Nurburgring 2018
Discussion
RSbandit said:
Digga said:
Speed differentials are always going to provide the potential for danger. There is no doubt about that.
Last VLN ably demonstrated the hazard, and this with top-level professional drivers: https://www.facebook.com/nuerburgring/videos/25441...
Generally I quite like the 'buzz' of race cars passing you, flat out, but on the other hand, it can be disconcerting and even experienced track day drivers will be busy just trying to get the hang of the 'Ring for their first few trips, so I can see it might intimidate some.
Wow incredible save from the guy in the Merc scary stuff Last VLN ably demonstrated the hazard, and this with top-level professional drivers: https://www.facebook.com/nuerburgring/videos/25441...
Generally I quite like the 'buzz' of race cars passing you, flat out, but on the other hand, it can be disconcerting and even experienced track day drivers will be busy just trying to get the hang of the 'Ring for their first few trips, so I can see it might intimidate some.
Wh00sher said:
You are correct, it needs the drivers on track to report driving they feel is not acceptable on the event. That happened on Day 1 and Darren told us to speak to every driver on Friday morning explaining in no uncertain terms the fact it was a track day and certain driving standards would not be tolerated.
I`d like to think standards were much improved on Friday and we only had to speak to a very few people that day.
Whilst non of the novices may have had an incident, there was some less than ideal driving from some. Braking mid corner for no apparent reason and dropping to what felt like walking pace when they probably felt they were going too fast or not indicating to invite the train of cars behind didn`t help.
I know we all had to learn sometime, I`d like to think I`m a courteous driver and wait for the invite rather than diving up the inside, but they have to take some responsibility for the overtake, it was hard to know if they were moving out of the way to let you past or taking a weird line sometimes.
Every event is a learning experience and one of the most complained about things a few years ago was race teams. Darren took the decision to not allow them on the events after a lot of feedback. Now people complain about novices.
I don`t envy him trying to find the balance. It`s surprising how you see some situations reported aren`t quite as black and white as the drivers involved may believe.
I have to say, I had a bloody fantastic time
I fully agree I also had a fantastic time ! I`d like to think standards were much improved on Friday and we only had to speak to a very few people that day.
Whilst non of the novices may have had an incident, there was some less than ideal driving from some. Braking mid corner for no apparent reason and dropping to what felt like walking pace when they probably felt they were going too fast or not indicating to invite the train of cars behind didn`t help.
I know we all had to learn sometime, I`d like to think I`m a courteous driver and wait for the invite rather than diving up the inside, but they have to take some responsibility for the overtake, it was hard to know if they were moving out of the way to let you past or taking a weird line sometimes.
Every event is a learning experience and one of the most complained about things a few years ago was race teams. Darren took the decision to not allow them on the events after a lot of feedback. Now people complain about novices.
I don`t envy him trying to find the balance. It`s surprising how you see some situations reported aren`t quite as black and white as the drivers involved may believe.
I have to say, I had a bloody fantastic time
Regarding your other very valid points:
Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t read anyone complaining about ‘novices’? Furthermore, who qualifies as a ‘novice’? In particular when compared to someone on a GT3 RS going full attack and overtaking on the right without invitation? Who is the ‘novice’ in that situation?
If you see my earlier posts, and I am maybe wrong, but so called ‘novices’ may in fac be the lifeblood in the long run for such business?. As I don’t consider myself an expert of the ring (having ‘only’ done about 45 laps in real life and possibly several hundred with a full rig on my PlayStation), I decided that my first two hours with the track live, I would have a DN instructor. I am glad the instructor was guiding me during these laps, as he could see first hand how dangerously a small number of drivers where behaving and he could objectively asses the situation and report back and deal with it accordingly.
Thanks to DN’s timely intervention there was already a massive improvement on day two.
Whilst I agree with the challenge on how to select your target market for an event like this, when one appears to have in one extreme racing teams, and in the other so called ‘novices’, the conclusion may be somewhere in the middle:
1) Define who qualifies as a novice;
2) Allow so called ‘novices’ to participate in the event provided they undertake 2 hours of instruction time (at a cost) and use an L sign. During these 2 hours it will be clear to the instructor if these novices are a threat to themselves and/ or others and take action accordingly. With regards to racing teams, it is difficult for me to say as I’m unsure if they pay the same entry or not; if the same entry fee, then I would decline, otherwise I would consider provided none of the issues as seen at DN20 occur (maybe with a penalty clause in the registration contract?).
I’ll stop here as it is too long a post already and I think you get my point !
Boxster_racer said:
Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t read anyone complaining about ‘novices’? Furthermore, who qualifies as a ‘novice’? In particular when compared to someone on a GT3 RS going full attack and overtaking on the right without invitation? Who is the ‘novice’ in that situation?
If you see my earlier posts, and I am maybe wrong, but so called ‘novices’ may in fac be the lifeblood in the long run for such business?. As I don’t consider myself an expert of the ring (having ‘only’ done about 45 laps in real life and possibly several hundred with a full rig on my PlayStation), I decided that my first two hours with the track live, I would have a DN instructor. I am glad the instructor was guiding me during these laps, as he could see first hand how dangerously a small number of drivers where behaving and he could objectively asses the situation and report back and deal with it accordingly.
Thanks to DN’s timely intervention there was already a massive improvement on day two.
Whilst I agree with the challenge on how to select your target market for an event like this, when one appears to have in one extreme racing teams, and in the other so called ‘novices’, the conclusion may be somewhere in the middle:
1) Define who qualifies as a novice;
2) Allow so called ‘novices’ to participate in the event provided they undertake 2 hours of instruction time (at a cost) and use an L sign. During these 2 hours it will be clear to the instructor if these novices are a threat to themselves and/ or others and take action accordingly. With regards to racing teams, it is difficult for me to say as I’m unsure if they pay the same entry or not; if the same entry fee, then I would decline, otherwise I would consider provided none of the issues as seen at DN20 occur (maybe with a penalty clause in the registration contract?).
I’ll stop here as it is too long a post already and I think you get my point !
I do get your point, and I agree If you see my earlier posts, and I am maybe wrong, but so called ‘novices’ may in fac be the lifeblood in the long run for such business?. As I don’t consider myself an expert of the ring (having ‘only’ done about 45 laps in real life and possibly several hundred with a full rig on my PlayStation), I decided that my first two hours with the track live, I would have a DN instructor. I am glad the instructor was guiding me during these laps, as he could see first hand how dangerously a small number of drivers where behaving and he could objectively asses the situation and report back and deal with it accordingly.
Thanks to DN’s timely intervention there was already a massive improvement on day two.
Whilst I agree with the challenge on how to select your target market for an event like this, when one appears to have in one extreme racing teams, and in the other so called ‘novices’, the conclusion may be somewhere in the middle:
1) Define who qualifies as a novice;
2) Allow so called ‘novices’ to participate in the event provided they undertake 2 hours of instruction time (at a cost) and use an L sign. During these 2 hours it will be clear to the instructor if these novices are a threat to themselves and/ or others and take action accordingly. With regards to racing teams, it is difficult for me to say as I’m unsure if they pay the same entry or not; if the same entry fee, then I would decline, otherwise I would consider provided none of the issues as seen at DN20 occur (maybe with a penalty clause in the registration contract?).
I’ll stop here as it is too long a post already and I think you get my point !
My post wasn`t really aimed at this thread but in reference to when Darren asked in the briefing who had never driven a lap of the ring and several hands went up. From my experience that`s unusual on the DN events .
I had someone come up to me complaining about how they were learning the Ring, taking it steady and driving what they could see when a car overtook them under braking on the right. He was quite indignant as this was specifically mentioned in the briefing as left hand side overtakes only and with consent.
5 minutes later a regular came across and started apologising "I just came to let you know I had to overtake someone under braking and on the right ! I`ve done a lot of these events and know it isn`t allowed, but he just anchored on to a crawl with no warning then moved towards the apex leaving me with the option of going onto the grass or passing around the outside on the right. I appreciate the ultimately it`s the car following who has the responsibility to make the overtake and I was waiting until after the corner where I expected him to move across. I was already driving slower than usual but he just anchored on."
