.
Agreed with all of that. And I sympathise with you Dan...wanted this one to be more than / better than this parody of a Type-R. Hope this is just the warm-up for a later, PROPER version.
Oh...potatoman -
Fantic SuperT said:
I don't really get the idea of treating these hatchbacks with puny torque as fun to drive, unless you thrash them like a 17 year old to keep the engine on the boil. I bought my wife the 1.8 petrol last year and it's fine for transporting the baby and shopping, but it's rarely in a low enough gear to respond quickly to any need for immediate speed. Isn't this just another XR3i?
There is a difference with the 1.8 and the 2.0 Type R, nothing huge but still a noteable difference.
The thing with these engines are they rev high and peak power is high, so if you want to "enjoy" it you need to give that titanium stick a bit of a stir.
What are you expecting from a 1.8. 7.76 sec (there abouts) 0-60 for a 1.8 pretty good I say, wish my MKIII could do that. The old MKII no problem.
If you want good response in a high gear maybe the wife and baby need a Zonda for Christmas
OR just get a diesel next time that's what tractors are for, lazy people.
This is a good site to get some figures.
www.letstorquebhp.com/fwd.asp
Edited by Jizz Monkey on Tuesday 30th January 22:10
Fantic SuperT said:
I don't really get the idea of treating these hatchbacks with puny torque as fun to drive, unless you thrash them like a 17 year old to keep the engine on the boil. I bought my wife the 1.8 petrol last year and it's fine for transporting the baby and shopping, but it's rarely in a low enough gear to respond quickly to any need for immediate speed. Isn't this just another XR3i?
To be fair, the 1.8 (Sport) has the VTEC-E powerplant which is designed for economy whilst delivering a peaky BHP figure. Like previous Civics (i have an old 1.5) it's gutless if you're out of the VTEC zone, but i don't think the XR3i would give you a combined 45mpg
My dad was looking this model, but i've steered him towards the 2.2 diesel which has better fuel economy & oodles of lbft. Edited by fido on Wednesday 31st January 00:49
mafioso said:
It's pretty horrible! Looks to big and high up! The dash is too complicated and digital. All you want from a driver's car is a wheel, three pedals and a stick! Non of this SAT NAV crap!! AND, it's FWD!!!
Well, you would say that driving a KA!!! possibly the worst car I have ever driven in the rain - on a par with my old Mk11 Fiesta!
Hmmm... I don't know about anyone else, but I'm finding it quite hard nowadays to treat reviews like this, now in this more commercially focused webspace, with the same respect for its impartiality and critique that used to exist prior to the commercial presence which now pervades the look and feel of this site.
As a compulsive visitor, this makes me quite sad and I fear that I will one day completely lose interest entirely.
As a compulsive visitor, this makes me quite sad and I fear that I will one day completely lose interest entirely.
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