Chavving up my S2K
Discussion
Jonesy CRX_Turbo said:
That wasn't aimed at anyone in a sh**ty way and I'm not saying the K&N doesn't have power figures to back it up. I'm simply saying the S2000 engine like all the top end Honda engines have undergone a lot of R&D and it's very hard to improve on it. That's why IN MY OPINION i wouldn't go anywhere near a filter that was in the engine bay.
You're absolutely right, in my opinion. For road use, the S's breathing is fine - Honda's labs are always going to be more presice than anything we (as owners) can say. Personally I put an HKS exhaust on and removed the airbox lid but I was under no misapprehensions that it was only for the noise.If you want to increase track performance, put in a single exit exhaust, a complimentary intake AND remap the ECU.
Do just one of the above and you're wasting your money and fooling yourself.
I have tried to find one cheaper ovr here but no joy. Does look like a bit of a beast, It seem to be almost the same size as the engine block! God knows what it would sound like, think I will have to wait a coule of years before I find out. Thanks for posting the oic for me.
Completely agree about the re=-map in order to get the true benefit. Main reason for the mods is for noise. Mighrt get a bit more out of it but doubt it will be anything noticable. I looked at a single exhaust but the car looks so much better with twins so have sacrificed performance for looks. I have thought about the re-map but as has been said, honda have tweaked it a hell of a lot and it's hard to get anything extra withought a SCand I really can't afford one of them at the moment. Do you think that re-mapping with the exhaust and induction kit on her is worth it? If it's not going to make much difference then I would rather put the money towards new wheels and a brace. So long as it sounds faster that will do me for now!
Completely agree about the re=-map in order to get the true benefit. Main reason for the mods is for noise. Mighrt get a bit more out of it but doubt it will be anything noticable. I looked at a single exhaust but the car looks so much better with twins so have sacrificed performance for looks. I have thought about the re-map but as has been said, honda have tweaked it a hell of a lot and it's hard to get anything extra withought a SCand I really can't afford one of them at the moment. Do you think that re-mapping with the exhaust and induction kit on her is worth it? If it's not going to make much difference then I would rather put the money towards new wheels and a brace. So long as it sounds faster that will do me for now!
Edited by Royden on Sunday 15th July 16:55
When you fit a free flowing filter and a nice exhaust to a car that revs as high as the S they'll usually start running lean as you're getting more air with the same amount of fuel. Too many people think just bolt on the bits and everything will be fine and they're missing out on some of the benefits of well set up parts.
If i was you i'd get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator at the same time and do a proper job!!
Have you looked at Powerhouse Amuse exhaust systems? They're quite expensive but their twin pipe system still guarantees power and it sounds amazing!!!
And it's titaniummmmmmmmm!!!
If i was you i'd get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator at the same time and do a proper job!!
Have you looked at Powerhouse Amuse exhaust systems? They're quite expensive but their twin pipe system still guarantees power and it sounds amazing!!!
And it's titaniummmmmmmmm!!!
You can use something simple like an FSE Power boost valve (ignore the boy racer name!) as i have and haven't had any probs with it. This cost me £105 and works excellently, you can also get the fuel pressure guage that mounts to it for £15. Alternativly you can get a shiney bit from anyone such as AEM or SARD etc but i think they're a bit more expensive. I'd recommend the FSE as it's cheapish, easy to adjust and has worked on my turbo B series for 2years with no probs at all.
This is going to sound very stupid but can someone tell me what they do? I understand the principles of increased air in nand quicker away, and also about how re-mapping adjusts the set up to take account of the new fuel / air balance. I take it that the regulator adjusts the amount of fuel to match the increased air intake?
A regulator is a very basic way of altering the fuelling, essentially you are just adding or removing fuel everywhere, i.e. a mechanical device which has a nut which is turned to lower or raise fuel pressure.
With a remap you are altering the software settings of the ECU. New parts are fitted, AFR's are measured and changes in the fuel map are made where needed to ensure the correct AFR is being acheived.
Sard FPR's are only £60 or so, mine was less than that
With a remap you are altering the software settings of the ECU. New parts are fitted, AFR's are measured and changes in the fuel map are made where needed to ensure the correct AFR is being acheived.
Sard FPR's are only £60 or so, mine was less than that
Edited by Marf on Monday 16th July 21:57
A fuel pressure regulator is the first step in the fuelling upgrade process as far as i'm concerned. No matter what state of tune the engines in you need an adjustable one! From this you can expand to larger capacity pumps and higher flow injectors etc but you still need adjustability of the pressure and flow to the injectors. The regulator is then adjusted (via a nut on the top) to allow sufficient fuel for the modifications/mapping. This is an area frequently overlooked and seen as not really that important. A lean engine is not going to last long or be reliable long term
There's alot of SARD ones on ebay at the mo but the FSE is so easy to buy as an exact fitted kit. Having not fitted one of the SARD ones myself in my opinion the FSE is the easiest/straight forward way to proceed (anyone correct me if i'm wrong though!!!).
