Where are all the AWD and Type R's?
Discussion
Hi.
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 6 GSR at Brands Hatch (Indy) by Adam Lister, on Flickr
My car isn't heavily modified, has bolts ons, decent Ohlins suspension, and mapped by someone who knows what they're doing for about 350BHP. And yet, I am and it is, quite happy to smash round Brands doing in the mid 50's all day.
It has left me stranded by the side of the road twice, once when the rear diff shat its pants, and once when the crank pulley collapsed.
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 6 GSR at Brands Hatch (Indy) by Adam Lister, on Flickr
framerateuk said:
4WD is a generally very expensive way to go fast.
Not just in how much the likes of Scoobys and Evos cost to make big power, but they're also hard on brakes, tyres and fuel.
Mine isn't heavy on anything really, except overall maintenance. I've done three trackdays on a set of R888R's and they've still got plenty of life left. I'm getting plenty of life out of my pads; but yes, fuel is expensive. It does about 6 MPG on track, but who's counting? Not just in how much the likes of Scoobys and Evos cost to make big power, but they're also hard on brakes, tyres and fuel.
My car isn't heavily modified, has bolts ons, decent Ohlins suspension, and mapped by someone who knows what they're doing for about 350BHP. And yet, I am and it is, quite happy to smash round Brands doing in the mid 50's all day.
It has left me stranded by the side of the road twice, once when the rear diff shat its pants, and once when the crank pulley collapsed.
caelite said:
Aye, too be fair I believe a scrapyard trip was made by the guys in question, I'll admit I was basing the OEM part pricing opinion from my own experiences after owning a Forester as a daily. Mine was completely stock and driven fairly sedately on the road and I still had all sorts of issues. Still, the part pricing at scooby is exceptional, I'd say they are worse than the Germans for their gouging.
For me it was a half shaft, clutch pull fork (went not long after I changed the clutch, nightmare) head gasket, and I suspect a front diff (I sold it when the HG began to go), too me that is too many things to go at once in a year and 10k miles of ownership. Albeit I will admit on a 120k mile car.
My cousin who ran a fairly low mile Subaru 2000 turbo as a track car for years replaced gearbox bearings, a propshaft, had fairly frequent clutch changes (could put this down to his particular driving style though to be fair), Had all sorts of issues with his front tracking needing adjusted after every track day. Ultimately his blew up rather spectacularly after running hot, dropped about 10L of various fluids and a con rod on to the final hairpin at knockhill. He got short of it after that and replaced it with an S2000, which he still abuses to this day, bar normal maintenance has wanted for nothing. I drove this Subaru often, to be honest I did enjoy driving it, especially at the time. Yes it was a bit numb and the handling pales a bit compared to lighter compatriots, but the way it just squats down and throws you back in your seat on corner exits is a bit intoxicating, it is a blunt instrument which plays well in the hands of less experienced drivers. (as we both where at the time being 18/19).
A friend of mine also ran a newer WRX. It had a lot of work done to it, but it did genuinely seemed at one point every vaguely hard launch he did would result in something vital twisting, snapping or falling off. I believe he was sitting at about 350bhp, which can easily be blamed for the faults, but at the same time, it is hardly stellar numbers. He now tracks a 250hp Seat Ibiza diesel.
Ultimately they are a b
h to work on and require a lot of babying, also suffer from the same tyre/brake cost issues as many more modern (heavy) hatches do. Still a lot of people run them as they can be fun in their own way. Personally I don't think I'd buy another, Subarus where my dream car as a kid, growing up in the 90s I had a 22B poster on my wall. But after my own and my friends ownership experiences they just aren't for me.
Parts prices at the dealer are ridiculous. They quoted me £400 PER BRAKE DISC for a pair of rear Brembo discs for my 2012 WRX STI. I bought the exact same discs from GSF for £85 the pair. For me it was a half shaft, clutch pull fork (went not long after I changed the clutch, nightmare
) head gasket, and I suspect a front diff (I sold it when the HG began to go), too me that is too many things to go at once in a year and 10k miles of ownership. Albeit I will admit on a 120k mile car.My cousin who ran a fairly low mile Subaru 2000 turbo as a track car for years replaced gearbox bearings, a propshaft, had fairly frequent clutch changes (could put this down to his particular driving style though to be fair), Had all sorts of issues with his front tracking needing adjusted after every track day. Ultimately his blew up rather spectacularly after running hot, dropped about 10L of various fluids and a con rod on to the final hairpin at knockhill. He got short of it after that and replaced it with an S2000, which he still abuses to this day, bar normal maintenance has wanted for nothing. I drove this Subaru often, to be honest I did enjoy driving it, especially at the time. Yes it was a bit numb and the handling pales a bit compared to lighter compatriots, but the way it just squats down and throws you back in your seat on corner exits is a bit intoxicating, it is a blunt instrument which plays well in the hands of less experienced drivers. (as we both where at the time being 18/19).
A friend of mine also ran a newer WRX. It had a lot of work done to it, but it did genuinely seemed at one point every vaguely hard launch he did would result in something vital twisting, snapping or falling off. I believe he was sitting at about 350bhp, which can easily be blamed for the faults, but at the same time, it is hardly stellar numbers. He now tracks a 250hp Seat Ibiza diesel.
Ultimately they are a b
h to work on and require a lot of babying, also suffer from the same tyre/brake cost issues as many more modern (heavy) hatches do. Still a lot of people run them as they can be fun in their own way. Personally I don't think I'd buy another, Subarus where my dream car as a kid, growing up in the 90s I had a 22B poster on my wall. But after my own and my friends ownership experiences they just aren't for me. adam. said:
Mine isn't heavy on anything really, except overall maintenance. I've done three trackdays on a set of R888R's and they've still got plenty of life left. I'm getting plenty of life out of my pads; but yes, fuel is expensive. It does about 6 MPG on track, but who's counting?
My car isn't heavily modified, has bolts ons, decent Ohlins suspension, and mapped by someone who knows what they're doing for about 350BHP. And yet, I am and it is, quite happy to smash round Brands doing in the mid 50's all day.
It has left me stranded by the side of the road twice, once when the rear diff shat its pants, and once when the crank pulley collapsed.
My friends Evo VI GSR did the same, pulled out of his driveway and the outer pulley de-bonded and rolled off down the road! Fortunately at idle, and nothing else damaged/affected. I think he was saying there's potential for it to bounce up into the cambelt if you're really unlucky or do something similarly nasty?My car isn't heavily modified, has bolts ons, decent Ohlins suspension, and mapped by someone who knows what they're doing for about 350BHP. And yet, I am and it is, quite happy to smash round Brands doing in the mid 50's all day.
It has left me stranded by the side of the road twice, once when the rear diff shat its pants, and once when the crank pulley collapsed.
Munter said:
I suspect the word contemporary was implied. All else being equal RWD is felt to be best for trackdays. All else is not always equal though...
Indeed all else being equal big brakes are better than small. All things being equal, sporty suspension is better. All things being equal more power is better. All things are not equal though.As much as it was a t**tish post, it's quite succinct, and not *that* far off the truth!
The 'reduction to absurdity' approach you took with the SD1 could equally be taken in any direction, e.g. to say a range rover is not better than a caterham on track. Of course if you go far enough, the drive configuration is not the defining feature.
However the OP's question was very much about that, and isn't it interesting that the 4wd cars that have been heralded as good track cars are the ones that bias considerably towards rear, or in the case of the GTR's bias to rear AND have massive power.. for most more 'normal' cars, it's arguable that 4wd is unnecessary at best.
The 'reduction to absurdity' approach you took with the SD1 could equally be taken in any direction, e.g. to say a range rover is not better than a caterham on track. Of course if you go far enough, the drive configuration is not the defining feature.
However the OP's question was very much about that, and isn't it interesting that the 4wd cars that have been heralded as good track cars are the ones that bias considerably towards rear, or in the case of the GTR's bias to rear AND have massive power.. for most more 'normal' cars, it's arguable that 4wd is unnecessary at best.
My point was obviously that driven wheels is not an overall defining thing. A friend of mine has a Cayman S. Great car but as my R26 manages to keep with him on track whilst still being great fun he bought an R26 to strip out as a track car. The poor thing was gutted over the weekend and loaded into the back of his Disco. You can just about see the Cayman in the garage.
Edited by Ahbefive on Thursday 23 August 18:31
Facian said:
My friends Evo VI GSR did the same, pulled out of his driveway and the outer pulley de-bonded and rolled off down the road! Fortunately at idle, and nothing else damaged/affected. I think he was saying there's potential for it to bounce up into the cambelt if you're really unlucky or do something similarly nasty?
Mine did it on a quiet dual carriageway in the top of 4th at X mph, ~7000RPM. Somehow, miraculously, it didn't take the cambelt or anything else with it. It did however, fall out the back of car, bounce along the road and as I was slowing down after the 'clunk' and sudden battery light, it gave me a lovely dent in my boot.
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff