Tin Top RWD Track Day Car - £2-3k?
Discussion
rossyl said:
Car wise - I think my options are:
RX8 or 350z. Though a 350z does seem a heavy car.
If I get a RX8 i would need to go into the higher categories due to the way wankel engines are categorised. Also not being able to sping backwards and the flooded engine stuff has made me wary.
What do you mean, not being able to spin the engine backwards?RX8 or 350z. Though a 350z does seem a heavy car.
If I get a RX8 i would need to go into the higher categories due to the way wankel engines are categorised. Also not being able to sping backwards and the flooded engine stuff has made me wary.
I have run one as a track car since 2013, i've heard many minus points against the RX8, but this one is new to me.
Honestly, do not worry about the flooding, its a total non issue.
Matt
C70R said:
He's absolutely comical sometimes, and I very much doubt he has any real-world experience of the OP's scenario. I was waiting for the TR7/Camaro suggestion...
Honestly OP, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time driving a track car to/from tracks (most decent tracks are 2-3hr+ from Central London), if you can't tow then make sure you buy something which is suitable for the schlep because otherwise it will get old quickly.
It's all fine and well to spend £3k on the ultimate, hardcore, stripped, polybushed MX5 for the 5-6hrs you'll spend on track during the day. However, you don't want to find yourself then stuck in it for 2-3hrs on the return journey, when it's revving its nuts off at 80mph, the seat is making your backside numb, it's boiling/freezing, and the exhaust/road noise is giving you a headache.
That's a way to fall out of love with trackdays very quickly, and the very reason I'm getting a more civilised one next time.
That's ok, I seem to think less and less of you each time you post. You are rude, obtuse and offensive. And clearly have a complete inability to accept that not everyone likes the same thing as you.Honestly OP, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time driving a track car to/from tracks (most decent tracks are 2-3hr+ from Central London), if you can't tow then make sure you buy something which is suitable for the schlep because otherwise it will get old quickly.
It's all fine and well to spend £3k on the ultimate, hardcore, stripped, polybushed MX5 for the 5-6hrs you'll spend on track during the day. However, you don't want to find yourself then stuck in it for 2-3hrs on the return journey, when it's revving its nuts off at 80mph, the seat is making your backside numb, it's boiling/freezing, and the exhaust/road noise is giving you a headache.
That's a way to fall out of love with trackdays very quickly, and the very reason I'm getting a more civilised one next time.
Hi All
To respond to many thoughts.
Noise - i've actually fixed this significantly in the MX5 by replacing the upper and lower gear lever boots. Made a huge difference. Seriously before that we were shouting at each other to be heard.
An MR2 with a hardtop i think is a questionable improvement on a MX5 with a hardtop.
Car wise - I think my options are:
RX8 or 350z. Though a 350z does seem a heavy car.
If I get a RX8 i would need to go into the higher categories due to the way wankel engines are categorised. Also not being able to sping backwards and the flooded engine stuff has made me wary.
I therefore might just go whole hog and get a 350z but think i might wait another season.
2019 season i think i will stick with the MX5 and upgrade the coilovers.
To respond to many thoughts.
300bhp/ton said:
I suppose first it's worth considering some points.
1. Will any other vehicle for this use really be less tiring or quieter?
2. I'm not sure I get the "too hot" bit. Can't you just put the roof down? Plus we are coming into winter now.
A drop-top without air con can actually be hotter with the roof down. Strange, I do agree. But, when you have zero shade and the sun is as it was this summer, and beating down on you, having the roof up was actually cooler. 1. Will any other vehicle for this use really be less tiring or quieter?
2. I'm not sure I get the "too hot" bit. Can't you just put the roof down? Plus we are coming into winter now.
Noise - i've actually fixed this significantly in the MX5 by replacing the upper and lower gear lever boots. Made a huge difference. Seriously before that we were shouting at each other to be heard.
An MR2 with a hardtop i think is a questionable improvement on a MX5 with a hardtop.
300bhp/ton said:
If it's a dedicated track car, why not look at something more purpose built. Probably still a few older classics that might be viable and kit cars. Maybe something that has been used for rally or track events already.
That won't work for many Sprint regulations. You cannot strip the car out if you want to go in the roadgoing class. That's why BMWs and Porsche's aren't an option i think as they seem to require a complete strip out to be viable.ribiero said:
to add something in a little leftfield, what about an is200 ?
can be lightened up, beams engine isnt terrible, rear wheel drive..
Had a look and the decent engined version is a Auto box in the UK. can be lightened up, beams engine isnt terrible, rear wheel drive..
Evoluzione said:
OP seems to have done a runner, but (as an NC owner with roll over bar) I'm struggling to see how you can manage to hit your head on it? The top bar is behind the head rest.
In an NA the seats are very flimsy and not too tall, your head could easily go above the headrest. In fact, generally your head can quite easily touch the roof, dependent on your build, and you don't need to be a giant for that. For example, with my helmet on, I cannot sit in my normal position in the MX5, I have to tilt the seat back. Car wise - I think my options are:
RX8 or 350z. Though a 350z does seem a heavy car.
If I get a RX8 i would need to go into the higher categories due to the way wankel engines are categorised. Also not being able to sping backwards and the flooded engine stuff has made me wary.
I therefore might just go whole hog and get a 350z but think i might wait another season.
2019 season i think i will stick with the MX5 and upgrade the coilovers.
rossyl said:
If I get a RX8 i would need to go into the higher categories due to the way wankel engines are categorised. Also not being able to sping backwards and the flooded engine stuff has made me wary.
Sorry - missed this thread the first time around but I think you might have misunderstood this a bit? I don't know which series you will be running in, but based on my experience (which you reference earlier in this thread):- In the Javelin series there's a 1.5x multiplier on rotary engines, putting us in the 1800cc-2000cc group along with Clios, Civics and the like. The car is competitive in this group.
- The 'spinning the engine backwards' thing happened only once, when I spun the car at high speed and forgot to put my foot on the clutch. This threw an EML, which was the work of 10 seconds to remove with a ten quid OBD reader - no other issues. I have spun the RX8 many (many!
) times before and since, and it's always restarted and got back up to pace without a hiccup. I once did similar with an MR2 which really didn't want to restart afterwards, so there's nothing to be wary of with rotaries here AFAIK. - We've never flooded it - just run the engine for a minute or two once you switch it on from cold, job's a good'un. Bear in mind during a sprint it will have 20+ hot starts during the day (plus a couple of cold starts in the morning and after lunch) and again this has never been an issue.
300bhp/ton said:
C70R said:
He's absolutely comical sometimes, and I very much doubt he has any real-world experience of the OP's scenario. I was waiting for the TR7/Camaro suggestion...
Honestly OP, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time driving a track car to/from tracks (most decent tracks are 2-3hr+ from Central London), if you can't tow then make sure you buy something which is suitable for the schlep because otherwise it will get old quickly.
It's all fine and well to spend £3k on the ultimate, hardcore, stripped, polybushed MX5 for the 5-6hrs you'll spend on track during the day. However, you don't want to find yourself then stuck in it for 2-3hrs on the return journey, when it's revving its nuts off at 80mph, the seat is making your backside numb, it's boiling/freezing, and the exhaust/road noise is giving you a headache.
That's a way to fall out of love with trackdays very quickly, and the very reason I'm getting a more civilised one next time.
That's ok, I seem to think less and less of you each time you post. You are rude, obtuse and offensive. And clearly have a complete inability to accept that not everyone likes the same thing as you.Honestly OP, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time driving a track car to/from tracks (most decent tracks are 2-3hr+ from Central London), if you can't tow then make sure you buy something which is suitable for the schlep because otherwise it will get old quickly.
It's all fine and well to spend £3k on the ultimate, hardcore, stripped, polybushed MX5 for the 5-6hrs you'll spend on track during the day. However, you don't want to find yourself then stuck in it for 2-3hrs on the return journey, when it's revving its nuts off at 80mph, the seat is making your backside numb, it's boiling/freezing, and the exhaust/road noise is giving you a headache.
That's a way to fall out of love with trackdays very quickly, and the very reason I'm getting a more civilised one next time.
OP, don't discount the MGF/TF (preferably the latter).
I wouldn't have considered one until I had a go round Thruxton in one, on a track absolutely not suited to it, with middling road tyres and minimal set up, it totally won me over. Cracking fun and not as lacking in speed as I was expecting.
Edit- apologies, missed the 'tintop' point. Still, if it would be adequately more comfortable than your MX5 then don't dismiss it.
I wouldn't have considered one until I had a go round Thruxton in one, on a track absolutely not suited to it, with middling road tyres and minimal set up, it totally won me over. Cracking fun and not as lacking in speed as I was expecting.
Edit- apologies, missed the 'tintop' point. Still, if it would be adequately more comfortable than your MX5 then don't dismiss it.
C70R said:
Honestly OP, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time driving a track car to/from tracks (most decent tracks are 2-3hr+ from Central London), if you can't tow then make sure you buy something which is suitable for the schlep because otherwise it will get old quickly.
It's all fine and well to spend £3k on the ultimate, hardcore, stripped, polybushed MX5 for the 5-6hrs you'll spend on track during the day. However, you don't want to find yourself then stuck in it for 2-3hrs on the return journey, when it's revving its nuts off at 80mph, the seat is making your backside numb, it's boiling/freezing, and the exhaust/road noise is giving you a headache.
That's a way to fall out of love with trackdays very quickly, and the very reason I'm getting a more civilised one next time.
That's the reason for this thread. It's all fine and well to spend £3k on the ultimate, hardcore, stripped, polybushed MX5 for the 5-6hrs you'll spend on track during the day. However, you don't want to find yourself then stuck in it for 2-3hrs on the return journey, when it's revving its nuts off at 80mph, the seat is making your backside numb, it's boiling/freezing, and the exhaust/road noise is giving you a headache.
That's a way to fall out of love with trackdays very quickly, and the very reason I'm getting a more civilised one next time.
The MX-5 I have and currently drive to and from Sprints is standard. But it's still very hot, very loud and not very comfortable.
Hence a tin top.
Also, something that's a little lost on here, is that this is for Sprints not Track Days. That's a big difference. As I cannot strip the car out, unless I then want to enter a different class, spend money on roll bars etc. I want a standard car and the regs require a standard car.
A lot of people don't get the REGULATIONS point and the different requirements once you start stripping the car out.
I'm in London, so cannot trailer. Any car needs to drive there and back.
Plan remains...MX-5 for next year. The year after maybe an RX8!
seiben said:
Sorry - missed this thread the first time around but I think you might have misunderstood this a bit? I don't know which series you will be running in, but based on my experience (which you reference earlier in this thread):
Thanks very much. That's made it much more appealing. I read about you spinning it and just thought, no way! - In the Javelin series there's a 1.5x multiplier on rotary engines, putting us in the 1800cc-2000cc group along with Clios, Civics and the like. The car is competitive in this group.
- The 'spinning the engine backwards' thing happened only once, when I spun the car at high speed and forgot to put my foot on the clutch. This threw an EML, which was the work of 10 seconds to remove with a ten quid OBD reader - no other issues. I have spun the RX8 many (many! ) times before and since, and it's always restarted and got back up to pace without a hiccup. I once did similar with an MR2 which really didn't want to restart afterwards, so there's nothing to be wary of with rotaries here AFAIK.
- We've never flooded it - just run the engine for a minute or two once you switch it on from cold, job's a good'un. Bear in mind during a sprint it will have 20+ hot starts during the day (plus a couple of cold starts in the morning and after lunch) and again this has never been an issue.
rossyl said:
C70R said:
Honestly OP, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time driving a track car to/from tracks (most decent tracks are 2-3hr+ from Central London), if you can't tow then make sure you buy something which is suitable for the schlep because otherwise it will get old quickly.
It's all fine and well to spend £3k on the ultimate, hardcore, stripped, polybushed MX5 for the 5-6hrs you'll spend on track during the day. However, you don't want to find yourself then stuck in it for 2-3hrs on the return journey, when it's revving its nuts off at 80mph, the seat is making your backside numb, it's boiling/freezing, and the exhaust/road noise is giving you a headache.
That's a way to fall out of love with trackdays very quickly, and the very reason I'm getting a more civilised one next time.
That's the reason for this thread. It's all fine and well to spend £3k on the ultimate, hardcore, stripped, polybushed MX5 for the 5-6hrs you'll spend on track during the day. However, you don't want to find yourself then stuck in it for 2-3hrs on the return journey, when it's revving its nuts off at 80mph, the seat is making your backside numb, it's boiling/freezing, and the exhaust/road noise is giving you a headache.
That's a way to fall out of love with trackdays very quickly, and the very reason I'm getting a more civilised one next time.
The MX-5 I have and currently drive to and from Sprints is standard. But it's still very hot, very loud and not very comfortable.
Hence a tin top.
Also, something that's a little lost on here, is that this is for Sprints not Track Days. That's a big difference. As I cannot strip the car out, unless I then want to enter a different class, spend money on roll bars etc. I want a standard car and the regs require a standard car.
A lot of people don't get the REGULATIONS point and the different requirements once you start stripping the car out.
I'm in London, so cannot trailer. Any car needs to drive there and back.
Plan remains...MX-5 for next year. The year after maybe an RX8!
If it absolutely must be RWD AND tin-top, then you've only really got the RX8 at this budget level unless you want to step up a class with something like the E36 328 (which probably wouldn't be all that competitive). If you can find a mk2 MR2 NA (Rev3 and newer) in budget, then that might provide an alternative that isn't often discussed.
C70R said:
If you can find a mk2 MR2 NA (Rev3 and newer) in budget, then that might provide an alternative that isn't often discussed.
I realise this is a sample of just one, but my RX8 co-owner ran a rev5 MR2 mk2 for a couple of years which had similar treatment (cage, stripped, sticky tyres, LSD etc). The RX8 is consistently quicker with the same driver - he was 6 seconds quicker around Croft, for example. Yes, I realise some if this will be down to driver improvements and such like, but he'd been sprinting the MR2 for a couple of years by that point and was very competitive in his class at the time.CanoeSniffer said:
OP, don't discount the MGF/TF (preferably the latter).
I wouldn't have considered one until I had a go round Thruxton in one, on a track absolutely not suited to it, with middling road tyres and minimal set up, it totally won me over. Cracking fun and not as lacking in speed as I was expecting.
Edit- apologies, missed the 'tintop' point. Still, if it would be adequately more comfortable than your MX5 then don't dismiss it.
Many/most late model F's have air con, hard tops available too. K-Series is a lovely engine to drive.I wouldn't have considered one until I had a go round Thruxton in one, on a track absolutely not suited to it, with middling road tyres and minimal set up, it totally won me over. Cracking fun and not as lacking in speed as I was expecting.
Edit- apologies, missed the 'tintop' point. Still, if it would be adequately more comfortable than your MX5 then don't dismiss it.
seiben said:
C70R said:
If you can find a mk2 MR2 NA (Rev3 and newer) in budget, then that might provide an alternative that isn't often discussed.
I realise this is a sample of just one, but my RX8 co-owner ran a rev5 MR2 mk2 for a couple of years which had similar treatment (cage, stripped, sticky tyres, LSD etc). The RX8 is consistently quicker with the same driver - he was 6 seconds quicker around Croft, for example. Yes, I realise some if this will be down to driver improvements and such like, but he'd been sprinting the MR2 for a couple of years by that point and was very competitive in his class at the time.300bhp/ton said:
CanoeSniffer said:
OP, don't discount the MGF/TF (preferably the latter).
I wouldn't have considered one until I had a go round Thruxton in one, on a track absolutely not suited to it, with middling road tyres and minimal set up, it totally won me over. Cracking fun and not as lacking in speed as I was expecting.
Edit- apologies, missed the 'tintop' point. Still, if it would be adequately more comfortable than your MX5 then don't dismiss it.
Many/most late model F's have air con, hard tops available too. K-Series is a lovely engine to drive.I wouldn't have considered one until I had a go round Thruxton in one, on a track absolutely not suited to it, with middling road tyres and minimal set up, it totally won me over. Cracking fun and not as lacking in speed as I was expecting.
Edit- apologies, missed the 'tintop' point. Still, if it would be adequately more comfortable than your MX5 then don't dismiss it.
Jesus. The OP has said it about 20 times.
Not sure if you want to stay modern but i have a track prepped 924S and it's alot of fun. Clearly not as quick as a more modern 328i etc but they are light and extremely well balanced, put some track rubber on them and they handle very well and parts are not expensive at all to run, consumables are no more expensive than any other car, stock discs work perfectly due to the weight especially with some proper pads in them.
JB! said:
I spent slightly over OPs budget on an E36 328i.
Parts are cheap and plentiful, easy to work on to boot.
First day in it is Bedford 5th November
If you're sprinting, prepared to be VERY slow. The 328 puts you in with 2WD turbo/supercharged cars, which are probably going to be a lot quicker lb-for-lb.Parts are cheap and plentiful, easy to work on to boot.
First day in it is Bedford 5th November
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