Now ultimately you would most likely side with the driver ahead but if he`d driven at the expected pace there wouldn`t have been an issue as the following car would have simply waited until the next straight and passed without incident. We go on these trackdays to drive quickly and you can usually tell by following the car ahead what their pace is and how fast they will take a corner compared to you.
Not sure if you were even asking that question but what I was trying to say is that sometimes, a novice may inadvertently cause a problem without ever realising they are doing so.
I`m just glad I don`t have to get involved in deciding the selection criteria and can just help out on the event whilst driving the best circuit in the world
Wh00sher said:
Not sure if you were even asking that question but what I was trying to say is that sometimes, a novice may inadvertently cause a problem without ever realising they are doing so.
I think this is a relevant point.I'm sure some transgressions - like the more experienced driver who 'had' to overtake on the wrong side, can be understood better when both sides of the incident are heard.
Equally, WRT missing a waved red/yellow flag, it is possible to miss the first flag. Humans, even professional racing drivers do err.
As you say, I'm glad not to be making the call but, at the same time, if all drivers know the even is being policed, it does tend to raise the level of compliance.
Wh00sher said:
I do get your point, and I agree
My post wasn`t really aimed at this thread but in reference to when Darren asked in the briefing who had never driven a lap of the ring and several hands went up. From my experience that`s unusual on the DN events .
I had someone come up to me complaining about how they were learning the Ring, taking it steady and driving what they could see when a car overtook them under braking on the right. He was quite indignant as this was specifically mentioned in the briefing as left hand side overtakes only and with consent.
5 minutes later a regular came across and started apologising "I just came to let you know I had to overtake someone under braking and on the right ! I`ve done a lot of these events and know it isn`t allowed, but he just anchored on to a crawl with no warning then moved towards the apex leaving me with the option of going onto the grass or passing around the outside on the right. I appreciate the ultimately it`s the car following who has the responsibility to make the overtake and I was waiting until after the corner where I expected him to move across. I was already driving slower than usual but he just anchored on."
Now ultimately you would most likely side with the driver ahead but if he`d driven at the expected pace there wouldn`t have been an issue as the following car would have simply waited until the next straight and passed without incident. We go on these trackdays to drive quickly and you can usually tell by following the car ahead what their pace is and how fast they will take a corner compared to you.
Not sure if you were even asking that question but what I was trying to say is that sometimes, a novice may inadvertently cause a problem without ever realising they are doing so.
I`m just glad I don`t have to get involved in deciding the selection criteria and can just help out on the event whilst driving the best circuit in the world
I’m absolutely with you on that one. There were a number of occasions that the pace a small number of cars had was indeed very slow and hesitant (the latter perhaps more dangerous than the former). Maybe instruction would have been helpful for those raising their hands at the briefing?My post wasn`t really aimed at this thread but in reference to when Darren asked in the briefing who had never driven a lap of the ring and several hands went up. From my experience that`s unusual on the DN events .
I had someone come up to me complaining about how they were learning the Ring, taking it steady and driving what they could see when a car overtook them under braking on the right. He was quite indignant as this was specifically mentioned in the briefing as left hand side overtakes only and with consent.
5 minutes later a regular came across and started apologising "I just came to let you know I had to overtake someone under braking and on the right ! I`ve done a lot of these events and know it isn`t allowed, but he just anchored on to a crawl with no warning then moved towards the apex leaving me with the option of going onto the grass or passing around the outside on the right. I appreciate the ultimately it`s the car following who has the responsibility to make the overtake and I was waiting until after the corner where I expected him to move across. I was already driving slower than usual but he just anchored on."
Now ultimately you would most likely side with the driver ahead but if he`d driven at the expected pace there wouldn`t have been an issue as the following car would have simply waited until the next straight and passed without incident. We go on these trackdays to drive quickly and you can usually tell by following the car ahead what their pace is and how fast they will take a corner compared to you.
Not sure if you were even asking that question but what I was trying to say is that sometimes, a novice may inadvertently cause a problem without ever realising they are doing so.
I`m just glad I don`t have to get involved in deciding the selection criteria and can just help out on the event whilst driving the best circuit in the world
In my case I planned ahead both when overtaken and overtaking. On the former, indicating well in advance, moving to the right and keeping my pace when safe. On the latter, give the car in front a breathing space to see me, and very rarely had to use my lights to show I was behind them waiting to overtake them. Both approaches worked well overall, and having my 2hr instruction with my DN instructor had a great part to play. Having said this, it would be good to get other drivers feedback too.
When the session ended early and we were red flagged due to dangerous weather condition, I had a feeling of joy of how amazing the experience was, and sadness thinking about how long to go until been able to enjoy the Ring once again !
Boxster_racer said:
When the session ended early and we were red flagged due to dangerous weather condition, I had a feeling of joy of how amazing the experience was, and sadness thinking about how long to go until been able to enjoy the Ring once again !
Which is exactly what I took away from the afternoon and why we keep going back year after year Perhaps I`ll see you over there next year, it`s always good to meet people in person after speaking to them online.
Wh00sher said:
You are correct, it needs the drivers on track to report driving they feel is not acceptable on the event. That happened on Day 1 and Darren told us to speak to every driver on Friday morning explaining in no uncertain terms the fact it was a track day and certain driving standards would not be tolerated.
That did indeed happen, and I was firmly reminded about the basic track rules by your son on Friday morningHowever, it's worth bearing in mind that it's not always practical, or even sensible, to report every rule infringement we see
For me hit has to be several rules broken in order to take the time to note the car number, find Darren, and explain that someone is going to cause an incident
For instance at DN19 within 30 mins of the event starting one driver managed to break four rules
No overtaking on Sighting Laps
No overtaking on the Right
No overtaking in the Braking Zone
No overtaking without Consent
I did report him, I reckon I was doing everyone a favour
Wh00sher said:
Which is exactly what I took away from the afternoon and why we keep going back year after year
Perhaps I`ll see you over there next year, it`s always good to meet people in person after speaking to them online.
Hope to see you there too !Perhaps I`ll see you over there next year, it`s always good to meet people in person after speaking to them online.
I’ll see if I can buy the season ticket next year.
Also, whilst I love my car, I’m trying to get a little upgrade more suited for the green hell !
ukkid35 said:
That did indeed happen, and I was firmly reminded about the basic track rules by your son on Friday morning
However, it's worth bearing in mind that it's not always practical, or even sensible, to report every rule infringement we see
For me hit has to be several rules broken in order to take the time to note the car number, find Darren, and explain that someone is going to cause an incident
For instance at DN19 within 30 mins of the event starting one driver managed to break four rules
No overtaking on Sighting Laps
No overtaking on the Right
No overtaking in the Braking Zone
No overtaking without Consent
I did report him, I reckon I was doing everyone a favour
You certainly did I’m sure ! However, it's worth bearing in mind that it's not always practical, or even sensible, to report every rule infringement we see
For me hit has to be several rules broken in order to take the time to note the car number, find Darren, and explain that someone is going to cause an incident
For instance at DN19 within 30 mins of the event starting one driver managed to break four rules
No overtaking on Sighting Laps
No overtaking on the Right
No overtaking in the Braking Zone
No overtaking without Consent
I did report him, I reckon I was doing everyone a favour
ukkid35 said:
For instance at DN19 within 30 mins of the event starting one driver managed to break four rules
No overtaking on Sighting Laps
No overtaking on the Right
No overtaking in the Braking Zone
No overtaking without Consent
I did report him, I reckon I was doing everyone a favour
Was this the rented BMW E36 3 series track car thing? If so, you were not the only one to report it. No overtaking on Sighting Laps
No overtaking on the Right
No overtaking in the Braking Zone
No overtaking without Consent
I did report him, I reckon I was doing everyone a favour
Well after DN was over and a busy weekend of TF, I was then at Spa instructing on 3 consecutive days of trackdays. Get home last night and log in to PH and see what's happening.
