Your Type R Frustrations
Discussion
Carfiend said:
DC5 will VTEC at 6100, when you hit the redline at about 8600 and shift up you go down to about 6200 so you stay in vtec all the time and burn more fuel and get a bigger grin.
All VTEC engines stay in VTEC if you redline them!However the K20A is known to be less-tolerant (in terms of staying in VTEC) of short-shifting than all of the others...which makes it harder to drive, as there are times when you WANT to short-shift.
You mean the UKDM K20A. The DC5 and FD2 have a broader power band and is very easy to slot in to VTEC through the gears. I know the majority of ppl here will have UKDM models but there is no point generalising.
The H22A7 lump in the ATR required precise shifts to keep in VTEC, just before the limiter else you'd be out of the power band.
Also worth noting that the power dips before the VTEC changover point to make the cam change more pronounced.
The H22A7 lump in the ATR required precise shifts to keep in VTEC, just before the limiter else you'd be out of the power band.
Also worth noting that the power dips before the VTEC changover point to make the cam change more pronounced.
giger said:
You mean the UKDM K20A. The DC5 and FD2 have a broader power band and is very easy to slot in to VTEC through the gears. I know the majority of ppl here will have UKDM models but there is no point generalising.
The H22A7 lump in the ATR required precise shifts to keep in VTEC, just before the limiter else you'd be out of the power band.
Also worth noting that the power dips before the VTEC changover point to make the cam change more pronounced.
The reason its harder to keep the UK CTR and some accords in VTEC is that they have put gearboxes with odd ratios on these cars. The H22A7 lump in the ATR required precise shifts to keep in VTEC, just before the limiter else you'd be out of the power band.
Also worth noting that the power dips before the VTEC changover point to make the cam change more pronounced.
The prelude with the same H22A7 engine is pretty easy to keep in VTEC as the gearbox has more evenly spaced ratios. Its not that the engine has VTEC set too late, its that the gearbox is too long (in some gears)
It is a slightly different engine, but Holst and Dan are both partially right:-
- Honda HAVE used some odd ratios, presumably to increase on-paper performance.
- The UKDM CTR does stay in VTEC if you redline it before changing. My point was that the 'tolerance' before it drops out of VTEC when you shift up is lower than in the ITR and S2000. I wasn't aware the ATR was just as bad.
- Honda HAVE used some odd ratios, presumably to increase on-paper performance.
- The UKDM CTR does stay in VTEC if you redline it before changing. My point was that the 'tolerance' before it drops out of VTEC when you shift up is lower than in the ITR and S2000. I wasn't aware the ATR was just as bad.
LukeSpyder said:
Apparently the VTec controller shortens engine life ALOT since Honda set all the conditions of the engine to be perfect to allow the VTEC to kick in without stressing the rest of the engine.
the problem with vtec controllers is that they change the point at where the cam lobe changes but thats all. they do not change the map to suit so fuelling and ignition is still the same as before on the less aggressive cam lobe. hence waste of time and will cause engine to run slightly lean.havoc said:
It is a slightly different engine, but Holst and Dan are both partially right:-
- Honda HAVE used some odd ratios, presumably to increase on-paper performance.
- The UKDM CTR does stay in VTEC if you redline it before changing. My point was that the 'tolerance' before it drops out of VTEC when you shift up is lower than in the ITR and S2000. I wasn't aware the ATR was just as bad.
There are no odd ratios on the UK EP3 CTR. If the rest of the car matched the gearbox, it might have been a decent stab at a Type-R!- Honda HAVE used some odd ratios, presumably to increase on-paper performance.
- The UKDM CTR does stay in VTEC if you redline it before changing. My point was that the 'tolerance' before it drops out of VTEC when you shift up is lower than in the ITR and S2000. I wasn't aware the ATR was just as bad.
pbirkett said:
Surely most people know what they are getting when they buy a VTEC engined car.
I have to say though, as a FWD car, I much prefer a high revving, small, naturally aspirated engine over the lard-arse dull turbocharged engines you seem to find in most cars these days, with the poor throttle response and engine note that goes with them, not to mention all that low down torque to encourage understeer and torquesteer.
I think the lack of low down torque on these Hondas is totally over exagerrated though. Sure enough they arent as fast at low revs as some of these new turbo charged cars, but in normal driving they are quick enough and responsive enough at low revs to never need frequent gear changes, and if you want to go fast, I cant really see the problem with dropping a gear - even in a turbocharged car you would still need to select the appropriate gear to get maximum acceleration anyway...
+1I have to say though, as a FWD car, I much prefer a high revving, small, naturally aspirated engine over the lard-arse dull turbocharged engines you seem to find in most cars these days, with the poor throttle response and engine note that goes with them, not to mention all that low down torque to encourage understeer and torquesteer.
I think the lack of low down torque on these Hondas is totally over exagerrated though. Sure enough they arent as fast at low revs as some of these new turbo charged cars, but in normal driving they are quick enough and responsive enough at low revs to never need frequent gear changes, and if you want to go fast, I cant really see the problem with dropping a gear - even in a turbocharged car you would still need to select the appropriate gear to get maximum acceleration anyway...
Gassing Station | Honda | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff