RE: NSX won't be a drinker
Discussion
alex_123_fra said:
joz8968 said:
gizmo.mp3 said:
alex_123_fra said:
Honda will need to start being impressive in F1 again if they are going to excite anyone about this car...especially if it is to be a V10.
Remind me how many cylinders the engine in the back of Button-san's company motor has?
/pedant
Ha. You beat me to it!
Not sure if he still has his "company" NSX
. In terms of F1 engine cylinders, whether they use the RA806E (in super-aguri hat) or RA807E, how reliable and how well they perform will be intimately related to the sales of a future supercar model (whether that turns out to be a V10 or a V8 is irrelevant). Sure. I was just trying to be clever for the sake of it
... [I've already got me coat] joz8968 said:
swoll said:
Stands to reason that they need to do something different with the new NSX as the woeful sales of the old model are the reason it went out of production.
The problem (and it's been well documented) was this: A Nissan at c.70K, regardless of how wonderful the NSX is. Badge snobbery is an unfortunate thing, although I can understand it at these sort of prices...
Did anyone notice the [ahem] deliberate mistake. (There's a pratfall-and-a-half).
ABORT. roll it back 3 years.
jump-start the HSC... but shrink it to elise length or 7/8 scale and put the blown turbo-4 from the RDX in it, with more boost and variable-vane turbos and RWD. Done. it should weigh LESS and have same power or LESS than the previous NSX. No mainstream manufacturer is going after that gap.... except maybe porsche...
The NSX should really have the Cayman and Cayman S as its target, not a ferrari f430, 911 turbo, or even a z06. (actually, especially the z06 if the ASCC and it's 28 mpg, 500 hp long-front design is anything to go by).
If honda offered Cayman S performance at Cayman price in an nsx replacement that looked like the better parts of the hsc, it'd be a big seller. maybe even profitable given the size of the prospective buyer pool. (a 50k honda in 2007 compared to a 70k honda in 1992? with equal or better performance? no brainer, that's a better position)
The nsx didn't sell for the same reason the phaeton didn't sell. Bitchin' car, wrong badge for the price. And polarizing styling...
some ppl will defend the nsx's beauty to the death, others think it looks like a testarossa styling study that acura fished out of ferrari's garbage or that it is too long for what it is..., just like some ppl think the phaeton is a drop dead gorgeous big-body sedan while others think the ford taurus has it covered. Adding performance and exclusivity won't do anything so long as honda's badge can be seen on a fit.
Ferrari and Aston don't sell a fit competitor, and the only chevrolet sells doesn't discount the appeal of the corvette because it's almost its own brand in the eyes of its buyers.
jump-start the HSC... but shrink it to elise length or 7/8 scale and put the blown turbo-4 from the RDX in it, with more boost and variable-vane turbos and RWD. Done. it should weigh LESS and have same power or LESS than the previous NSX. No mainstream manufacturer is going after that gap.... except maybe porsche...
The NSX should really have the Cayman and Cayman S as its target, not a ferrari f430, 911 turbo, or even a z06. (actually, especially the z06 if the ASCC and it's 28 mpg, 500 hp long-front design is anything to go by).
If honda offered Cayman S performance at Cayman price in an nsx replacement that looked like the better parts of the hsc, it'd be a big seller. maybe even profitable given the size of the prospective buyer pool. (a 50k honda in 2007 compared to a 70k honda in 1992? with equal or better performance? no brainer, that's a better position)
The nsx didn't sell for the same reason the phaeton didn't sell. Bitchin' car, wrong badge for the price. And polarizing styling...
some ppl will defend the nsx's beauty to the death, others think it looks like a testarossa styling study that acura fished out of ferrari's garbage or that it is too long for what it is..., just like some ppl think the phaeton is a drop dead gorgeous big-body sedan while others think the ford taurus has it covered. Adding performance and exclusivity won't do anything so long as honda's badge can be seen on a fit.
Ferrari and Aston don't sell a fit competitor, and the only chevrolet sells doesn't discount the appeal of the corvette because it's almost its own brand in the eyes of its buyers.
