fastest track day cars
Discussion
quote:
I'd put my money on a GT2 on most circuits in the UK. Goodwood is indeed a power curcuit and the Caterfields wouldn't stand a chance......AndrewD?
>> Edited by Lonman on Wednesday 18th September 17:14
Is that you driving the GT2 at Folembray?
I have seen the pics and video, you are a nutter!
sideways satan I think was mentioned, I am inclined to agree with them, although I wouldnt mind a ride when you race round a track
What did your passenger think?
GT2 - great car (have a slower one on order!)... didn't want to open up the 'one car faster than another' debate. 99% of the time I'd rather be in a GT2! - But you may want to check out the lap times round the ring: road legal R500 v GT2 ... and that's a deal faster than Goodwood! :-)
Steve
>> Edited by getcarter on Wednesday 18th September 17:27
Steve
>> Edited by getcarter on Wednesday 18th September 17:27
On a "power circuit", i.e. one with reasonably long straight bits I'd think the GT2 would have it. At Folembray, Rob's was outrunning my Superlight R on the straights and I couldn't gain enough in the corners to make it up. A very impressive piece of kit (and well driven, Rob). Love to see how the story would play at somewhere more twisty though.
I think the R500 does the 'Ring in around 8mins, where as the GT2 is 7'45 secs......
Not sure about Adam, but this is what my passanger said when he came with me for a lap of the 'Ring earlier this year....
"Well, I attended the bmwm5.com meeting at the Nürburgring this weekend. Lonman was there as well.
I know that my car can pull about one g in corners, so it isn't that much of a difference to the 1.2gs the GT2 is capable of. My car has 410 hp, the GT2 has 460. Not much difference either. But step into it and you will notice that the GT2 also weighs about half a ton less than mine and that the turbochargers must have been specially selected. I guess standard ones would quickly feel dizzy, like you would after inflating an airbed.
Not long ago I have called the McLaren F1 a controlled explosion on wheels. But it is not, the Porsche GT2 already is. I also know now what "Nordschleife-setup" means. For the GT2 it is a large number of invisible titanium anchors which are trown at the nearest tree to haul the car around corners.
The M-suspension on my 8 series felt in comparison to the GT2's like that of a 2CV or, because it has similar cornering capabilities, that of a hot-air balloon.
Most of the time I drive myself, and if not then there are people at the helm who are frequently overtaken by continental drift. So I was quite unprepared.
There are ...a hundred and sixtysomething corners on the Nordschleife and in a GT2 at full moo it means you can die just as often. Make the slightest mistake and it will take them days to find the scattered remains of your body in the woods.
But it is awesome how secure you feel if the driver knows his job. And, I must say, Lonman does. Quite a bit. Drive like your hair is on fire in a Vectra and nothing will happen. Do it in a GT2 and you will end up upside down and on fire.
We were going even faster.
Afterwards, my body was in a state of shock. The g-forces must have made it believe it got into something like a plane crash in the mountains where then cabin tumbles down a steep cliff for nine minutes straight.
My hands and feet went numb because my body was withdrawing all the blood to keep the vital organs alive. And I do like rollercoasters and everything that moves quickly into all sorts of directions. But nothing up to now has prepared me for that ride. It was an absolutely hilarious experience!
There is nothing on earth that can match a lap on the Nordschleife in a Porsche GT2. Except of course two laps in a GT2. Finally in the evening, and still thrilled, I waited for the right winds to drive home in my V12 hot-air balloon. D*mn!
...Mike
P.S.: Please excuse me for not reporting from the Alpina meeting, but the Lonman-GT2-experience has made everything else utterly insignificant"
__________________
>> Edited by Lonman on Wednesday 18th September 19:11
Not sure about Adam, but this is what my passanger said when he came with me for a lap of the 'Ring earlier this year....
"Well, I attended the bmwm5.com meeting at the Nürburgring this weekend. Lonman was there as well.
I know that my car can pull about one g in corners, so it isn't that much of a difference to the 1.2gs the GT2 is capable of. My car has 410 hp, the GT2 has 460. Not much difference either. But step into it and you will notice that the GT2 also weighs about half a ton less than mine and that the turbochargers must have been specially selected. I guess standard ones would quickly feel dizzy, like you would after inflating an airbed.
Not long ago I have called the McLaren F1 a controlled explosion on wheels. But it is not, the Porsche GT2 already is. I also know now what "Nordschleife-setup" means. For the GT2 it is a large number of invisible titanium anchors which are trown at the nearest tree to haul the car around corners.
The M-suspension on my 8 series felt in comparison to the GT2's like that of a 2CV or, because it has similar cornering capabilities, that of a hot-air balloon.
Most of the time I drive myself, and if not then there are people at the helm who are frequently overtaken by continental drift. So I was quite unprepared.
There are ...a hundred and sixtysomething corners on the Nordschleife and in a GT2 at full moo it means you can die just as often. Make the slightest mistake and it will take them days to find the scattered remains of your body in the woods.
But it is awesome how secure you feel if the driver knows his job. And, I must say, Lonman does. Quite a bit. Drive like your hair is on fire in a Vectra and nothing will happen. Do it in a GT2 and you will end up upside down and on fire.
We were going even faster.
Afterwards, my body was in a state of shock. The g-forces must have made it believe it got into something like a plane crash in the mountains where then cabin tumbles down a steep cliff for nine minutes straight.
My hands and feet went numb because my body was withdrawing all the blood to keep the vital organs alive. And I do like rollercoasters and everything that moves quickly into all sorts of directions. But nothing up to now has prepared me for that ride. It was an absolutely hilarious experience!
There is nothing on earth that can match a lap on the Nordschleife in a Porsche GT2. Except of course two laps in a GT2. Finally in the evening, and still thrilled, I waited for the right winds to drive home in my V12 hot-air balloon. D*mn!
...Mike
P.S.: Please excuse me for not reporting from the Alpina meeting, but the Lonman-GT2-experience has made everything else utterly insignificant"
__________________
>> Edited by Lonman on Wednesday 18th September 19:11
Lonman... fab post and obviously a great lap (wish I could have been there!)
I bow to your superior knowledege on lap times... I was taking Nearn's Caterham R500 times v Porsche from this page>>
www.rs4.org/rs4/rs4-fearture/performance/ring-times/ring-times.htm (7.55 in Caterham - 7.56 in Porsche)
Who on earth has done it in 7.45 in a road car? That's a blinding time. Excellent work that man!
I bow to your superior knowledege on lap times... I was taking Nearn's Caterham R500 times v Porsche from this page>>
www.rs4.org/rs4/rs4-fearture/performance/ring-times/ring-times.htm (7.55 in Caterham - 7.56 in Porsche)
Who on earth has done it in 7.45 in a road car? That's a blinding time. Excellent work that man!
Back to the original question of "Caterfields" vs High powered sports cars (TVR,Porsche,Ferrari,BMW-M etc)on Track Days.
My third ever track day finished at 5.00pm today with Easytrack at Oulton Park (great circuit and V impressed with ET'S organisation BTW)threrefore my experience is rather limited.
The Caterfields seemed to be much quicker through corners than the big sports cars (not including full on slick shod competition cars!)and any straight line performance defecit in the less powerfull versions seemed to be quickly made up at the next corner.
Now, my track "experience" is limited to the above mentioned runs round Oulton in the Chimaera.
And ive never driver a Caterfield on road or track,but im led to believe that they handle like Go Kart's - i.e immensley "seat of the pants" responsive and confidence inspiring.
Back to today @ Oulton. I saw about seven or eight cars spin/being towed back to paddock post spin. At least five of these were caterfields !.
Maybe they handle so well and are so quick,that the driver is lulled into a sense of invincabilty which is not necessarily the case ?.
Im only a novice and drive a car that certainly does'nt inspire any feelings of invincability
(more like fear,respect,fear!)on the track.
To conclude -in my V limited experience - the "Caterfield" genre seem to be a much quicker way of getting round youre chosen track than the Tiv,Porsche,Ferrari road based sports car.
(Unless of course you drive said Caterfield backwards over the grass :wink.
My third ever track day finished at 5.00pm today with Easytrack at Oulton Park (great circuit and V impressed with ET'S organisation BTW)threrefore my experience is rather limited.
The Caterfields seemed to be much quicker through corners than the big sports cars (not including full on slick shod competition cars!)and any straight line performance defecit in the less powerfull versions seemed to be quickly made up at the next corner.
Now, my track "experience" is limited to the above mentioned runs round Oulton in the Chimaera.
And ive never driver a Caterfield on road or track,but im led to believe that they handle like Go Kart's - i.e immensley "seat of the pants" responsive and confidence inspiring.
Back to today @ Oulton. I saw about seven or eight cars spin/being towed back to paddock post spin. At least five of these were caterfields !.
Maybe they handle so well and are so quick,that the driver is lulled into a sense of invincabilty which is not necessarily the case ?.
Im only a novice and drive a car that certainly does'nt inspire any feelings of invincability
(more like fear,respect,fear!)on the track.
To conclude -in my V limited experience - the "Caterfield" genre seem to be a much quicker way of getting round youre chosen track than the Tiv,Porsche,Ferrari road based sports car.
(Unless of course you drive said Caterfield backwards over the grass :wink
.quote:
Another question along similar lines, how do Ultimas fair round tracks? They certainly have the stats to put on a good show... anyone seen it/done it care to share?
It is all driver skill related.
I don't know if Donnington suits Ultimas but I did my first Ultima track day there last weekend (3rd track day ever) and was only caught by better drivers who were going round the twisties better than me.
I was just slowing down and waving them past and not trying to keep with them or re take them on the straights.
Paid a lot for this pleasure though as they are bloody expensive.
I also *think* the GT2 which lapped the Ring in 7.45 was the Gembella 600bhp "special" wasn't it? Not the standard one.
I assume the ultimate answer here is an ex-F1 car (the ones with the turbos and the really wide slicks).
For the "normal" person, a Radical SR3 would be far quicker than GT2 or Caterham R500. Very tempted...
I assume the ultimate answer here is an ex-F1 car (the ones with the turbos and the really wide slicks).
For the "normal" person, a Radical SR3 would be far quicker than GT2 or Caterham R500. Very tempted...
quote:
Afterwards, my body was in a state of shock. The g-forces must have made it believe it got into something like a plane crash in the mountains where then cabin tumbles down a steep cliff for nine minutes straight.
My hands and feet went numb because my body was withdrawing all the blood to keep the vital organs alive. And I do like rollercoasters and everything that moves quickly into all sorts of directions. But nothing up to now has prepared me for that ride. It was an absolutely hilarious experience!
_________________
Imagine doing the nurburg 24hr then! Normally a total of 6 hours of driving each driver in stints of upto 1 and a half hours!
quote:
It is all driver skill related.
I don't know if Donnington suits Ultimas but I did my first Ultima track day there last weekend (3rd track day ever) and was only caught by better drivers who were going round the twisties better than me.
I was just slowing down and waving them past and not trying to keep with them or re take them on the straights.
Paid a lot for this pleasure though as they are bloody expensive.
So would you recommend one as a track day tool...... or are there better value cars around that give the same thrill...???
quote:
I also *think* the GT2 which lapped the Ring in 7.45 was the Gembella 600bhp "special" wasn't it? Not the standard one.
....and, isn't the Ring one of the ultimate power circuits with that huge main straight. Don't forget even an R500 has a top speed of only 150mph or so. A GT2 will be hitting 200mph along the straight.
I reckon on the vast majorit of circuits an R500 would be quicker than the GT2 and any other true production car for that matter (put then an R500 is hardly a true road car, unlike the GT2).
Come to think of it I've forgotten what this thread was originally about but assuming we're talking about the best (fun) trackday car then read the recent trackday car of the year reviews. The R300 won, beating the SR3 in the process. It's not just about outright speed, it's a compromise of many different parameters, one of which (for me) is cost, and here the Caterham does have an advantage over a GT2, GT3 or Mac F1
www.nurburgring.org.uk/laptimes.html A good and informative site.
7'46 in a standard unmodified 2001 GT2....
>> Edited by Lonman on Thursday 19th September 10:24
7'46 in a standard unmodified 2001 GT2....
>> Edited by Lonman on Thursday 19th September 10:24
As per my conversation with AndrewD, on Saturday night after Folembray, it depends what your definition of "fun" is. To me just as much fun can be had in a 90bhp Vx powered Academy Caterham as a R500.
IMHO fun isn't about how fast the car can go down the straights it's about enjoying yourself in whatever car you happen to be in and extracting the most out of the package.
Andy
BookaTrack.com
IMHO fun isn't about how fast the car can go down the straights it's about enjoying yourself in whatever car you happen to be in and extracting the most out of the package.
Andy
BookaTrack.com
quote:Spot on Andy! Witness the grin on Rich's face having piloted the Folembray Taxi (with slush box and in economy mode
IMHO fun isn't about how fast the car can go down the straights it's about enjoying yourself in whatever car you happen to be in and extracting the most out of the package.
).Totally agree with you Andy. I suspect Rob, like myself, gets a good degree of the "fun" through going as fast as possible. My kicks in particular aren't so much straight line speed but corners. I *am* thinking about the "dark side" though. Where can I get a set of 6 inch wheels and tyres then? (hint hint please)
Email me for details on the wheels that MikeE was interested in but defected to George Polley !!! 
SR3s are blindingly quick I agree, but after seeing them at quite a few of our days now I wonder if they are actually a little "too" quick for trackdays. I think that you'd actually get very frustrated with other slower drivers on track as the speed differentials are huge. Imagine at an open pitlane day.. you would be lapping slower cars every couple of laps. I know that when we were at Silverstone and Richard Ince was there in his that it was quite breathtaking the way that you could glance in your mirror as you were going down the straights for it to be empty and then a second or two later it was full of Radical !
Andy
BookaTrack
SR3s are blindingly quick I agree, but after seeing them at quite a few of our days now I wonder if they are actually a little "too" quick for trackdays. I think that you'd actually get very frustrated with other slower drivers on track as the speed differentials are huge. Imagine at an open pitlane day.. you would be lapping slower cars every couple of laps. I know that when we were at Silverstone and Richard Ince was there in his that it was quite breathtaking the way that you could glance in your mirror as you were going down the straights for it to be empty and then a second or two later it was full of Radical !
Andy
BookaTrack
quote:
Spot on Andy! Witness the grin on Rich's face having piloted the Folembray Taxi (with slush box and in economy mode
Aww I only did 3 laps in economy... (And yes I did spin it!!!) Certainly was fun to hustle round the circuit. Just have to find one fitted the with GT-2 smokescreen option. Anyone know if AMG can fit that?
>> Edited by mr_tony on Thursday 19th September 11:30
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