DN crops up! As it always does but normally for the better reasons. However negative comments from whatever side should always be considered carefully by whoever is running whatever organiser it is. Yes it is great to have feedback that praises an event but rarely if ever have I instructed on any Nordschleife day that there has not been negatives.
Yes where I was sitting on DN there was too much eagerness and at times agressive tendancies exhibited to pass. On occasions the slower guys can be atributed a fair
of the blame for creating the situation that was the root of why the bad behavior occurred. BUT the more experienced guy should still hang their heads in shame for breaking the rules of the event.
Yes it can be a right pain in the backside when going quick and enjoying your lap but why not do the correct thing and just stay left and leave your blinker on. It is a trackday not a race! Wait wait and if needed keep waiting for the guy to move over. People get hurt here at the Ring, cars get destroyed, infrastructure gets damaged. Ego's are often also blown away from the Ring regulars, but sadly most forget that often the guys that are relatively new to the place may have experienced it in slightly different situations. I have had guys that have previously only been on the driver training courses held there. They are often pretty good with their basic concept of where the track goes, but they are not taught how if feels to suddenly find themselves in a near race scenario where they are suddenly being mugged by guys running well below 8 min. It is intimidating for them and even more so for the poor sod like me (if they have taken on an instructor) trying to pre-empt everything going on behind the car while still doing my job of teaching them the idea lines and keeping them from destroying their pride and joy, and in some cases their lifes.
An open trackday is what we all wish for at pretty much any track, but that also means that there is always the next lap to look forward to if the one you are on is not the ideal you were wanting.
A briefing is just what it should be, a place to be briefed as to the rules. Don't break them under any circumstances. Play nice and remember everyone pays the same. If it was my show I would have a zero tolerance policy. Backed up with sin-bins and immediate bans fron the event. It isn't my show so I can't be the ruler of the world. I would be harsh as if we all understood the rules of the briefing we wouldn't be breaking them.
I would have red-flagged on the thursday and got every driver in for a second briefing. As obviously there were non english speakers who didn't get the idea of the rules. Also rein in the aggressiveness of what many others were exhibiting. Plus to also help the newbies to create a few less of the catalysts maybe even to push more instruction.
Race teams can in my experience be a pita. Hotheads pushing for testing purposes and having little regard for others.
The Radical losing it on entry to the circuit is not good. It would not have been impossible for 4 people to die in that sort of fail. Not what any person wants or expects on what is meant to be a day of fun. On a footnote a guy died at Spa a couple of weeks ago on a trackday. Modern fia homologated safety standards but still it can happen.
Timing is still a big cause of all the testosterone bullying on track. I see it daily here at the Ring, novices/experienced guys screwing about on the limit for that magical time.
Guys, enjoy the trackdays at the Ring. But please please play nice. We all started somewhere on our love affair of this great track. Problems need to be resolved as and when but can only be done if reported and acted upon. Yes slow guy were reported but I also heard many complaints from the quicker regulars about other quicker guys. So not all the blame rests with the dlower guys struggling to get upto speed.
Enjoy, look forward to any comments. But in the mean time I am off to do stuff before my evening of instructing in touristenfahten.
Roy
DN crops up! As it always does but normally for the better reasons. However negative comments from whatever side should always be considered carefully by whoever is running whatever organiser it is. Yes it is great to have feedback that praises an event but rarely if ever have I instructed on any Nordschleife day that there has not been negatives.