Lets face some reality here. When the new head of Honda started his post a year or so again he announced that they were going to move away from the performance car part of the market (which incidentally has effectively crashed in Japan), and move towards the profitable SUV/people carrier end. As a result, all we hear about a new NSX is rumours, there is no word of a replacement S2000 (now seriously late), and the only R-Types produced in the last several generations of existing cars has been the Civic, which was made over here in the UK, not in Japan (though the old model was shipped back to the Nippon and re-suspensioned).
I'd love to see a new NSX, and not that US targetted monstrosity in the article, however it will also need pricing properly. The real killer for the last one was that it was priced to match the low end Ferraris and Porsches, where badge snobbery does count (as some one else has already mentioned), where as it's real rivals were the Mazda RX-7 FD3, Nissan Skyline GT-R (33 and 34) and Toyota Supra Turbo, all of which cost considerably less to buy.
I'd love to see a new NSX, and not that US targetted monstrosity in the article, however it will also need pricing properly. The real killer for the last one was that it was priced to match the low end Ferraris and Porsches, where badge snobbery does count (as some one else has already mentioned), where as it's real rivals were the Mazda RX-7 FD3, Nissan Skyline GT-R (33 and 34) and Toyota Supra Turbo, all of which cost considerably less to buy.
ec523 said:
I doubt this will be worthy of the NSX badge the last one co developed by the late great Ayrton Senna...was a dream and a challenge.
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How much development work did he actually do? My understanding was he did a few laps in a prototype very late in the development cycle.
danmangt40 said:
The nsx didn't sell for the same reason the phaeton didn't sell. Bitchin' car, wrong badge for the price. And polarizing styling...
Absolutely, the NSX was a sales flop. Honda built a car that could out perform the period 911 and Ferrari 348. But given the choice of a Honda, Porsche or a Ferrari where did all the buyers go?
Honda would be stupid to repeat the same formula as the old NSX.
joz8968 said:
swoll said:
Stands to reason that they need to do something different with the new NSX as the woeful sales of the old model are the reason it went out of production.
The problem (and it's been well documented) was this: A Nissan at c.70K, regardless of how wonderful the NSX is. Badge snobbery is an unfortunate thing, although I can understand it at these sort of prices...
Holy shit. Please. Stop. Speaking.
Nissan? WTF?
FWIW, I don't think this would be an NSX equivalent. It's too big, too heavy etc. IMHO the car in these pictures wouldn't have a 5 litre V10 either. By the time Honda got it into production it might have a hybrid powertrain featuring a smaller capacity V6 or 8 and electric motors. Then it could be 500bhp and do 30 mpg.
21st century Honda can't manage a more economical replacement vehicle?
It ought to be an ultrafast, ultraclean, ultralight goer powered by (maybe) an electric motor in each wheel hub.
Anything less then 50 mpg is so last-century -- gawd, even my load-lugging Astra estate gives me 42+ mpg.
It ought to be an ultrafast, ultraclean, ultralight goer powered by (maybe) an electric motor in each wheel hub.
Anything less then 50 mpg is so last-century -- gawd, even my load-lugging Astra estate gives me 42+ mpg.
Of course, the new one will probably be launched as an Acura over here, not a Honda.
That will appease the vacuous badge-snobs. Yeah, right.
FWIW, the original NSX is an irreplaceably beautiful car and I'm pleased most don't understand what an excellent luxury car it is.
Hopefully, we'll get an HSC (rebodied NSX!) as the Honda flagship and the ASCC as the Acura flashpig.
Otherwise, in the words of Peter Cook, they're sunk!
That will appease the vacuous badge-snobs. Yeah, right.
FWIW, the original NSX is an irreplaceably beautiful car and I'm pleased most don't understand what an excellent luxury car it is.
Hopefully, we'll get an HSC (rebodied NSX!) as the Honda flagship and the ASCC as the Acura flashpig.
Otherwise, in the words of Peter Cook, they're sunk!
The NSX replacement needs to be light weight, midengined, 450HP plus, and a genuine rival for the F430 at 2/3 the price. If its not it WILL fail!
If Honda launch anything vaguely resembling that concept car they are fools. I think they have either completely lost the plot or this is all a clever misdirection policy and they are going to stun us with the launch car next year. Yeh some hope!
That 2005 concept car they showed was way better and genuinely looked promising. Whats gone wrong!
If Honda launch anything vaguely resembling that concept car they are fools. I think they have either completely lost the plot or this is all a clever misdirection policy and they are going to stun us with the launch car next year. Yeh some hope!
That 2005 concept car they showed was way better and genuinely looked promising. Whats gone wrong!
ferrisbueller said:
joz8968 said:
swoll said:
Stands to reason that they need to do something different with the new NSX as the woeful sales of the old model are the reason it went out of production.
The problem (and it's been well documented) was this: A Nissan at c.70K, regardless of how wonderful the NSX is. Badge snobbery is an unfortunate thing, although I can understand it at these sort of prices...
Holy shit. Please. Stop. Speaking.
Nissan? WTF?
I know. I know. I did acknowledge my (admittedly ridiculous) faux pas if you'd have cared to look furher up the page...
I took advantage of my position as proprietor of an NSX 4 hours ago, and believe me on the roads I drove I don't need more power. Give me the same (I mean the quality, the tactile engine, the amazing gearchange) but just add a touch more delicacy to the control surfaces, update the systems and 'add lightness' as Chapman might say. You've got an amazing package with Cayman S+ performance, Mondeo useability, Honda running costs and Veyron rarity
Edited by trackdemon on Thursday 26th April 23:03
trackdemon said:
I took advantage of my position as propriator of an NSX 4 hours ago, and believe me on the roads I drove I don't need more power. Give me the same (I mean the quality, the tactile engine, the amazing gearchange) but just add a touch more delicacy to the control surfaces, update the systems and 'add lightness' as Chapman might say. You've got an amazing package with Cayman S+ performance, Mondeo useability, Honda running costs and Veyron rarity
Agreed.
They need to make a 50k NSX and, if they must, a 60-70k technological showpiece called something entirely different.
ferrisbueller said:
trackdemon said:
I took advantage of my position as propriator of an NSX 4 hours ago, and believe me on the roads I drove I don't need more power. Give me the same (I mean the quality, the tactile engine, the amazing gearchange) but just add a touch more delicacy to the control surfaces, update the systems and 'add lightness' as Chapman might say. You've got an amazing package with Cayman S+ performance, Mondeo useability, Honda running costs and Veyron rarity
Agreed.
They need to make a 50k NSX and, if they must, a 60-70k technological showpiece called something entirely different.
They could just put the NSX back into production. I think its that good
trackdemon said:
ferrisbueller said:
trackdemon said:
I took advantage of my position as propriator of an NSX 4 hours ago, and believe me on the roads I drove I don't need more power. Give me the same (I mean the quality, the tactile engine, the amazing gearchange) but just add a touch more delicacy to the control surfaces, update the systems and 'add lightness' as Chapman might say. You've got an amazing package with Cayman S+ performance, Mondeo useability, Honda running costs and Veyron rarity
Agreed.
They need to make a 50k NSX and, if they must, a 60-70k technological showpiece called something entirely different.
They could just put the NSX back into production. I think its that good
A reskin and a new interior and you wouldn't be far wrong.
ferrisbueller said:
trackdemon said:
I took advantage of my position as propriator of an NSX 4 hours ago, and believe me on the roads I drove I don't need more power. Give me the same (I mean the quality, the tactile engine, the amazing gearchange) but just add a touch more delicacy to the control surfaces, update the systems and 'add lightness' as Chapman might say. You've got an amazing package with Cayman S+ performance, Mondeo useability, Honda running costs and Veyron rarity
Agreed.
They need to make a 50k NSX and, if they must, a 60-70k technological showpiece called something entirely different.
Hard to do given the Legend is pushing £40K.
Granted the NSX is a different beast, but the price would probably end up nearer £60-65K.
I don't think, nor see a need for, another white elephant in this day and age unless they go racing with it at Le Mans or whatever the Series is with the Lister Storms and so forth.
They just need to actually market the thing better. The NSX was woefully inadequately marketed, and that as much as badge snobbery at the time was the reason it never got chosen by those paying the asking price for such cars.
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