RE: New NSX Delayed
Discussion
Panayiotis said:
I drove a NSX the other day and have to say that it is a brilliant drive. They shouldn't of stopped making them, only lowered the price. Bet they wish they hadn't now with all these delays!
They made a loss on every car made even at the price it was at.I'm an owner, and yes they certainly are a brilliant drive.
It all fits beased on previous news.
When the new Honda CEO came in 2 years ago he announced he was killing the sports car and type-R programs. Net result there has been no S2000 replacement (long over due) no new NSX when the old one was dropped (I'm sorry but motorshow mock ups and photo shop pictures do not count) and the only type-Rs in recent years ahve been made in the UK (with the last Civic Type-R being shipped back to Japan) (oh the last Teg Type-R came out just as the new CEO came in in case you were wondering).
The only way a new NSX will be made is if there is a change at the very top.
Oh and as to the Nurburgring shots - those could be anything (including photoshop - remember the fake 'new supra' photos from a few years back).
When the new Honda CEO came in 2 years ago he announced he was killing the sports car and type-R programs. Net result there has been no S2000 replacement (long over due) no new NSX when the old one was dropped (I'm sorry but motorshow mock ups and photo shop pictures do not count) and the only type-Rs in recent years ahve been made in the UK (with the last Civic Type-R being shipped back to Japan) (oh the last Teg Type-R came out just as the new CEO came in in case you were wondering).
The only way a new NSX will be made is if there is a change at the very top.
Oh and as to the Nurburgring shots - those could be anything (including photoshop - remember the fake 'new supra' photos from a few years back).
sidesauce said:
Does anyone say that about Lexus being a Toyota???
No, because Lexus launched their own cars from the start. Honda badged certain of their own cars 'Acura' in the US market (e.g. the DC5 Integra was the RSX, the NSX was the Acura NSX, and IIRC the Legend became the RL).SkinnyBoy said:
thank god they delayed it, the last two attempts were crap, and everyone knows the yanks couldn't design a decent car even if it drew itself! They shouldn't even be letting these fools near a car so important to the brands image. Who cares about some Acura badge anyway, Its just a Honda after all, i hate this faux wannabe prestige, but i guess the sales figures tell it all. Given the option I'd rather buy a Honda Legend rather than an Acura RL, merely for the fact people will go:
"whats that? an Acura? whats that then?"
"Its a Honda"
"Why didn't they just call it a Honda then?"
"because some spawn of satan marketing "guru" decreed it so, as Americans have no culture of their own, yet embarrassingly rebadge everything in a desperate attempt to get some"
"So you have been to Vegas then?"
"Enough said.."
Great alliteration!"whats that? an Acura? whats that then?"
"Its a Honda"
"Why didn't they just call it a Honda then?"
"because some spawn of satan marketing "guru" decreed it so, as Americans have no culture of their own, yet embarrassingly rebadge everything in a desperate attempt to get some"
"So you have been to Vegas then?"
"Enough said.."
Thing is, in Europe, Honda could almost be a 'premium' brand in cars, as it is in machinery & outboards.
The US thinks of Honda as cheap cars, and they are the most brand-obsessed nation, as you suggest.
Trouble is, Acura is a meaningless noise and it reminds me of a cheap, nasty watch.
Funnily enough, only the Germans ain't fooled by Lexus.
I tend to prefer the integrity of certain companies with the maker's name on the front and their (usually autocratic!) stamp all over the company; Borgward, Bugatti, Ferrari, Honda being prime examples.
Unfortunately, most once-great marques are little more than a branding exercise and their products have all the engineering integrity of a Guess watch or some idiotically overpriced jeans.
I'd be happy for my NSX to have Honda badges; Put Acura on the same car & I'd be instantly more uncomfortable.
In the same way, If I bought one car as a Skoda, I'd be a miserly skinflint and if I bought it as an Audi, I'd be a vacuous brand-junkie; there's no winning. Yet somehow a Golf is just a Volkswagen, without all that crap piled on top of it.
havoc said:
sidesauce said:
Does anyone say that about Lexus being a Toyota???
No, because Lexus launched their own cars from the start. Honda badged certain of their own cars 'Acura' in the US market (e.g. the DC5 Integra was the RSX, the NSX was the Acura NSX, and IIRC the Legend became the RL).As someone else said above or the previous page - Honda have lost (not are losing - it's already happened) the plot.
Such a shame really.
Actually, what's set the cat amongst the pigeons is Infiniti:
They started off with thinly disguised Nissans, & were a flop compared to Lexus.
Recenly they established their own corporate identity and a successful ranged based upon the new front-mid engine platform the underpins the 350GT/Skyline/450GT family.
Acura are still trying to build a mish-mash of FWD-based cars with no clear identity.
The TL is a posh Accord and is quite successful; the Legend is an utter flop everywhere. So is their X3 version of the CR-V.
The TSX and a huge XC90-style MDX are sort of saving the brand from disaster.
BTW, Honda talk of the 'successor to' the NSX. The 'NSX replacement' was the HSC, which was canned because it was too expensive for a Boxster rival and not 'impressive' enough in the BHP wars that have broken out.
Even the S2000 replacement is rumoured to be moved downwards towards the MX-5.
The success of the MPV/SAVs seems to have led Honda to lose the plot, I'm afraid.
They started off with thinly disguised Nissans, & were a flop compared to Lexus.
Recenly they established their own corporate identity and a successful ranged based upon the new front-mid engine platform the underpins the 350GT/Skyline/450GT family.
Acura are still trying to build a mish-mash of FWD-based cars with no clear identity.
The TL is a posh Accord and is quite successful; the Legend is an utter flop everywhere. So is their X3 version of the CR-V.
The TSX and a huge XC90-style MDX are sort of saving the brand from disaster.
BTW, Honda talk of the 'successor to' the NSX. The 'NSX replacement' was the HSC, which was canned because it was too expensive for a Boxster rival and not 'impressive' enough in the BHP wars that have broken out.
Even the S2000 replacement is rumoured to be moved downwards towards the MX-5.
The success of the MPV/SAVs seems to have led Honda to lose the plot, I'm afraid.
Black S2K said:
The success of the MPV/SAVs seems to have led Honda to lose the plot, I'm afraid.
In all honesty I think it was the rise of the 'marketing/"brand"' men and the accountants at the expense of the engineers. (And I'm an accountant saying that)Honda is arguably now a more successful and profitable company than it was back in the 90's. Sadly they no longer make such superlative products (from an engineering or dynamic perspective...IMHO the S2000 was their engineering swansong!). And I fear that while these changes have brought current success, half of the foundation for that success (in Europe and Japan, anyroad) was the engineering integrity...so they could find themselves with a waning star, brand-wise, in the future.
Performance-wise, yes they've dropped the ball...as that sector has been deemed not important enough...the NSX was a commercial flop, the S2000 has been moderately successful but no longer has the ponies and never had the badge-image to compete toe-to-toe with the Germans, so the Type-R brand is all that's left...
I never knew you were a beancounter too!
Funny thing is, you're right; Honda looks incredibly successful at the moment, in terms of unit sales. But its future looks terribly shaky.
But their (non-kei sector) car market in Japan is floundering, Acura's newer models are a generally disaster and they appear to be pushing the core brand downmarket in Europe. Look how Audi plagiarised the EG & EK Civics to make the previous & current A3s. The current FK and previous EU Civic seem to be aimed more at the Astra than the A3!
My S2000 as Honda's swansong? A sad, but rather poignant thought!
Funny thing is, you're right; Honda looks incredibly successful at the moment, in terms of unit sales. But its future looks terribly shaky.
But their (non-kei sector) car market in Japan is floundering, Acura's newer models are a generally disaster and they appear to be pushing the core brand downmarket in Europe. Look how Audi plagiarised the EG & EK Civics to make the previous & current A3s. The current FK and previous EU Civic seem to be aimed more at the Astra than the A3!
My S2000 as Honda's swansong? A sad, but rather poignant thought!
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