Your Type R Frustrations
Discussion
I know this will be highly biased since you're all members of the Honda forum, but I was wondering what frustrates you about the car.
I own a Golf and was thinking about getting a Mk 4 1.8T, I know its slower on paper with 150bhp etc but the hub of the question is really Turbo vs. V Tec? Two different designs for the same use, some would say the Turbo is better since you need to load your car up to 6k rpm with more available boost, but is that high end boost what makes you love the Type R as much as you do?
Thanks
Luke
I own a Golf and was thinking about getting a Mk 4 1.8T, I know its slower on paper with 150bhp etc but the hub of the question is really Turbo vs. V Tec? Two different designs for the same use, some would say the Turbo is better since you need to load your car up to 6k rpm with more available boost, but is that high end boost what makes you love the Type R as much as you do?
Thanks
Luke
Surely most people know what they are getting when they buy a VTEC engined car.
I have to say though, as a FWD car, I much prefer a high revving, small, naturally aspirated engine over the lard-arse dull turbocharged engines you seem to find in most cars these days, with the poor throttle response and engine note that goes with them, not to mention all that low down torque to encourage understeer and torquesteer.
I think the lack of low down torque on these Hondas is totally over exagerrated though. Sure enough they arent as fast at low revs as some of these new turbo charged cars, but in normal driving they are quick enough and responsive enough at low revs to never need frequent gear changes, and if you want to go fast, I cant really see the problem with dropping a gear - even in a turbocharged car you would still need to select the appropriate gear to get maximum acceleration anyway...
I have to say though, as a FWD car, I much prefer a high revving, small, naturally aspirated engine over the lard-arse dull turbocharged engines you seem to find in most cars these days, with the poor throttle response and engine note that goes with them, not to mention all that low down torque to encourage understeer and torquesteer.
I think the lack of low down torque on these Hondas is totally over exagerrated though. Sure enough they arent as fast at low revs as some of these new turbo charged cars, but in normal driving they are quick enough and responsive enough at low revs to never need frequent gear changes, and if you want to go fast, I cant really see the problem with dropping a gear - even in a turbocharged car you would still need to select the appropriate gear to get maximum acceleration anyway...
No car is perfect, there's always compromises.
With the DC2 it's the lack of mid-range, which is most noticeable on the short journey to work when I can't VTEC as she's still cold.
With the S2000 it's insufficient feedback to make it really a 10/10ths car (the chassis is, without doubt...just doesn't give you enough confidence).
With the Golf I think it'd be the dull engine note and lack of involvement in the drive that'd bore me senseless...
With the DC2 it's the lack of mid-range, which is most noticeable on the short journey to work when I can't VTEC as she's still cold.
With the S2000 it's insufficient feedback to make it really a 10/10ths car (the chassis is, without doubt...just doesn't give you enough confidence).
With the Golf I think it'd be the dull engine note and lack of involvement in the drive that'd bore me senseless...
LukeSpyder said:
On my brothers civic, which is the 3rd newest shape and has been altered to a rally car he baught a chip to give him variable V-tec boost is that possible on the newer v-tec as well?
I guess you must be referring to a vtec controller. This allows you to change when the car switches to the "power cam". These can be fitted to any VTEC engined car if you so wish.I have a 1.8T gof GTI previously had a ep3 type-r. The ride and power delivery is totally different. If you want a car that can cruise around nice and quiet then tear up a country lane when you need it to then get a golf.
If you want to drive around everywhere like your hair is on fire with that vtec roaring away then civic is the way to go.
Having had both the type r is without doubt a much quicker and quicker feeling car and much more exciting to drive hard but everyday lacks a little low range and has a bone shaking ride and not many luxuries inside. Golf is a better all rounder thast can deliver thrills when you get the revs up high.
Al in all if you have to drive far to work and want to get there in a bit of comfort by a golf. If you want a car to play with then get a type r.
If you want to drive around everywhere like your hair is on fire with that vtec roaring away then civic is the way to go.
Having had both the type r is without doubt a much quicker and quicker feeling car and much more exciting to drive hard but everyday lacks a little low range and has a bone shaking ride and not many luxuries inside. Golf is a better all rounder thast can deliver thrills when you get the revs up high.
Al in all if you have to drive far to work and want to get there in a bit of comfort by a golf. If you want a car to play with then get a type r.
IMO the CTR is a drivers car. More feedback throught the steering and pedals. Honda focused on the drivetrain more than the creature comforts and it shows. This is what I want from my car at this point in time.
I would also go as far as to say that the ep3 has what the original mk1 golf gti delivered. 'It's fun to drive'. In my experience the CTR commands the respect of other hot hatch users and seems to be bench mark for handling in the group.
Correct me if I'm wrong was into the VAG scene before... was the last incarnation of the mk4 1.8t 180bhp? The anniversary was...
On a side note have you considered a Seat Leon Cupra R. Got the KK04 turbos on them and can be remapped to around 275bhp. Or even the little brother Leon Cupra with its 180bhp. Obviously all the power is useless if you don't know how to drive ;-)
I would also go as far as to say that the ep3 has what the original mk1 golf gti delivered. 'It's fun to drive'. In my experience the CTR commands the respect of other hot hatch users and seems to be bench mark for handling in the group.
Correct me if I'm wrong was into the VAG scene before... was the last incarnation of the mk4 1.8t 180bhp? The anniversary was...
On a side note have you considered a Seat Leon Cupra R. Got the KK04 turbos on them and can be remapped to around 275bhp. Or even the little brother Leon Cupra with its 180bhp. Obviously all the power is useless if you don't know how to drive ;-)
Edited by Manners on Wednesday 4th June 12:54
LukeSpyder said:
I know this will be highly biased since you're all members of the Honda forum, but I was wondering what frustrates you about the car.
I own a Golf and was thinking about getting a Mk 4 1.8T, I know its slower on paper with 150bhp etc but the hub of the question is really Turbo vs. V Tec? Two different designs for the same use, some would say the Turbo is better since you need to load your car up to 6k rpm with more available boost, but is that high end boost what makes you love the Type R as much as you do?
Thanks
Luke
The 1.8t is a boring engine if standard. My mum has the golf with the 1.8t, it's fast but has no soul, probably after a remap exhaust and drop in filter it might be better, where as my Integra sounds fantastic straight out of the box. I own a Golf and was thinking about getting a Mk 4 1.8T, I know its slower on paper with 150bhp etc but the hub of the question is really Turbo vs. V Tec? Two different designs for the same use, some would say the Turbo is better since you need to load your car up to 6k rpm with more available boost, but is that high end boost what makes you love the Type R as much as you do?
Thanks
Luke
The golf is better day to day driving and would be better if that’s your only car, as it has the best of both worlds.
The Integra you feel with every bone in your body when its screaming.
Both good engines though. Depends what you want loads of torque or none
jatinder said:
The golf is better day to day driving and would be better if that’s your only car, as it has the best of both worlds.
I respectfully disagree, my only car is my Integra Type-R. I'd hate to think someone would subject me to that wheezy, bland, wallowy tank as a Mk4 Golf on my day to day runs. I'll put up with the lack of torque and hard ride to not have to drive one of the worst driving cars in a class of distinctively unexciting small family cars, thank you very much 
Its all about personal choice.
The new Fiat 500 Abarth has a perky little 1.4 puts out 148bhp and 138ft/lb torque. This little chap will make the Golf seem stupidly slow, and the civic tame......
I have had a go in both cars, the Golf is all about gliding down the road.... hustle it and you realise its a heavyweight, its agile but its weight makes it 'soft' in the corners, The civic feels more 'plugged in', it does not whoosh like the golf but feels like its grabbing at the road as you go along, a sense of urgency... hustle it and rather then glide through a turn, it makes the road crease.. the grip feels right at the tyre, not in the suspension. Everyone seems to forget the EP3 CTR has lousy steering lock, definatly a three point turn everytime......
The golf is softer with a feeble engine i mean 1.8Turbo????
The civic is harder with poor steering lock but a proper engine
The new Fiat 500 Abarth has a perky little 1.4 puts out 148bhp and 138ft/lb torque. This little chap will make the Golf seem stupidly slow, and the civic tame......
I have had a go in both cars, the Golf is all about gliding down the road.... hustle it and you realise its a heavyweight, its agile but its weight makes it 'soft' in the corners, The civic feels more 'plugged in', it does not whoosh like the golf but feels like its grabbing at the road as you go along, a sense of urgency... hustle it and rather then glide through a turn, it makes the road crease.. the grip feels right at the tyre, not in the suspension. Everyone seems to forget the EP3 CTR has lousy steering lock, definatly a three point turn everytime......
The golf is softer with a feeble engine i mean 1.8Turbo????
The civic is harder with poor steering lock but a proper engine
LukeSpyder said:
Apparently the VTec controller shortens engine life ALOT since Honda set all the conditions of the engine to be perfect to allow the VTEC to kick in without stressing the rest of the engine.
Any performance modification that increases power/ torque will do the same though (increase engine wear/ reduce life). Personally, I fail to see the point of setting the vtec to kick in earlier as at low engine speeds there won't be enough intake to make the higer cam profiles worth while. Furthermore, when you are driving in a spirited manner, when you do change gear it drops you straight back in the vtec zone, so in reality a vtec controller would only be useful in first gear when pulling away or if you are feeling lazy with the gears when driving, in which case I recommend an automatic.
Baffled Spoon said:
LukeSpyder said:
Apparently the VTec controller shortens engine life ALOT since Honda set all the conditions of the engine to be perfect to allow the VTEC to kick in without stressing the rest of the engine.
Any performance modification that increases power/ torque will do the same though (increase engine wear/ reduce life). Personally, I fail to see the point of setting the vtec to kick in earlier as at low engine speeds there won't be enough intake to make the higer cam profiles worth while. Furthermore, when you are driving in a spirited manner, when you do change gear it drops you straight back in the vtec zone, so in reality a vtec controller would only be useful in first gear when pulling away or if you are feeling lazy with the gears when driving, in which case I recommend an automatic.
- The CTR (with the UK rev-limit) has to be thrashed to the redline in order not to drop out of VTEC. There are times when short-shifting is useful on the road. The DC2, despite being a gear down, has a broader VTEC band so it's a bit less of an issue. You just don't care in the S2000!
)- The VTEC cut-over point on all the performance Hondas (certainly pre-K-series) has been set artificially high to give a noticeable "kick" when VTEC cuts in. For optimal performance the DC2 cut-over should be around 5,200 (from memory - someone on Honda Revs worked it out years back)! So there are performance advantages to lowering the cut-over a little.
havoc said:
Baffled Spoon said:
LukeSpyder said:
Apparently the VTec controller shortens engine life ALOT since Honda set all the conditions of the engine to be perfect to allow the VTEC to kick in without stressing the rest of the engine.
Any performance modification that increases power/ torque will do the same though (increase engine wear/ reduce life). Personally, I fail to see the point of setting the vtec to kick in earlier as at low engine speeds there won't be enough intake to make the higer cam profiles worth while. Furthermore, when you are driving in a spirited manner, when you do change gear it drops you straight back in the vtec zone, so in reality a vtec controller would only be useful in first gear when pulling away or if you are feeling lazy with the gears when driving, in which case I recommend an automatic.
- The CTR (with the UK rev-limit) has to be thrashed to the redline in order not to drop out of VTEC. There are times when short-shifting is useful on the road. The DC2, despite being a gear down, has a broader VTEC band so it's a bit less of an issue. You just don't care in the S2000!
)- The VTEC cut-over point on all the performance Hondas (certainly pre-K-series) has been set artificially high to give a noticeable "kick" when VTEC cuts in. For optimal performance the DC2 cut-over should be around 5,200 (from memory - someone on Honda Revs worked it out years back)! So there are performance advantages to lowering the cut-over a little.
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