Nurburgring 2018

[Jim1556]

I'm at DN19 in my M3 (or a Cayman R if the stars align and I can prise one from a current owner!)

Can't bloody wait!

I'll be there Thursday afternoon so I'll have to find a place to watch Kevin fly past with a buried throttle. Tempted by the passenger lap, but can't guarantee my arrival time...

[Digga]

As I read the 'offer' it looked to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that the cost of the lap included your entry fee to the Manthey track day on 24th too. It does look a very good deal.

[doogalman]

J.M.T said:

Just got back from the Circuit Days event. I must say that even though I think tourist days have there place and from my previous 2 flying visits on the way to spa have given me the chance to have a little go at the ring, for anyone wanting to take there time and start to learn the ring the track days are defo the place to go.

I don't think there was 1 red flag yesterday.

J

I was instructing for Circuit Days and it was indeed an excellent day. Etiquet was absolutly top notch from you guys out there driving.
Sadly there was a red flag, 3 minutes before the day was due to be over a guy had an off at Scwedenkreuz. Guy was Ok but his car not so.
Personally it was one of the best days I've worked on at the ring in 6 years of instructing there.

[iguana]

Digga said:

As I read the 'offer' it looked to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that the cost of the lap included your entry fee to the Manthey track day on 24th too. It does look a very good deal.

Not how it reads to me at all, its pretty clear price for a passenger lap only.

The Manthey day alone is- €999

Edited by iguana on Thursday 26th April 20:01

[nigelonich]

doogalman said:

I was instructing for Circuit Days and it was indeed an excellent day. Etiquet was absolutly top notch from you guys out there driving.
Sadly there was a red flag, 3 minutes before the day was due to be over a guy had an off at Scwedenkreuz. Guy was Ok but his car not so.
Personally it was one of the best days I've worked on at the ring in 6 years of instructing there.

Glad the driver is ok and is this the incident?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokhZ0FFBGI

Do you think the video description of why it happened is correct? "Lifted off midcorner, which caused back-end to come round and he lost control."

I just wondered if it started at the crest as the GT4 and the M3 are going so quick!

[Digga]

iguana said:

Digga said:

As I read the 'offer' it looked to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that the cost of the lap included your entry fee to the Manthey track day on 24th too. It does look a very good deal.

Not how it reads to me at all, its pretty clear price for a passenger lap only.

The Manthey day alone is- €999

Edited by iguana on Thursday 26th April 20:01

Thanks for clarifying.

It's stil a very much unique opportunity, worth a look.

[doogalman]

nigelonich said:

Glad the driver is ok and is this the incident?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokhZ0FFBGI

Do you think the video description of why it happened is correct? "Lifted off midcorner, which caused back-end to come round and he lost control."

I just wondered if it started at the crest as the GT4 and the M3 are going so quick!

Here is the view from the M3 that was on the tail of the GT4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JNRIogThLc&fe...
Looks very much like he lifted after he had passed the turn in point when he would have been better off being on gas driving thru the corner. So much of my coaching is hammering in reference points to get the lines right so at least the driver knows where he should be.

[Jim1556]

I normally brake after the crest from about 140ish once the car's settled, then ease back on the power after short coast.

Surprised a GT4 had lift off overseer, unless it was jerky...

[Digga]

Jim1556 said:

I normally brake after the crest from about 140ish once the car's settled, then ease back on the power after short coast.

Surprised a GT4 had lift off overseer, unless it was jerky...

Or he was unlucky enough to find a bit of a slippery patch out wide.

[RSbandit]

Beware of Schweden kreus! Yeah brake just after the crest and keep power on thru the corner here but always leaving a margin for error , v dangerous part of the track to get it wrong with such high speeds

[e30m3Mark]

doogalman said:

nigelonich said:

Glad the driver is ok and is this the incident?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokhZ0FFBGI

Do you think the video description of why it happened is correct? "Lifted off midcorner, which caused back-end to come round and he lost control."

I just wondered if it started at the crest as the GT4 and the M3 are going so quick!

Here is the view from the M3 that was on the tail of the GT4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JNRIogThLc&fe...
Looks very much like he lifted after he had passed the turn in point when he would have been better off being on gas driving thru the corner. So much of my coaching is hammering in reference points to get the lines right so at least the driver knows where he should be.

Hard to be sure but looked to me also, that the slightest of lifts was enough to break traction.

[Digga]

He might have been the very slightest bit wide on entry to the left. Might also have over-compensated with lock, trying to get back toward apex and provoked the spin. Equally, as I suggested before, and especially off line, there may well have been all sorts of dirt, oil, grease and other debris.

BTG Facebook page spoke about the amount of pollen around last week:
https://www.facebook.com/bridgetogantry/photos/rpp...

On that corner, it really would not take much.

[nigelonich]

Digga said:

On that corner, it really would not take much.

Tell me about it, I went off there last year on the first day or Ringmeisters Prime last year hence my interest in this GT4 incident:

Although it had been wet the night before, the weather and track conditions were perfect and I (350-400laps) was in my 996.2 GT3 CS (Ohlins, Cup 2 and RS29).

I was taking it easy most of the morning after the sighting laps. I had a few peculiar moments of rear end instability at places like Pflanzgarten and Galgenkopf which I put down to tyres being over pressure. I went to ED and set the hot pressure to my normal settings and went back out. I managed a full lap and things felt better so I decided on the second lap I would wind the car up on the more open sections of the track. As I went over the crest of Swedish Cross I was doing 154mph from the footage and I was on the right hand side where I should have been looking to take the left down to Arenberg where I normally dab the brake just to get down a bit so the car remains stable.

However, right at the crest the rear of the car just completed a very lazy oscillation which I knew I couldn't brake through or I would definitely go off onto the grass on the RHS so I decided to take the corner the moment the car stabilized. By this point it was already over and I had obviously 'lifted' and not applied the brake and the rear end started to go. I really thought I was going to keep it on the tarmac as I was sliding backwards at 100mph down to Aremberg gravel trap. About 50m before the gravel trap the car went onto the grass (remember the rain the night before) and the car sped up and kissed the armco. The damage was minor (tailpipe, bumper and a broken rear light) but the kink in the pipe and my head being scrambled resulted in an early bath.

I spent a long time trying to understand what had gone wrong convinced it was a suspension issue. However, turned out my coolant manifold on the LHS bank seal had failed and the moments of instability I had experienced earlier in the day where likely where I was at high revs and the rear end was light where the spray was hitting the rear left tyre.

Back again this year........

[Digga]

nigelonich said:

I spent a long time trying to understand what had gone wrong convinced it was a suspension issue. However, turned out my coolant manifold on the LHS bank seal had failed and the moments of instability I had experienced earlier in the day where likely where I was at high revs and the rear end was light where the spray was hitting the rear left tyre.

Which reminds me, and also apropos of 'that' 14 car 'Ring pileup in October, caused by blown 997 GT3 coolant, anyone following me on circuit at DN19 will be pleased to know I've had all coolant joints checked and, where appropriate, pinned, by Sports & Classic.

[LaSource]

nigelonich said:

Tell me about it, I went off there last year on the first day or Ringmeisters Prime last year hence my interest in this GT4 incident:

Although it had been wet the night before, the weather and track conditions were perfect and I (350-400laps) was in my 996.2 GT3 CS (Ohlins, Cup 2 and RS29).

I was taking it easy most of the morning after the sighting laps. I had a few peculiar moments of rear end instability at places like Pflanzgarten and Galgenkopf which I put down to tyres being over pressure. I went to ED and set the hot pressure to my normal settings and went back out. I managed a full lap and things felt better so I decided on the second lap I would wind the car up on the more open sections of the track. As I went over the crest of Swedish Cross I was doing 154mph from the footage and I was on the right hand side where I should have been looking to take the left down to Arenberg where I normally dab the brake just to get down a bit so the car remains stable.

However, right at the crest the rear of the car just completed a very lazy oscillation which I knew I couldn't brake through or I would definitely go off onto the grass on the RHS so I decided to take the corner the moment the car stabilized. By this point it was already over and I had obviously 'lifted' and not applied the brake and the rear end started to go. I really thought I was going to keep it on the tarmac as I was sliding backwards at 100mph down to Aremberg gravel trap. About 50m before the gravel trap the car went onto the grass (remember the rain the night before) and the car sped up and kissed the armco. The damage was minor (tailpipe, bumper and a broken rear light) but the kink in the pipe and my head being scrambled resulted in an early bath.

I spent a long time trying to understand what had gone wrong convinced it was a suspension issue. However, turned out my coolant manifold on the LHS bank seal had failed and the moments of instability I had experienced earlier in the day where likely where I was at high revs and the rear end was light where the spray was hitting the rear left tyre.

Back again this year........

154mph? is that gps speed or speedo?

Think I hit about that much gps speed (or maybe 150mph) in the dip before the crest in a 996.2 GT3...though I guess I start to ease off just prior to the crest and then brush the brakes after it to scrub off a little speed and settle things a little before the left kink.

Your description (if I am understanding it right) sounds a bit hotter than that which I guess leaves even less capacity to deal with any 'issues'

Anyway, not criticising just interesting to rear another driver in the same car going over that section.

[Pdelamare]

LaSource said:

154mph? is that gps speed or speedo?

Think I hit about that much gps speed (or maybe 150mph) in the dip before the crest in a 996.2 GT3...though I guess I start to ease off just prior to the crest and then brush the brakes after it to scrub off a little speed and settle things a little before the left kink.

Your description (if I am understanding it right) sounds a bit hotter than that which I guess leaves even less capacity to deal with any 'issues'

Anyway, not criticising just interesting to rear another driver in the same car going over that section.

My old E92 M3 running under 400hp is fine at 154mph GPS on the crest before SX. The GT3 in front running the same pace. The Schirmer cars and others I’ve seen at 160mph. I’m sure a GT3 will be ok at the higher figures also, GT2 being an order higher yet.

Edited by Pdelamare on Saturday 5th May 12:47

[mmm-five]

Even the less powerful Z4MC will hit 145mph.

[Wh00sher]

154 on the PBox in my Golf MK2. But as you can see, I need a taller 5th as I hit the limiter in 5th just after the crest before hitting the brakes if I get a good run through Flugplatz.


Saying that, my actual apex speed is less now than it was 5 or 6 years ago. Even though I`ve done a load of laps it`s one of those corners that I`ve come to realise dropping a few mph is probably a good idea..

Or I`m just getting old

[Pdelamare]

154mph is a very popular speed to be hitting at this part of the track.

[nigelonich]

LaSource said:

154mph? is that gps speed or speedo?

Think I hit about that much gps speed (or maybe 150mph) in the dip before the crest in a 996.2 GT3...though I guess I start to ease off just prior to the crest and then brush the brakes after it to scrub off a little speed and settle things a little before the left kink.

Your description (if I am understanding it right) sounds a bit hotter than that which I guess leaves even less capacity to deal with any 'issues'

Anyway, not criticising just interesting to rear another driver in the same car going over that section.

From my Race Navigator data.