Oulton Park First Timer

[instructor]

MrOnTheRopes said:

Haha, right! Yeah, that was me on Tuesday although I ran out of tyres and had to abort at lunchtime :-( 1m57s is pretty blummin quick! I don't do live timing (obviously naughty naughty) but I do full GPS based data logging (Race Tech DL-1) which I can analyse when I get home. 1m59s is the best I've seen for myself. I'll catch up with you at the next meet!

That's pretty good for a road car! You can't be doing too badly! We reckon the M3 race car should be good for 1:53 / 1:54 on a clear lap with new tyres (and brakes!) LOL

See you there next time!



>> Edited by instructor on Thursday 15th July 13:40

[K4TRV]

instructor said:

VINTY said: Tim yes Iam on broadband and would find the video more than helpful (better than my son's Playstation TOCA 2)LOL >> Edited by VINTY on Wednesday 14th July 22:52 Ok it's here: <a href="http://www.timarnold.com/oultonlap.mpeg">www.timarnold.com/oultonlap.mpeg</a> (right click and 'save target as') Enjoy! Tim >> Edited by instructor on Wednesday 14th July 23:37

Tim,

Excellent, thank you. That's going to be a great help, worth at least 5/7 laps !!

Trev McM

[instructor]

jeremyc said:

Fantastic write-up Tim - thanks! As you say, Oulton is a demanding but very rewarding circuit: I've yet to find a more challenging corner in the UK than Druids - it's relatively easy to get round it (sometimes cautiously ), but to get it right and carry speed down to Lodge takes a fair bit of practice. Which corner would you say contributes the most to a fast lap at Oulton?

I don't think you could say there's a single corner that contributes MOSTLY to a fast lap at Oulton, there are to many that are critical.

Let's not forget that track days are about fun and not record laps (ARDS Instructor hat on! LOL)

But that said... I would say that ALL the corners at Oulton are important to a fast lap. They all have a reasonable straight or quick section after them. Old Hall, Cascades, Knickerbrook, Druids and Lodge being particulary important.

At any circuit, it's speed along the straights that saves you the most time. Demon late braking can save you hundreths or at best a tenth or so of a second. Braking mega late means a car length or so, absolute maximum... but it gives you less time to do everything else and can get messy and rushed... cornering speed itself is important but again pushing the limits can get hectic and slow you down... by far the most important factor is speed along the straights, where you are travelling much faster for much longer, so, getting out of the preceding corner cleaner with the minimum drag (no understeer or oversteer... well perhaps a tiny bit of oversteer) and the maximum possible acceleration, getting on the power in the corner as soon as possible without unsettling the car, is where the quick lap times come from. Try adding up the total length of the straights of a circuit and calulate how much time an extra 5 MPH is worth along that distance... do the same for the braking and cornering distances and compare them all!

You'll find it's worth sacrificing time (not too much though) in the braking zone and the first part of a corner, to gain in the second part of the corner and all the way down the straight.

I think perhaps, IMHO, the most difficult part of Oulton to get right, crucial to a good lap, is the whole section from Knickerbrook, over Hill Top, through Druids, down to Lodge and through Deer Leap onto the pit straight. I think Druids is by far the most daunting corner on the circuit, particularly the approach to it where you can be carrying some awsome speed in confined space in some cars.

[MrOnTheRopes]

I'd put Cascades and Island as the most daunting - Cascades because the entry is pretty much as fast as Druids (~120mph in mine after a blind summit at Dentons), plus it's off-camber and left-handed (lefties never feel natural to me).

Island because it is the highest speed corner at the apex - over 100mph in most semi-serious stuff.

Druids (to me at least) is a little slower although I'm probably being a little cautious still. I'm entering the corner at around 80mph, coming down from about 120mph in the braking zone. The approach to Druids is fabulous - I take it flat thru 3rd and 4th all the way from Knickerbrook, only backing off when it's time to slow for Druids.

[instructor]

MrOnTheRopes said:

I'd put Cascades and Island as the most daunting - Cascades because the entry is pretty much as fast as Druids (~120mph in mine after a blind summit at Dentons), plus it's off-camber and left-handed (lefties never feel natural to me). Island because it is the highest speed corner at the apex - over 100mph in most semi-serious stuff. Druids (to me at least) is a little slower although I'm probably being a little cautious still. I'm entering the corner at around 80mph, coming down from about 120mph in the braking zone. The approach to Druids is fabulous - I take it flat thru 3rd and 4th all the way from Knickerbrook, only backing off when it's time to slow for Druids.

I think it's a matter of personal opinion Elliot. I find Cascades and Island fairly easy, perhaps that's familiarity with the whole circuit; I don't find any of it particularly difficult, but then I HAVE been going round and round it for a long time! LOL

Yep, that's the way to do! Depends on the car of course but I find at Druids I'm turning in at between 85 MPH and 95 MPH in road cars. Highest exit speed I've seen in a 'normal' road car was about 108 MPH (on the speedo of course) in a 968 CS... bit hairy and scary over the bump! But that was REALLY hanging it out to dry! LOL

Last week though, the Ultima's Stack dash was momentarily displaying 137 MPH as I passed that second piece of kerb approaching Druids, and 112 MPH on the crest of the bump at the exit! But it was firmly planted on the road with it too - that'll be down to the huge rear wing! I only did four laps in it and managed a 1:54, without getting close to its limits!

[MrOnTheRopes]

NIIIICE!!!!!! :-)

[instructor]

MrOnTheRopes said:

NIIIICE!!!!!! :-)

Are you going to Brands on Tuesday?

[MrOnTheRopes]

Sadly not, I'm just too busy at work :-(

Oulton 10th is going to be a struggle (with key personnel on hols then I'm gonna be doing extra) - but I've gotta try!

[instructor]

It seems a few people were downloading the Oulton lap mpeg off my website and as it was a big file it was causing havoc with the bandwidth! LOL

So I have moved it (I've edited the pervious post with the link in too) - it's now here: www.tarnold.clipped.co.uk/~onlinetd/oultonlap.mpeg (right click it and select 'save target as')

[fastfreddy]

There's a partial lap with an instructor's commentary on the Drivedata website which you might find useful.
It's also got on-screen telemetry so you can see what speeds and g-forces they are doing. Pretty cool.
It's the first video on this page:
www.drivedata.com/videos.html



>> Edited by fastfreddy on Saturday 17th July 17:35

[powelly]

instructor said:

Careful you don't outbrake yourself and end up in the gravel at Shell... Shell is definately a typical slow in fast out corner - it's a banked hairpin, very, very late turn in, straightening out the exit as much as possible and using the banking in the middle of the corner to help the acceleration.

Now I can tell you know a damn sight more than me, so don't treat this question as criticism... The line around the hairpin.. the last day I was there the instructor I had told me that an early entry carrying more speed onto the camber was quicker. Is the line through there so critical? I did find the camber fall away on the exit very unsettling... and by the end of the day, my right elbow was soooo painful throwing the griff into the hairpin (no PAS!).

I've driven it twice, and I have too say, much more enjoyable than Brands or Silverstone.

Plus the TVRCC days are a damn good crowd, above all else anjoy the day!

[instructor]

powelly said:

Now I can tell you know a damn sight more than me, so don't treat this question as criticism... The line around the hairpin.. the last day I was there the instructor I had told me that an early entry carrying more speed onto the camber was quicker. Is the line through there so critical? I did find the camber fall away on the exit very unsettling... and by the end of the day, my right elbow was soooo painful throwing the griff into the hairpin (no PAS!).

Ok I wondered when someone would ask that! LOL

I tend to teach the classic very late, deep entry to a hairpin (as do most racing schools), which means slowing down more because the turn in is very tight (but then you can brake later too), then really straigtening out the exit and getting the power on very early. IMHO I would say that is the easiest way to do it too. I teach that way because it's safer, it allows you to brake and change gear in a straight line, get the car settled and drive it out of the corner smoothly and tidily.

The 'new way' is to turn in early and hug the inside line, and then get on the power as soon as you can. But to make this work (i.e. to be quick) you need to brake into the apex (or rather, the clipping point), either trail braking or left foot braking, which is more difficult for the novice. If you don't brake into the apex, you are either going too slow to start with, or, you will arrive at the apex carrying too much speed and either wash out wide on the exit or you'll have to lift. Personally, I think the car is having to work harder this way too, and you can't get on the power as early.

In truth I think it depends much on the car. Something with a lot of grunt will, IMHO, benefit from the old method, where perhaps a modern hot hatch would benefit more from the new.

Next time out I'll do a little experiment and see which is quickest in the same car... and I'll post the result here.

I must say though, that in my experience, I usually find myself carrying much more speed out of Shell than the guys who turn in early... including another instructor I know who is a big advocate of left-foot braking/early turn in.

Finally though... it's the exit speed of ANY corner that is most important, so do whatever it takes to acheive that in your car... BUT... remember you are on a track day... whichever method gives the advantage, the advantage is only going to be small... unless you are absolutely on the limit it won't really make a lot of difference... and on a track day, you shoudn't be on the absolute limit!



>> Edited by instructor on Monday 19th July 11:36