alternative to rx8 for track toy
Discussion
rallycross said:
daveco said:
e46m3c said:
Can an mr2 be used on drift days? I doubt it has enough power?
Absolutely. The more technical the track the more they will keep up with much more powerful metal.Strip one out and in 1.8 guise, you have a very rapid 146hp, 950kg track car.
A mk3 MX-5 2.0 would be my choice if available in budget.
e30m3Mark said:
Any six pot E36 or E46 BMW.
Obviously you'd want a diff but bother of the above can be bough cheaply.
BMW 325ti are great fun and far better drivers than may people realise, hence their having a strong following.
This one is well under budget so you could get some decent suspension or a diff.
I run an e36 328 that was bought for 1K fully stripped and with a race seat and harness. Three years later it has been fully rebuilt (modified) from the ground up and stands in at 8-10K spend if cage/welding/painting of cage is factored in and thats with doing the majority of the spannering, so mostly parts costs barring special cases lile welding a cage and rebuilding a diff. So I think I can talk from experience. Obviously you'd want a diff but bother of the above can be bough cheaply.
BMW 325ti are great fun and far better drivers than may people realise, hence their having a strong following.
This one is well under budget so you could get some decent suspension or a diff.
Firstly, imo your 3K budget for a track car is pretty bottom of the barrell at best. Starting from the ground up with a road car like me will cost you way more than you think and I would say it is a fools economy based on my experience. In short your 3K will buy far far more in terms of value and spec for the purpose of track abuse if you aim to buy someone else's track prepped car, honestly its no contest. Typically (obviously some due diligence required) you would get 6K+ worth of value for spending 3K, and managing for that point on as required in terms of maintenance upgrades. Typically this will buy you a car with coilovers, maybe caged, probably new bushes/poly/solid combination of, LSD, engine/exhaust mods, etc.
For balance starting from scratch can be expensive, yes you can buy used parts to reduce cost but with that the condition is unknown, or likely tired, and you still have to fit it and/or refurbish it. The cost of a rebuilt LSD cluster with 40% lock for the type 188 case bmw platef LSD was £250 quid from the states + import + vat. The cost of a full set of consumable parts using half decent bearings (cant recall name now but SKF equivalents at 60% of the SKF cost) still came in at around £250ish quid!!! Add another £400 quid for the labour to do it right (lacking the tools to do that properly) and all in with the purchase of a spare type 188 open diff and a 3.23 ratio pinion and ring gear, the total was north of 1K. Yes I went and saw 2 M3 LSD's for sale at £300+ and those looked past their best, had the wrong ratio and would potentially still need a rebuild sooner than later.......the cage cost was over 1500 quid for parts and 1750 quid for fabricating and fitting a new windscreen. Another £600 for paint.......basically you get the idea, not even touching bushes, engine water system brakes and other necessary upgrades once you start treating trackdays more seriously and find the limit of the package you got.
Smart money is on buying used prepped and taking it from there. Just making sure it isnt rusted or harbouring a major or catastrophic fault. Apart from obvious lemons though, most used are better fettled cars than road cars imo!!!
BMW e36 Saloon/Compact or e46 Compact are very capable, but do need a fair investment to handle and be fun on the limit. They are not cheap and not light imo. You can land a pretty good e36 328i prepped track car, but need mire budget to progress from there, and brakes and fuel consumables are in the high side.
With your budget I would look for MX5 NA/NB/NC that isn't rotten and has been prepped and used for trackdays. Best value budget friendly on consumables and most importanly reliable, whi wants to spend time during a track day under the bonnet or chassis!!!
Trust me, anything driven well will be punching above it weight, and thats half the fun hassling more powerful cars over a lap, or 3, or more until eventually they overheat brakes or admit defeat or both. Never gets old even if they do dissaper on the straights. I would aim ideally for 200HP/ton, but at 175hp/ton my car currently hassles anything up to 300HP/ton that isn't driven in the limit.
An MX5 with close to 175hp/ton will be similarly competitive with the right tyres and half decent suspension and mechanical condition. 200+/ton can give much more powerful cars a run for their money.
One thing that is iften overlooked however is the tool between the wheel and pedals! Sharoening that one can give the biggest gains all else being equal, so imo the more practice the better. Keeping up will come with practice, then the straigh line warriors will just be an amusement lol.
My subjective view of course.
Hum
Edited by Humour on Thursday 24th January 22:02
I'd suggest an MX5 (stock PH answer I know!) but try to find one has been turbo or supercharged - these sell 2nd hand for a lot less than the cost of the car + conversion and you might find a ratty one for £2k which you could work on / improve between trackdays. Even if it needs some welding, this costs little compared with boosting a solid car.
I used to do a few trackdays in a turbo'd MX5 and loved the fact the the tyres and brake pads are fairly cheap - this makes a big difference. Roll protection, harnesses etc can all be done well cheaply and easily. They're also a very tuneable car in turbo form.
I used to do a few trackdays in a turbo'd MX5 and loved the fact the the tyres and brake pads are fairly cheap - this makes a big difference. Roll protection, harnesses etc can all be done well cheaply and easily. They're also a very tuneable car in turbo form.
Double your budget and you can get a 2.0 Mk3 MX5 with most of the bits already fitted, I paid £6k for mine, came fitted with Miester R coilovers, uprated anti-roll bars, droplinks and a BBR supercharger conversion mapped to 255/210 at the wheels. If you can afford it, believe me, they are great fun!!
EN9I3160 by Opentrack Track Days, on Flickr
EN9I3160 by Opentrack Track Days, on Flickrkin quick said:
Double your budget and you can get a 2.0 Mk3 MX5 with most of the bits already fitted, I paid £6k for mine, came fitted with Miester R coilovers, uprated anti-roll bars, droplinks and a BBR supercharger conversion mapped to 255/210 at the wheels. If you can afford it, believe me, they are great fun!!
EN9I3160 by Opentrack Track Days, on Flickr
This is the way to go I think. Where is best to look for them?EN9I3160 by Opentrack Track Days, on FlickrYours looks and sounds perfect.
e46m3c said:
This is the way to go I think. Where is best to look for them?
Yours looks and sounds perfect.
I found mine on one of the many MX5 Facebook pages, they come up for sale every now and again, the turbo charged ones are a bit more popular and are a bit easier to control the heat on track.Yours looks and sounds perfect.
kin quick said:
I found mine on one of the many MX5 Facebook pages, they come up for sale every now and again, the turbo charged ones are a bit more popular and are a bit easier to control the heat on track.
Yours was a bargain, I was on the hunt for a boosted NC for a while & none were priced as yours, all far higher, if I'd have spotted it I'd prob have bought. Is odd when na & nc boosted are a fraction of the price.
Is a cheap sc NC about at the mo but has some rubbish electric supercharger! Wtf!
iguana said:
Yours was a bargain, I was on the hunt for a boosted NC for a while & none were priced as yours, all far higher, if I'd have spotted it I'd prob have bought.
Is odd when na & nc boosted are a fraction of the price.
Is a cheap sc NC about at the mo but has some rubbish electric supercharger! Wtf!
I was looking for a 3.0 Z4 at the time hence I didn't actually realise how good a deal it was as I wasn't aware of the prices, I'm really chuffed with it, came with a load of spares and it's still only covered 24k miles.Is odd when na & nc boosted are a fraction of the price.
Is a cheap sc NC about at the mo but has some rubbish electric supercharger! Wtf!
Electric supercharger, what's that about?!
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I think this one has come down in price a bit. Anyone got a gauge in if it’s well priced? Strong money for an 8 yr old MX-5?
I think this one has come down in price a bit. Anyone got a gauge in if it’s well priced? Strong money for an 8 yr old MX-5?
kin quick said:
Double your budget and you can get a 2.0 Mk3 MX5 with most of the bits already fitted, I paid £6k for mine, came fitted with Miester R coilovers, uprated anti-roll bars, droplinks and a BBR supercharger conversion mapped to 255/210 at the wheels. If you can afford it, believe me, they are great fun!!
EN9I3160 by Opentrack Track Days, on Flickr
Do you mind telling us more about this? EN9I3160 by Opentrack Track Days, on FlickrAny issues on track etc with the supercharger?
e46m3c said:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I think this one has come down in price a bit. Anyone got a gauge in if it’s well priced? Strong money for an 8 yr old MX-5?
Personally I buy on condition, age and mileage do not concern me much provided there is evidence of regular servicing etc.I think this one has come down in price a bit. Anyone got a gauge in if it’s well priced? Strong money for an 8 yr old MX-5?
Mk3.5's are in the 7K standard, admittedly on average with 20K less miles. Given this is a BBR conversion it will and should hold a premium even come time to sell, so provided no hidden horrors underneath (my biggest worry about any MX5) then I would say its a fair price, and I have not seen a Cosworth BBR for sale yet whilst looking over 2+yrs so would bet its quite rare spec.
Not my fav colour and not a fan of the bling in the back but that is fixable.
git-r said:
kin quick said:
Double your budget and you can get a 2.0 Mk3 MX5 with most of the bits already fitted, I paid £6k for mine, came fitted with Miester R coilovers, uprated anti-roll bars, droplinks and a BBR supercharger conversion mapped to 255/210 at the wheels. If you can afford it, believe me, they are great fun!!
EN9I3160 by Opentrack Track Days, on Flickr
Do you mind telling us more about this? EN9I3160 by Opentrack Track Days, on FlickrAny issues on track etc with the supercharger?
I got the car last summer for £6k, came with a load of spares including a 2nd set of wheels, I was looking for a 3.0 Z4 at the time so took a punt on this instead as it looked a good deal.
It's a 2.0 NC1 sport so has the 6-speed and lsd, fitted with a full exhaust with sports cat, BBR Cosworth supercharger with a slightly smaller pully, I got Nick at Skuzzle to map it and it made 255bhp and 210ft of torque at the wheels so around 300/250 at the crank, it weighs around 1100kg so goes pretty well yet is plenty comfortable for the road as has heated leather, leccy windows, central locking etc..
From what I've been told and experienced with the Impreza, the turbo equivalent with similar power feels faster due to the normal turbo traits of slight lag and then coming on full boost with a spikey power delivery, the supercharger feels more like a bigger engine under the bonnet with a smooth power delivery, both cars should be similar acceleration but do it in different ways.
There's loads of information on Miata.net, due to this particular supercharger being bolted to the engine it can get quite hot internally and there's not much you can do to reduce it, some people use water injection, a second water pump for the heat exchanger (charge cooler) and various vents and scoops but it only masks the problem for so long and seems an expensive way round a problem that can't really be fixed. It shouldn't damage anything, it just reduces the power slightly but I haven't had any issues so far, keeping track sessions to around 10-15mins and it should be fine.
There's a Rotrex supercharger kit that fits similar to a turbo, it's not bolted directly to the engine so is less susceptible to heat.
I've only used it on two trackdays so far, one at Snetterton and Monday just gone at Bedford, both days were fairly chilly and I didn't notice any issues with heat or loss of power even after staying out for around 20minutes.
I've got an E46 M3 at home yet I find myself driving the Mx5 all the time, it's so much fun!
There's loads of parts you can get for them, the standard brake callipers are supposed to be good enough for racing with decent pads and fluid, Miester R coilovers seem to be the favourite along with some RX8 anti-roll bars, decent tyres and away you go!
The NC2 or MK3.5 has a slightly stronger engine due to upgraded piston design but the NC1 like mine isn't exactly weak, it's a Mazda modified 2.0 Ford Duratec.
The main thing to look for is rust, as with all Mx5's, mines pretty clean luckily so I'll be getting it under sealed at some point.
I'm doing an evening trackday at Brands on the 10th April with Opentrack, your more than welcome to have a look if your free!
This one looks good but again probably too high in price
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Any idea if 6ft4 people will fit in this. Especially with a lid on.
I’m think for 9ish k I could get z4mr or 987 s instead.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Any idea if 6ft4 people will fit in this. Especially with a lid on.
I’m think for 9ish k I could get z4mr or 987 s instead.
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