Simply put the more air in the more fuel is needed. With something as simple as filter/exhaust/remap a few psi of extra fuel pressure through the standard injectors will safely cover you!!
There's alot of SARD ones on ebay at the mo but the FSE is so easy to buy as an exact fitted kit. Having not fitted one of the SARD ones myself in my opinion the FSE is the easiest/straight forward way to proceed (anyone correct me if i'm wrong though!!!).
Simply put the more air in the more fuel is needed. With something as simple as filter/exhaust/remap a few psi of extra fuel pressure through the standard injectors will safely cover you!!
Edited by Jonesy CRX_Turbo on Monday 16th July 23:50
Jonesy CRX_Turbo said:
...a few psi of extra fuel pressure through the standard injectors will safely cover you!!
If it was only that easy...
Without a properly remapped ECU and properly set-up FPR, you run the risk of running way too rich, which will end up fouling the plugs and possibly damaging the cat. converter as you end up with unburnt fuel going out of the exhaust.
Too rich is safer than too lean...to a degree (engines tend to have a fair bit of 'tolerance' built into them), but I still wouldn't go fitting a new, higher-output FPR and then turning the wick up to see what happens.
The few extra psi was meant with the remap!!!! I'm just saying that a few psi is all that's really needed for basic modifications. Running 7psi boost my fuel pressure only needed a 3psi rise to get a good AFR. In my eyes doing any ignition/boost or fuelling changes you should always have it set up together and mapped properly.
A fuel pressure regulator is just another tool to assist in this.
A fuel pressure regulator is just another tool to assist in this.
I'd go so far as to say that if your remapping an NA car after simply fitting an exhaust and induction kit, a FPR wont be needed. The fuelling requirements won't have changed enough to warrant increased fuel pressure.
Sure if you've added a turbo a decent FPR which increases pressure with boost would be needed.
WRT to FSE regulators, I've heard some awfully costly horror stories on GTR.co.uk and scoobynet about them failing mid dyno mapping session on some big power cars. FSE apparently werent interested in solving the problem until some people sent a faulty unit directly to the MD of the company along with a snotty letter
Sure if you've added a turbo a decent FPR which increases pressure with boost would be needed.
WRT to FSE regulators, I've heard some awfully costly horror stories on GTR.co.uk and scoobynet about them failing mid dyno mapping session on some big power cars. FSE apparently werent interested in solving the problem until some people sent a faulty unit directly to the MD of the company along with a snotty letter
I've had mine on a year and a half with no probs (i'm not saying that none of them break though! lol). Is £100 really worth missing to save your engine running lean? With the kind of induction system were looking at and the massive increase in air induction at V-TEC i'd say a few psi of extra fuel pressure will definately be needed.
Just because the ECU wants to deliver the extra fuel it might not be able to if it's not getting enough pressure or is restricted. Personally i've run an adjustable FPR sinse i started my project. From N/A all the way up to the higher boosted turbo.
And i'd stay well clear of a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. These are just a cheap cop out of a standalone ecu. Just get a decent sized set of injectors and a FPR. A well tuned ECU will sort the increased fuelling for boost.
Just because the ECU wants to deliver the extra fuel it might not be able to if it's not getting enough pressure or is restricted. Personally i've run an adjustable FPR sinse i started my project. From N/A all the way up to the higher boosted turbo.
And i'd stay well clear of a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. These are just a cheap cop out of a standalone ecu. Just get a decent sized set of injectors and a FPR. A well tuned ECU will sort the increased fuelling for boost.
Edited by Jonesy CRX_Turbo on Tuesday 17th July 20:20
So are we saying that if I don't increase the pressure then I am risking my engine with the addition of the induction kit and the exhaust? I was under the impression that the new bits and bobs will do very little to improve the cars performance unless I make other upgrades, but I am more than happy to part with a £100 if it means I will be avoiding problems I have created due to the chaviness in me? I would add I do not where Burbury (can't even spell it) and I have only been out with one girl who called herself 'Shaz' (I was 13 at the time).
Changing the air intake and exhaust, including the CAT to a more freer flowing one and manifold is good for 18-20 bhp.
I don't believe there is a need for the fuel pressure regulator, but given the small extra compared with the £2000+ you'll spend on brand name bits, then it's not worth obsessing over whether it's needed or not - £100 for peace of mind is the best way to look at it.
If you spend quite a bit of time in VTEC, then you would be better off with it than not, but if you tootle most of the time with only the odd excursion into VTEC, then there's less need for it.
I don't believe there is a need for the fuel pressure regulator, but given the small extra compared with the £2000+ you'll spend on brand name bits, then it's not worth obsessing over whether it's needed or not - £100 for peace of mind is the best way to look at it.
If you spend quite a bit of time in VTEC, then you would be better off with it than not, but if you tootle most of the time with only the odd excursion into VTEC, then there's less need for it.
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