Yes where I was sitting on DN there was too much eagerness and at times agressive tendancies exhibited to pass. On occasions the slower guys can be atributed a fair
of the blame for creating the situation that was the root of why the bad behavior occurred. BUT the more experienced guy should still hang their heads in shame for breaking the rules of the event. Yes it can be a right pain in the backside when going quick and enjoying your lap but why not do the correct thing and just stay left and leave your blinker on. It is a trackday not a race! Wait wait and if needed keep waiting for the guy to move over. People get hurt here at the Ring, cars get destroyed, infrastructure gets damaged. Ego's are often also blown away from the Ring regulars, but sadly most forget that often the guys that are relatively new to the place may have experienced it in slightly different situations. I have had guys that have previously only been on the driver training courses held there. They are often pretty good with their basic concept of where the track goes, but they are not taught how if feels to suddenly find themselves in a near race scenario where they are suddenly being mugged by guys running well below 8 min. It is intimidating for them and even more so for the poor sod like me (if they have taken on an instructor) trying to pre-empt everything going on behind the car while still doing my job of teaching them the idea lines and keeping them from destroying their pride and joy, and in some cases their lifes.
An open trackday is what we all wish for at pretty much any track, but that also means that there is always the next lap to look forward to if the one you are on is not the ideal you were wanting.
A briefing is just what it should be, a place to be briefed as to the rules. Don't break them under any circumstances. Play nice and remember everyone pays the same. If it was my show I would have a zero tolerance policy. Backed up with sin-bins and immediate bans fron the event. It isn't my show so I can't be the ruler of the world. I would be harsh as if we all understood the rules of the briefing we wouldn't be breaking them.
I would have red-flagged on the thursday and got every driver in for a second briefing. As obviously there were non english speakers who didn't get the idea of the rules. Also rein in the aggressiveness of what many others were exhibiting. Plus to also help the newbies to create a few less of the catalysts maybe even to push more instruction.
Race teams can in my experience be a pita. Hotheads pushing for testing purposes and having little regard for others.
The Radical losing it on entry to the circuit is not good. It would not have been impossible for 4 people to die in that sort of fail. Not what any person wants or expects on what is meant to be a day of fun. On a footnote a guy died at Spa a couple of weeks ago on a trackday. Modern fia homologated safety standards but still it can happen.
Timing is still a big cause of all the testosterone bullying on track. I see it daily here at the Ring, novices/experienced guys screwing about on the limit for that magical time.
Guys, enjoy the trackdays at the Ring. But please please play nice. We all started somewhere on our love affair of this great track. Problems need to be resolved as and when but can only be done if reported and acted upon. Yes slow guy were reported but I also heard many complaints from the quicker regulars about other quicker guys. So not all the blame rests with the dlower guys struggling to get upto speed.
Enjoy, look forward to any comments. But in the mean time I am off to do stuff before my evening of instructing in touristenfahten.
Roy
Digga said:
Whilst some might consider a 'novice' sticker carries a bit of stigma, it might help avoid a few issues. It is not without precedent.
Came back safe on Saturday night after having a fantastic time. Here's my quick round up. Having not been back to the Ring on a clsoed organised closed track day for some 6 years i could certainly see a massive difference in the type of cars that attended. Definitely upped the ante. I agree with you on this Digga - its not a bad idea. Certainly it may make the very eager GT2 RS give a few more seconds to consider his safe options for passing and/or allow the novice driver time to react and give consent.
Im not sure if this idea has ever been implemented or tested but much like a novice sticker, maybe an " Under instruction " or " Instructor on-board " sticker might be worth looking into. This might again give the car behind better judgment to make a safe pass. I.e. if there is an instructor on board AA) dont do anything silly to overtake for obvious reasons as it will be noted BB) the instructor may for the safety grab the wheel at any time or guide the driver onto a particular entry/exit line. I dont know the exact number of instructors that were on hand this time around to render their services. However for example if there were 10/12 on track that might act as some sort of deterrent.
In general found driver etiquette to be of a high standard. The white track day Mclaren was especially good i thought hanging back and waiting for consent and safe overtake.
Cant remember the last time i ever had to report anyone but personally on this track day i felt the need to bring one car to the attention of the DN team for an unnecessary aggressive overtake as i was approaching Wehrseifen. The much more powerful overtaking car equipped with superior brakes overtook on the left but in a clear braking zone meters before the left handed apex while flashing his lights and without consent. Had to pull out of the left turn in and drastically reduce my speed even further as i was having to run well wide. This particular car was not on GB plates.
On another point raised by one of the above PHers, i also noticed some of the fast track orientated cars had some kind of board gizmos stuck to windscreen and/or GPS units duck taped to the roofs. Of course cant be certain if they were just cameras or in fact telemetry. Some track days i have attended in the UK the organised or track volunteers walk around the pits and actively check for timing equipment and beacons etc...
Anyway, im sure i will get shot down for the above comments.
Closing, I must admit I really enjoyed the damp/wet laps, managed to get some good clear laps in. Being in the only DC2 much fun was had trying out different wet lines.
Many thanks DN20 and volunteers for all your efforts.
zorba_the_greek said:
In general found driver etiquette to be of a high standard.
It is, I think the DN crew organise things extremely well.For the avoidance of doubt, IMHO any changes - (positive) criticisms - are only to bring things up to an even higher level.
I certainly hope to be booking DN days in 2019.
Digga said:
zorba_the_greek said:
In general found driver etiquette to be of a high standard.
It is, I think the DN crew organise things extremely well.For the avoidance of doubt, IMHO any changes - (positive) criticisms - are only to bring things up to an even higher level.
I certainly hope to be booking DN days in 2019.
BobToc said:
Can I ask what happened at Spa?
Someone had problem in Eau-rouge/Raidion. Do not know the full details, needless to say always sad. Was on a day at Spa years ago and ended up having a go at prople because they were whinging about tge tracktime being lost while some poor sod was being loaded into the helicopter.
doogalman said:
Well after DN was over and a busy weekend of TF, I was then at Spa instructing on 3 consecutive days of trackdays. Get home last night and log in to PH and see what's happening.
DN crops up! As it always does but normally for the better reasons. However negative comments from whatever side should always be considered carefully by whoever is running whatever organiser it is. Yes it is great to have feedback that praises an event but rarely if ever have I instructed on any Nordschleife day that there has not been negatives.
Yes where I was sitting on DN there was too much eagerness and at times agressive tendancies exhibited to pass. On occasions the slower guys can be atributed a fair of the blame for creating the situation that was the root of why the bad behavior occurred. BUT the more experienced guy should still hang their heads in shame for breaking the rules of the event.
Yes it can be a right pain in the backside when going quick and enjoying your lap but why not do the correct thing and just stay left and leave your blinker on. It is a trackday not a race! Wait wait and if needed keep waiting for the guy to move over. People get hurt here at the Ring, cars get destroyed, infrastructure gets damaged. Ego's are often also blown away from the Ring regulars, but sadly most forget that often the guys that are relatively new to the place may have experienced it in slightly different situations. I have had guys that have previously only been on the driver training courses held there. They are often pretty good with their basic concept of where the track goes, but they are not taught how if feels to suddenly find themselves in a near race scenario where they are suddenly being mugged by guys running well below 8 min. It is intimidating for them and even more so for the poor sod like me (if they have taken on an instructor) trying to pre-empt everything going on behind the car while still doing my job of teaching them the idea lines and keeping them from destroying their pride and joy, and in some cases their lifes.
An open trackday is what we all wish for at pretty much any track, but that also means that there is always the next lap to look forward to if the one you are on is not the ideal you were wanting.
A briefing is just what it should be, a place to be briefed as to the rules. Don't break them under any circumstances. Play nice and remember everyone pays the same. If it was my show I would have a zero tolerance policy. Backed up with sin-bins and immediate bans fron the event. It isn't my show so I can't be the ruler of the world. I would be harsh as if we all understood the rules of the briefing we wouldn't be breaking them.
I would have red-flagged on the thursday and got every driver in for a second briefing. As obviously there were non english speakers who didn't get the idea of the rules. Also rein in the aggressiveness of what many others were exhibiting. Plus to also help the newbies to create a few less of the catalysts maybe even to push more instruction.
Race teams can in my experience be a pita. Hotheads pushing for testing purposes and having little regard for others.
The Radical losing it on entry to the circuit is not good. It would not have been impossible for 4 people to die in that sort of fail. Not what any person wants or expects on what is meant to be a day of fun. On a footnote a guy died at Spa a couple of weeks ago on a trackday. Modern fia homologated safety standards but still it can happen.
Timing is still a big cause of all the testosterone bullying on track. I see it daily here at the Ring, novices/experienced guys screwing about on the limit for that magical time.
Guys, enjoy the trackdays at the Ring. But please please play nice. We all started somewhere on our love affair of this great track. Problems need to be resolved as and when but can only be done if reported and acted upon. Yes slow guy were reported but I also heard many complaints from the quicker regulars about other quicker guys. So not all the blame rests with the dlower guys struggling to get upto speed.
Enjoy, look forward to any comments. But in the mean time I am off to do stuff before my evening of instructing in touristenfahten.
Roy
+100 Roy ! DN crops up! As it always does but normally for the better reasons. However negative comments from whatever side should always be considered carefully by whoever is running whatever organiser it is. Yes it is great to have feedback that praises an event but rarely if ever have I instructed on any Nordschleife day that there has not been negatives.
Yes where I was sitting on DN there was too much eagerness and at times agressive tendancies exhibited to pass. On occasions the slower guys can be atributed a fair
of the blame for creating the situation that was the root of why the bad behavior occurred. BUT the more experienced guy should still hang their heads in shame for breaking the rules of the event. Yes it can be a right pain in the backside when going quick and enjoying your lap but why not do the correct thing and just stay left and leave your blinker on. It is a trackday not a race! Wait wait and if needed keep waiting for the guy to move over. People get hurt here at the Ring, cars get destroyed, infrastructure gets damaged. Ego's are often also blown away from the Ring regulars, but sadly most forget that often the guys that are relatively new to the place may have experienced it in slightly different situations. I have had guys that have previously only been on the driver training courses held there. They are often pretty good with their basic concept of where the track goes, but they are not taught how if feels to suddenly find themselves in a near race scenario where they are suddenly being mugged by guys running well below 8 min. It is intimidating for them and even more so for the poor sod like me (if they have taken on an instructor) trying to pre-empt everything going on behind the car while still doing my job of teaching them the idea lines and keeping them from destroying their pride and joy, and in some cases their lifes.
An open trackday is what we all wish for at pretty much any track, but that also means that there is always the next lap to look forward to if the one you are on is not the ideal you were wanting.
A briefing is just what it should be, a place to be briefed as to the rules. Don't break them under any circumstances. Play nice and remember everyone pays the same. If it was my show I would have a zero tolerance policy. Backed up with sin-bins and immediate bans fron the event. It isn't my show so I can't be the ruler of the world. I would be harsh as if we all understood the rules of the briefing we wouldn't be breaking them.
I would have red-flagged on the thursday and got every driver in for a second briefing. As obviously there were non english speakers who didn't get the idea of the rules. Also rein in the aggressiveness of what many others were exhibiting. Plus to also help the newbies to create a few less of the catalysts maybe even to push more instruction.
Race teams can in my experience be a pita. Hotheads pushing for testing purposes and having little regard for others.
The Radical losing it on entry to the circuit is not good. It would not have been impossible for 4 people to die in that sort of fail. Not what any person wants or expects on what is meant to be a day of fun. On a footnote a guy died at Spa a couple of weeks ago on a trackday. Modern fia homologated safety standards but still it can happen.
Timing is still a big cause of all the testosterone bullying on track. I see it daily here at the Ring, novices/experienced guys screwing about on the limit for that magical time.
Guys, enjoy the trackdays at the Ring. But please please play nice. We all started somewhere on our love affair of this great track. Problems need to be resolved as and when but can only be done if reported and acted upon. Yes slow guy were reported but I also heard many complaints from the quicker regulars about other quicker guys. So not all the blame rests with the dlower guys struggling to get upto speed.
Enjoy, look forward to any comments. But in the mean time I am off to do stuff before my evening of instructing in touristenfahten.
Roy
Greetings from your padewan
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff