Top Gear - This Sunday - Old vs New Type-R
Discussion
julians said:
How come they classed the new one as slower than the old one when the old one did a laptime of 1:36.5, see http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/t...
and the new one did 1:33.something last night?
Wet lap in the old one?? if that was the case theres not that much in it.
Not sure.and the new one did 1:33.something last night?
Wet lap in the old one?? if that was the case theres not that much in it.
Newer one has wider tyres AND wider track (and probably better rubber)...all of which will give higher cornering speeds, despite higher weight and lower bhp/tonne (and less 'fun'/adjustable suspension).
havoc said:
julians said:
How come they classed the new one as slower than the old one when the old one did a laptime of 1:36.5, see http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/t...
and the new one did 1:33.something last night?
Wet lap in the old one?? if that was the case theres not that much in it.
Not sure.and the new one did 1:33.something last night?
Wet lap in the old one?? if that was the case theres not that much in it.
Newer one has wider tyres AND wider track (and probably better rubber)...all of which will give higher cornering speeds, despite higher weight and lower bhp/tonne (and less 'fun'/adjustable suspension).
The 1:36.5 was the EP3 pre-facelift time in the wet.
Edited by purdy84 on Monday 19th November 16:48
rickyhad said:
What i don't get is, if they dislike the new Civic Type R so much how come, in the Top Gear Magazine, they placed it top in a Hot Hatch Shoot Out thing they did a few months ago?
Magazine and TV programme have very little in common. Only one has JC, for example. While the other has a reputation for kissing manufacturer arse...havoc said:
rickyhad said:
What i don't get is, if they dislike the new Civic Type R so much how come, in the Top Gear Magazine, they placed it top in a Hot Hatch Shoot Out thing they did a few months ago?
Magazine and TV programme have very little in common. Only one has JC, for example. While the other has a reputation for kissing manufacturer arse...
JC writes in the Mag every monthmaximm said:
JC is a rubbish driver lets not forget. He cant get the best out of any car.
He may not have raw talent but you don't drive all those cars on and off track without getting quite good. He puts himself down for comedy value but is better than most on here.Nice slide in the rover
stephen300o said:
maximm said:
JC is a rubbish driver lets not forget. He cant get the best out of any car.
He may not have raw talent but you don't drive all those cars on and off track without getting quite good. He puts himself down for comedy value but is better than most on here.Nice slide in the rover
My cousin is a racing driver and says that JC is pants compared to Tiff Needell..just thought I would put that comment in for effect...
maximm said:
My cousin is a racing driver and says that JC is pants compared to Tiff Needell..just thought I would put that comment in for effect...
Put this in the context of the real-world for a minute:-The PH collective care about driving (as a rule), so are likely to be in the top 20% of drivers, probably the top 10%. We've already established that JC is better than probably 70-80% (conservative estimate) of PH members.
So by that yardstick JC is in the top 2-5% of drivers in the country. If he can't get the best out of a car, how many punters are going to be able to?!?!?
I'd suggest JC's reviews are potentially more relevant than TN's or Dicky Meaden's, as he's closer to our level of ability than those guys...a car that TN or RM finds 'involving' and 'challenging' would probably kill most people on this thread. Whereas if JC said it you'd think 'OK, that might be fun'...
havoc said:
maximm said:
My cousin is a racing driver and says that JC is pants compared to Tiff Needell..just thought I would put that comment in for effect...
Put this in the context of the real-world for a minute:-The PH collective care about driving (as a rule), so are likely to be in the top 20% of drivers, probably the top 10%. We've already established that JC is better than probably 70-80% (conservative estimate) of PH members.
So by that yardstick JC is in the top 2-5% of drivers in the country. If he can't get the best out of a car, how many punters are going to be able to?!?!?
I'd suggest JC's reviews are potentially more relevant than TN's or Dicky Meaden's, as he's closer to our level of ability than those guys...a car that TN or RM finds 'involving' and 'challenging' would probably kill most people on this thread. Whereas if JC said it you'd think 'OK, that might be fun'...
I was only mentioning it as if we want to really compare the 2 cars then JC is prb not the best person. We all know he prefers cars that are a bit more hardocre and thats why he loved the old type-r. Having said that in Top Gear mag a while back when they did a hot hatch comparison the Stig said he loved the new type-r. Which is odd as you would think he would be even more of a "hardcore" advocator than JC. Suppose it jusst boils down to personal preference....
i've driven both cars back to back, and agree with TG's summary .. the new car isn't better than the old car, and that was JC's main gripe. the new one feels more planted than the old which was always a bit jittery (especially coming from an integra), but it lacks that oversteer-on-demand, power-to-weight has been sapped slightly throughout the rev range, etc. i walked into the showroom with an intention to spend 18k on a newbie, and decided it just wan't worth the extra 12k over my (old) CTR, and i'm guessing many others will feel the same. if it had 20PS more and an LSD, then maybe?
Lets face it who actually wants 'oversteer on demand' in a front wheel drive road car!?
The old car may have been a bit more 'lively' in the handling department but not always in a good way. I reckon I saw at least 4 CTR's heavily shunted at Oulton over the last 18 months, most at the same corner (the exit of lodge)all resulting fom 'oversteer' - demanded or not!
The new car looks a million times better externally and internally IMO. Shame it hasn't got another 30HP though. The handlings probably a little more conservative but its still a smart little hot hatch.
The old car may have been a bit more 'lively' in the handling department but not always in a good way. I reckon I saw at least 4 CTR's heavily shunted at Oulton over the last 18 months, most at the same corner (the exit of lodge)all resulting fom 'oversteer' - demanded or not!
The new car looks a million times better externally and internally IMO. Shame it hasn't got another 30HP though. The handlings probably a little more conservative but its still a smart little hot hatch.
kinetic said:
Lets face it who actually wants 'oversteer on demand' in a front wheel drive road car!?
:cough: 
I think you'll find most people who've bought a 205 or 306Gti do...and most who bought the DC2 ITR...and a few others less-renowned but still capable.
Lift-off-oversteer is one of the most fun ways of trimming the attitude of your car. Not the quickest, necessarily, but when you've got a third of a turn of opp-lock dialled in and are grinning like a loon, WGAF about speed...
Personally I wouldn't want a fwd car without it...makes for a very one-dimensional driving experience...
havoc said:
kinetic said:
Lets face it who actually wants 'oversteer on demand' in a front wheel drive road car!?
:cough: I think you'll find most people who've bought a 205 or 306Gti do...and most who bought the DC2 ITR...and a few others less-renowned but still capable.
Lift-off-oversteer is one of the most fun ways of trimming the attitude of your car. Not the quickest, necessarily, but when you've got a third of a turn of opp-lock dialled in and are grinning like a loon, WGAF about speed...
Personally I wouldn't want a fwd car without it...makes for a very one-dimensional driving experience...
havoc said:
Tinohead said:
Which is the old Type-R?
Well, if you're a purist that'll be the original NSX Type R. But realistically it's the DC2 Integra Type R, quickly followed by the EK9 Civic Type R. After that came the Accord and then the breadvan Civic, then the DC5 Integra of BTCC fame and the AP2 NSX-R...and after that it was all downhill until the JDM-model FD...[/pedant mode]
Note to OP - just because Honda UK are crap, no excuse for forgetting that there are a fair-few Honda Type R's around...try using the car name, eh? Especially as the Civics (post-EK9) have typically been the 'worst' Type R's...
Oh, and although the NSX Type-R's offical name was NSX-R, it is still the first "red H'd", official Type-R Honda produced.
I'm glad to see there are still some people who remember there are some amazing cars with the Type-R badge, and that the marque shouldn't be judged on the 2 latest arrivals.
Edited by Tinohead on Thursday 29th November 13:38
havoc said:
I'd suggest JC's reviews are potentially more relevant than TN's or Dicky Meaden's, as he's closer to our level of ability than those guys...
The reality is that 95% of the footage of JC going round corners on the airfield is junk because he always over-drives whatever he has under his right foot and believes that loads of tyre smoke before he pirouettes across the nice, comfortably wide tarmac strip shows that he's a real "driver". So the highly edited clip is totally irrrelevant to how the car/RV/motorhome drives on a road under normal driving conditions. I think the new CTR is an absolutely ideal car for thrashing around A and B roads in and amongst the traffic, weather and piss-poor road surfaces we all live with. On a track it may be a few smidgeons slower than last generation CTR but who the hell cares unless you buy it to thrash at track days (but why buy an old CTR to thrash at track days when you can buy a rear wheel drive car that is way more satisfying to lap quickly?)Gassing Station | Honda | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff