First track day car suggestions
Discussion
martin12345 said:
VX220
Nicer than an Elise - just a "rubbish" badge. 2.2l engine is more tractable than the 1.8 in Elise's
Not sure about that??? elises tend to be faster and the vx tends to understeer with OE wheels... and the gearbox breather spits and the abs for the cavalier is not great...Nicer than an Elise - just a "rubbish" badge. 2.2l engine is more tractable than the 1.8 in Elise's
Don't get me wrong, I like the VX and think that are good option but they do need some work to be good on track... like any basic car...
If the OP is really committed, get a retired road legal race car (mx5/mr2/mgf/mgzr etc... ) is also a good option as the car should need servicing to be ok on track while anything else will be to be modded accordingly.
It doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's easy to work on, cheap to repair and plentiful for parts!
Speaking from personal experience, you can have something awesome and left-field, but there's no point paying for a trackday and sitting in the pit lane, watching all the E36's and Clios go round lap after lap! My vote goes for the EP3 Type R/Megane RS/Caterham etc - in increasing budget order!
Or just take a brave pill and drive the Ferrari
Speaking from personal experience, you can have something awesome and left-field, but there's no point paying for a trackday and sitting in the pit lane, watching all the E36's and Clios go round lap after lap! My vote goes for the EP3 Type R/Megane RS/Caterham etc - in increasing budget order!
Or just take a brave pill and drive the Ferrari
Another vote for the E36, I have had 3 of them and would not use anything else.
325 or 328 have the power and for the track the only addition to your list would be a set of decent coilers such as HSD mono pros.
Also preventative maintenance on the cooling is cheap and easy, metal thermostat housing/ metal water pump/ clutch fan and you are good to go.
I have come from french hot hatches and find the BMW so much easier to work on, being german everything is logical and better built.
I would either find a sorted one for £2-£3k or a standard one for £2k or less, kit it out with all the aforementioned tyres / weight saving etc and run it for a year. By then you will know if it's reliable enough, if not find another and swap your parts over
. Nearly every part is interchangeable between models which is a massive appeal for spares etc.
Saying that you could apply the same logic to a 182 or EP3 but both are not RWD!
Having a road legal track car is a nice idea but if you weigh up the cost, transporting can be cheaper - Depending on how many track days you'll do. If you have access to a trailer and tow vehicle then go for it but transporters work out better for some:
£100 a day
All come with winches
Carry up to 1500 kg on a standard license
Not restricted to 60mph like trailers
Jon
325 or 328 have the power and for the track the only addition to your list would be a set of decent coilers such as HSD mono pros.
Also preventative maintenance on the cooling is cheap and easy, metal thermostat housing/ metal water pump/ clutch fan and you are good to go.
I have come from french hot hatches and find the BMW so much easier to work on, being german everything is logical and better built.
I would either find a sorted one for £2-£3k or a standard one for £2k or less, kit it out with all the aforementioned tyres / weight saving etc and run it for a year. By then you will know if it's reliable enough, if not find another and swap your parts over
. Nearly every part is interchangeable between models which is a massive appeal for spares etc. Saying that you could apply the same logic to a 182 or EP3 but both are not RWD!
Having a road legal track car is a nice idea but if you weigh up the cost, transporting can be cheaper - Depending on how many track days you'll do. If you have access to a trailer and tow vehicle then go for it but transporters work out better for some:
£100 a day
All come with winches
Carry up to 1500 kg on a standard license
Not restricted to 60mph like trailers
Jon
JRS2Rallye said:
Another vote for the E36, I have had 3 of them and would not use anything else.
325 or 328 have the power and for the track the only addition to your list would be a set of decent coilers such as HSD mono pros.
Also preventative maintenance on the cooling is cheap and easy, metal thermostat housing/ metal water pump/ clutch fan and you are good to go.
I have come from french hot hatches and find the BMW so much easier to work on, being german everything is logical and better built.
I would either find a sorted one for £2-£3k or a standard one for £2k or less, kit it out with all the aforementioned tyres / weight saving etc and run it for a year. By then you will know if it's reliable enough, if not find another and swap your parts over. Nearly every part is interchangeable between models which is a massive appeal for spares etc.
Saying that you could apply the same logic to a 182 or EP3 but both are not RWD!
Having a road legal track car is a nice idea but if you weigh up the cost, transporting can be cheaper - Depending on how many track days you'll do. If you have access to a trailer and tow vehicle then go for it but transporters work out better for some:
£100 a day
All come with winches
Carry up to 1500 kg on a standard license
Not restricted to 60mph like trailers
Jon
Agree with this but avoid HSD's at all costs! not really suitable for track and so so many reviews of issues, poor build quality and corrosion. Pay a bit more and go for a KW v3 or if you budget will allow then KW clubsport all the way (same internal valving as the competition)325 or 328 have the power and for the track the only addition to your list would be a set of decent coilers such as HSD mono pros.
Also preventative maintenance on the cooling is cheap and easy, metal thermostat housing/ metal water pump/ clutch fan and you are good to go.
I have come from french hot hatches and find the BMW so much easier to work on, being german everything is logical and better built.
I would either find a sorted one for £2-£3k or a standard one for £2k or less, kit it out with all the aforementioned tyres / weight saving etc and run it for a year. By then you will know if it's reliable enough, if not find another and swap your parts over
. Nearly every part is interchangeable between models which is a massive appeal for spares etc. Saying that you could apply the same logic to a 182 or EP3 but both are not RWD!
Having a road legal track car is a nice idea but if you weigh up the cost, transporting can be cheaper - Depending on how many track days you'll do. If you have access to a trailer and tow vehicle then go for it but transporters work out better for some:
£100 a day
All come with winches
Carry up to 1500 kg on a standard license
Not restricted to 60mph like trailers
Jon
JRS2Rallye said:
Another vote for the E36, I have had 3 of them and would not use anything else.
325 or 328 have the power and for the track the only addition to your list would be a set of decent coilers such as HSD mono pros.
Also preventative maintenance on the cooling is cheap and easy, metal thermostat housing/ metal water pump/ clutch fan and you are good to go.
I have come from french hot hatches and find the BMW so much easier to work on, being german everything is logical and better built.
I would either find a sorted one for £2-£3k or a standard one for £2k or less, kit it out with all the aforementioned tyres / weight saving etc and run it for a year. By then you will know if it's reliable enough, if not find another and swap your parts over. Nearly every part is interchangeable between models which is a massive appeal for spares etc.
Saying that you could apply the same logic to a 182 or EP3 but both are not RWD!
Having a road legal track car is a nice idea but if you weigh up the cost, transporting can be cheaper - Depending on how many track days you'll do. If you have access to a trailer and tow vehicle then go for it but transporters work out better for some:
£100 a day
All come with winches
Carry up to 1500 kg on a standard license
Not restricted to 60mph like trailers
Jon
Do you have any recommendations for transporter hire?325 or 328 have the power and for the track the only addition to your list would be a set of decent coilers such as HSD mono pros.
Also preventative maintenance on the cooling is cheap and easy, metal thermostat housing/ metal water pump/ clutch fan and you are good to go.
I have come from french hot hatches and find the BMW so much easier to work on, being german everything is logical and better built.
I would either find a sorted one for £2-£3k or a standard one for £2k or less, kit it out with all the aforementioned tyres / weight saving etc and run it for a year. By then you will know if it's reliable enough, if not find another and swap your parts over
. Nearly every part is interchangeable between models which is a massive appeal for spares etc. Saying that you could apply the same logic to a 182 or EP3 but both are not RWD!
Having a road legal track car is a nice idea but if you weigh up the cost, transporting can be cheaper - Depending on how many track days you'll do. If you have access to a trailer and tow vehicle then go for it but transporters work out better for some:
£100 a day
All come with winches
Carry up to 1500 kg on a standard license
Not restricted to 60mph like trailers
Jon
usn90 said:
Yes point well made, I’m not set on fwd.
I’m also not set on making the 355 a regular on the track, I feel compentant behind the wheel of it, controlled many slides etc, my main concern is somebody else making contact though being overly aggressive which is why I want to get a feel of the general track temperament.
I used to race professionally, so my track experience is of a no inch given mentality.
Ive never driven the 220’s/Elise’s etc, I’m sure they make fantastic cars on the track. I will take a look
Generally people are well behaved and not racing each other in the way you would behave in a competitive event.I’m also not set on making the 355 a regular on the track, I feel compentant behind the wheel of it, controlled many slides etc, my main concern is somebody else making contact though being overly aggressive which is why I want to get a feel of the general track temperament.
I used to race professionally, so my track experience is of a no inch given mentality.
Ive never driven the 220’s/Elise’s etc, I’m sure they make fantastic cars on the track. I will take a look
Contact is extremely rare on a track day. If someone is quicker let them past, if they are behaving like a loon then steer well clear. If you have racing experience I don't think that this will materialize to be a real concern
Whenever I see a caterham or similar at a track day the owner spends more time in the pits fixing something than actually driving. I just did a day on Saturday where there were 2 and neither of them managed more than 2 laps at a time.
I’m sure they’re great when the stars align and everything works but I couldn’t be arsed with the other 95% of the time.
I’m sure they’re great when the stars align and everything works but I couldn’t be arsed with the other 95% of the time.
HustleRussell said:
That surely means you know as much about track driving and track cars as anybody does on here?
I know about competitive race weekends, and even test days.The key differences are the fact that I will be sharing the track with a wide range of drivers skill sets and mentatilty, Ive never been on a public track day before, that coupled with me actually owning the car I would be driving persuaded me to ask those more experienced.
I did not know about the no corner overtaking rule for instance.
Although I’ve not had chance to test my own other 355’s with tubis go well over the 101/105 dB noise restrictions anyway so that idea may be dead in the water.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Ive decided I will be buying a non track prepped car, reason being I want to make this my own project, I was reading the thread the rx8 guys created which in turn inspired me to start from scratch.
Shortlist
FWD -ep3/172/182
Rwd - mr2/ mx5/ or bmw
now reason I backtracked on the mx5 is because the recommendations the car gets, and I see somebody just mentioned a k20’ d mx5, I forgot all about that being quite a common engine swap and in a way morphs my fondness of the type R’s into a well handling car
Ive decided I will be buying a non track prepped car, reason being I want to make this my own project, I was reading the thread the rx8 guys created which in turn inspired me to start from scratch.
Shortlist
FWD -ep3/172/182
Rwd - mr2/ mx5/ or bmw
now reason I backtracked on the mx5 is because the recommendations the car gets, and I see somebody just mentioned a k20’ d mx5, I forgot all about that being quite a common engine swap and in a way morphs my fondness of the type R’s into a well handling car
usn90 said:
Thanks for the suggestions.
Ive decided I will be buying a non track prepped car, reason being I want to make this my own project, I was reading the thread the rx8 guys created which in turn inspired me to start from scratch.
Shortlist
FWD -ep3/172/182
Rwd - mr2/ mx5/ or bmw
now reason I backtracked on the mx5 is because the recommendations the car gets, and I see somebody just mentioned a k20’ d mx5, I forgot all about that being quite a common engine swap and in a way morphs my fondness of the type R’s into a well handling car
I have a 182 and FK8 Type R which have both been on track and were great. I'm not sure of the upside of taking the 355 on track.Ive decided I will be buying a non track prepped car, reason being I want to make this my own project, I was reading the thread the rx8 guys created which in turn inspired me to start from scratch.
Shortlist
FWD -ep3/172/182
Rwd - mr2/ mx5/ or bmw
now reason I backtracked on the mx5 is because the recommendations the car gets, and I see somebody just mentioned a k20’ d mx5, I forgot all about that being quite a common engine swap and in a way morphs my fondness of the type R’s into a well handling car
Hi usn90
I don't usually post, but I love trackdays and remember having these exact questions myself a few years ago, so I'd love to help if I can. First off - good decision on getting yourself a track car, you won't regret it. I've done dozens of trackdays over the years and have never had a bad experience yet - only hours of fun! Based on what you've said my personal opinions would be the following:
- Straight line speed isn't a huge factor for most people on trackdays -
Don't be afraid to go for a car "lacking in power". A great starting point would be one of the above mentioned cars MX5, Civic, Fiesta ST. I have owned and done trackdays in all of these and have loved each one of them. I've also done trackdays in more powerful turbocharged cars like Evos and Imprezas and I can honestly say that the fun does not go up with the power figures. Also bear in mind that in a lower powered car, mistakes usually have less severe consequences.
- The Ferrari probably isn't going to suit you for general trackday driving -
It is a precious car, and although other drivers are very unlikely to cause you any problems, a trip into the gravel trap or tyre wall might cause serious heartache. On top of that you have the upkeep costs; on a car like that you will be looking at considerably higher costs that you just won't get on the smaller cheaper cars mentioned in the posts above. It's not just the tyres and brakes, you can also run into a plethora of other issues brought on by over-exuberant track use such as overheating, or gearbox damage etc. which will be substantially more expensive in your Ferrari. If you're looking to get out on track in the Ferrari then perhaps some kind of 'members meeting' or owners club event would be better suited to you than a general trackday? You'd be around like minded folk in similar cars who will probably take it easier and also be on hand to help should anything go wrong. However, that is only my opinion - some people do general trackdays in their £200k Porsches!
- Buy a cheap hot hatch -
This is of course entirely subjective and down to personal preference, but my view is buy a Clio 182, Civic EP3, or Fiesta ST. My reasoning is that these cars very rarely let you down on a trackday. When they do go wrong you can usually fix them there at the track. Running costs are genuinely very minimal. Spare parts, new brakes, tyres etc are all at the inexpensive end of the market. In an absolute worse case scenario that you blow the engine or wreck the body shell then a replacement engine or shell will cost you the equivalent of a weekly shop at Sainsburys! And finally, you will always have others to play with at trackdays... I challenge anyone to find a trackday in the UK which does not have half a dozen Clios booked onto it. It's much more fun driving a car when there are five more of the same car out there buzzing around at the same time.
- Buying a track ready car is always cheaper than doing it yourself -
Sometimes considerably so. I bought a fully race prepped MX5 for sub £4k and it was an absolute hoot to drive, plus it came with the safety benefits of a full rollcage, race seat, 6 point harness and plumbed in extinguisher. Conversely I'm now £6k+ into building my own Fiesta ST track car and despite all the money spent it still doesn't have any of those features yet. So I'd strongly recommend buying a car that is already built for the track - just make sure its been well looked after, regularly serviced, and not left outside under a tarp for months on end.
- Get a car that is road legal -
Having just sold my EK9 Civic for this exact reason, I'd recommend getting a car that is road legal and keeping it that way. There is a lot to be said for being able to drive your road car out of your garage and straight to your local circuit, especially for a short evening session. The faff involved in driving a trailer or transporter and loading up and unloading and towing etc, all takes part of the fun away from a trackday. It can be hard work, and I get so much more enjoyment out of a day by just arriving in the car and then driving it home again. If something goes wrong, you can always pay to be collected on a low-loader.
- A trackday is nothing like racing -
I've been at the sharp end of other drivers 'frivolities' during races and I know what it feels like to get out of your car and see parts of it hanging off due to others lackluster driving standards - but that's racing! Trackdays really are nothing like this. People give each other space and respect, and you can always let someone past if they are making you feel nervous or getting too close. Driving standards on the whole are fairly high, and you don't generally see or hear anyone complaining about each other. Yes, you will get the odd driver nipping past in the corners in a lightweight Seven or something - but on the whole people are very safe and respectful.
Bit of a long post sorry, but hopefully not rambling. My main view is - do it! Get a track car and go out and have fun. The people you meet and the fun you have are a totally different experience to racing, and the lack of a structured race timetable etc makes the whole experience more chilled and in my view actually more enjoyable. Have fun!
I don't usually post, but I love trackdays and remember having these exact questions myself a few years ago, so I'd love to help if I can. First off - good decision on getting yourself a track car, you won't regret it. I've done dozens of trackdays over the years and have never had a bad experience yet - only hours of fun! Based on what you've said my personal opinions would be the following:
- Straight line speed isn't a huge factor for most people on trackdays -
Don't be afraid to go for a car "lacking in power". A great starting point would be one of the above mentioned cars MX5, Civic, Fiesta ST. I have owned and done trackdays in all of these and have loved each one of them. I've also done trackdays in more powerful turbocharged cars like Evos and Imprezas and I can honestly say that the fun does not go up with the power figures. Also bear in mind that in a lower powered car, mistakes usually have less severe consequences.
- The Ferrari probably isn't going to suit you for general trackday driving -
It is a precious car, and although other drivers are very unlikely to cause you any problems, a trip into the gravel trap or tyre wall might cause serious heartache. On top of that you have the upkeep costs; on a car like that you will be looking at considerably higher costs that you just won't get on the smaller cheaper cars mentioned in the posts above. It's not just the tyres and brakes, you can also run into a plethora of other issues brought on by over-exuberant track use such as overheating, or gearbox damage etc. which will be substantially more expensive in your Ferrari. If you're looking to get out on track in the Ferrari then perhaps some kind of 'members meeting' or owners club event would be better suited to you than a general trackday? You'd be around like minded folk in similar cars who will probably take it easier and also be on hand to help should anything go wrong. However, that is only my opinion - some people do general trackdays in their £200k Porsches!
- Buy a cheap hot hatch -
This is of course entirely subjective and down to personal preference, but my view is buy a Clio 182, Civic EP3, or Fiesta ST. My reasoning is that these cars very rarely let you down on a trackday. When they do go wrong you can usually fix them there at the track. Running costs are genuinely very minimal. Spare parts, new brakes, tyres etc are all at the inexpensive end of the market. In an absolute worse case scenario that you blow the engine or wreck the body shell then a replacement engine or shell will cost you the equivalent of a weekly shop at Sainsburys! And finally, you will always have others to play with at trackdays... I challenge anyone to find a trackday in the UK which does not have half a dozen Clios booked onto it. It's much more fun driving a car when there are five more of the same car out there buzzing around at the same time.
- Buying a track ready car is always cheaper than doing it yourself -
Sometimes considerably so. I bought a fully race prepped MX5 for sub £4k and it was an absolute hoot to drive, plus it came with the safety benefits of a full rollcage, race seat, 6 point harness and plumbed in extinguisher. Conversely I'm now £6k+ into building my own Fiesta ST track car and despite all the money spent it still doesn't have any of those features yet. So I'd strongly recommend buying a car that is already built for the track - just make sure its been well looked after, regularly serviced, and not left outside under a tarp for months on end.
- Get a car that is road legal -
Having just sold my EK9 Civic for this exact reason, I'd recommend getting a car that is road legal and keeping it that way. There is a lot to be said for being able to drive your road car out of your garage and straight to your local circuit, especially for a short evening session. The faff involved in driving a trailer or transporter and loading up and unloading and towing etc, all takes part of the fun away from a trackday. It can be hard work, and I get so much more enjoyment out of a day by just arriving in the car and then driving it home again. If something goes wrong, you can always pay to be collected on a low-loader.
- A trackday is nothing like racing -
I've been at the sharp end of other drivers 'frivolities' during races and I know what it feels like to get out of your car and see parts of it hanging off due to others lackluster driving standards - but that's racing! Trackdays really are nothing like this. People give each other space and respect, and you can always let someone past if they are making you feel nervous or getting too close. Driving standards on the whole are fairly high, and you don't generally see or hear anyone complaining about each other. Yes, you will get the odd driver nipping past in the corners in a lightweight Seven or something - but on the whole people are very safe and respectful.
Bit of a long post sorry, but hopefully not rambling. My main view is - do it! Get a track car and go out and have fun. The people you meet and the fun you have are a totally different experience to racing, and the lack of a structured race timetable etc makes the whole experience more chilled and in my view actually more enjoyable. Have fun!
usn90 said:
HustleRussell said:
usn90 said:
I used to race professionally
That surely means you know as much about track driving and track cars as anybody does on here? The key differences are the fact that I will be sharing the track with a wide range of drivers skill sets and mentatilty, Ive never been on a public track day before, that coupled with me actually owning the car I would be driving persuaded me to ask those more experienced.
Did you just go straight to test days?
You must’ve spent scores upon scores of weekends in kart and long circuit racing paddocks, you must have some idea of what makes an effective track car?
As others have said, a cheap trackable version of an F355 is an MR2.
I ran one myself a few years back. Get the suspension setup right and the balance is exceptional. A bit underpowered on the straights nowadays, but great fun.
Why not buy an ex "MR2 Championship" race car - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-MR2-1992-RACE-CA...
A bit more cost than an unfettled one, but ultimately cheaper than doing all the mods yourself. It will even hold it's value fairly well, provided you don't break it.
I ran one myself a few years back. Get the suspension setup right and the balance is exceptional. A bit underpowered on the straights nowadays, but great fun.
Why not buy an ex "MR2 Championship" race car - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-MR2-1992-RACE-CA...
A bit more cost than an unfettled one, but ultimately cheaper than doing all the mods yourself. It will even hold it's value fairly well, provided you don't break it.
Edited by DeanHelix on Tuesday 30th April 12:51
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