Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Poll: Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Total Members Polled: 300
Discussion
ZeroGroundZero said:
All that needs to be done is for trackday organisers to have a dedicated "race car" time slot(s) within the day's activities.
The problem with sessioned days is that if say towards the end of session 'a' someone causes a long stoppage, it's the people in session 'b' waiting to go out that
will be robbed of their track time.
ZeroGroundZero said:
A little late to the debate for me, but I picked "no".
All that needs to be done is for trackday organisers to have a dedicated "race car" time slot(s) within the day's activities.
I would suggest track day organisers simply have three different sessions running throughout the day.... 1st being "Race car" - for race cars obviously. 2nd being "Advanced" for trackday regulars who see themselves as competent on track, and the 3rd being a "Standard" session, whereby beginners and those who would not class themselves as "advanced" would get their slots.
The last trackday I went on was a few years ago and it had "beginner", "intermediate" and "advanced". I'm not sure the "intermediate" class needed to be there, it seems a bit superfluous to the set up.
I've done 1 sessioned trackday. It was the worst and least enjoyable day I've ever done.All that needs to be done is for trackday organisers to have a dedicated "race car" time slot(s) within the day's activities.
I would suggest track day organisers simply have three different sessions running throughout the day.... 1st being "Race car" - for race cars obviously. 2nd being "Advanced" for trackday regulars who see themselves as competent on track, and the 3rd being a "Standard" session, whereby beginners and those who would not class themselves as "advanced" would get their slots.
The last trackday I went on was a few years ago and it had "beginner", "intermediate" and "advanced". I'm not sure the "intermediate" class needed to be there, it seems a bit superfluous to the set up.
Suppose the natural answer to the question is people voting with their feet, as there are 'No Race Car' track days and novice only ones.
https://www.msvtrackdays.com/car/products/no-race-...
https://www.msvtrackdays.com/car/products/novice-o...
If they sold well, more would be run.
https://www.msvtrackdays.com/car/products/no-race-...
https://www.msvtrackdays.com/car/products/novice-o...
If they sold well, more would be run.
TheMuu said:
Suppose the natural answer to the question is people voting with their feet, as there are 'No Race Car' track days and novice only ones.
https://www.msvtrackdays.com/car/products/no-race-...
https://www.msvtrackdays.com/car/products/novice-o...
If they sold well, more would be run.
Anyone ever having to deal with MSV from the point of view of circuit hire will see the irony in this post. https://www.msvtrackdays.com/car/products/no-race-...
https://www.msvtrackdays.com/car/products/novice-o...
If they sold well, more would be run.
ZeroGroundZero said:
A little late to the debate for me, but I picked "no".
All that needs to be done is for trackday organisers to have a dedicated "race car" time slot(s) within the day's activities.
I would suggest track day organisers simply have three different sessions running throughout the day.... 1st being "Race car" - for race cars obviously. 2nd being "Advanced" for trackday regulars who see themselves as competent on track, and the 3rd being a "Standard" session, whereby beginners and those who would not class themselves as "advanced" would get their slots.
The last trackday I went on was a few years ago and it had "beginner", "intermediate" and "advanced". I'm not sure the "intermediate" class needed to be there, it seems a bit superfluous to the set up.
Sessioned days are truly terrible. Both as track days and test days. All that needs to be done is for trackday organisers to have a dedicated "race car" time slot(s) within the day's activities.
I would suggest track day organisers simply have three different sessions running throughout the day.... 1st being "Race car" - for race cars obviously. 2nd being "Advanced" for trackday regulars who see themselves as competent on track, and the 3rd being a "Standard" session, whereby beginners and those who would not class themselves as "advanced" would get their slots.
The last trackday I went on was a few years ago and it had "beginner", "intermediate" and "advanced". I'm not sure the "intermediate" class needed to be there, it seems a bit superfluous to the set up.
I posted much earlier in this thread and voted that race cars should not be banned from trackdays. Have been following since.
Pretty much every story someone has posted about bad experience (s) with race cars is because of rules being broken. If race cars are breaking the rules more than other partakers, then it's a TDO management issue more than anything else. Plus let's not forget what can be learnt from following a race driver around as track, if their particular car/driver combination is somewhere close to yours.
Sessioned days suck. Excluding race cars cuts out a large market share for TDOs, potentially reducing choice for the punter and/or driving up already significant cost. Any sort of classification based on driver experience, power to weight ratio, class of car etc, whilst effective in a race environment where most drivers sit within a fairly narrow spectrum of ability, will struggle to work in a trackday environment. The extremes of an absolute beginner in a slick shod radical, an experienced driver in the same car vs the same 2 drivers in an MG Midget mean there's a huge gulf of everything in between to manage.
If everyone follows the rules, the current system works very well. So when rules are broken, rule breakers need to be reported and action taken. And whilst experienced trackdayers/racers may be comfortable with being overtaken by other drivers in braking zones, corners etc (due to spatial awareness and the ability that comes with track/race experience of being able to read a car), this is very dangerous and intimidating for beginners/less experienced drivers who can be taken by surprise - hence why the rules exist.
Follow the rules. Report infringements to TDOs/marshals (don't need to be a dick about it). Let them take the requisite action. And let's all concentrate on driving fast and having a good time in a safe environment!
Pretty much every story someone has posted about bad experience (s) with race cars is because of rules being broken. If race cars are breaking the rules more than other partakers, then it's a TDO management issue more than anything else. Plus let's not forget what can be learnt from following a race driver around as track, if their particular car/driver combination is somewhere close to yours.
Sessioned days suck. Excluding race cars cuts out a large market share for TDOs, potentially reducing choice for the punter and/or driving up already significant cost. Any sort of classification based on driver experience, power to weight ratio, class of car etc, whilst effective in a race environment where most drivers sit within a fairly narrow spectrum of ability, will struggle to work in a trackday environment. The extremes of an absolute beginner in a slick shod radical, an experienced driver in the same car vs the same 2 drivers in an MG Midget mean there's a huge gulf of everything in between to manage.
If everyone follows the rules, the current system works very well. So when rules are broken, rule breakers need to be reported and action taken. And whilst experienced trackdayers/racers may be comfortable with being overtaken by other drivers in braking zones, corners etc (due to spatial awareness and the ability that comes with track/race experience of being able to read a car), this is very dangerous and intimidating for beginners/less experienced drivers who can be taken by surprise - hence why the rules exist.
Follow the rules. Report infringements to TDOs/marshals (don't need to be a dick about it). Let them take the requisite action. And let's all concentrate on driving fast and having a good time in a safe environment!
Above post nails it really, but it means everyone follows all the rules.
Faster cars (over a lap) dialling back the aggression to get past, but also slower ones using their mirrors, indicators, and obeying blues when used. When they do move over, lift as they've already killed the apex speed then turn it into a drag race.
Faster cars (over a lap) dialling back the aggression to get past, but also slower ones using their mirrors, indicators, and obeying blues when used. When they do move over, lift as they've already killed the apex speed then turn it into a drag race.
jdmave said:
Attended Goodwood track day last week and we couldn't have been made to feel more than welcome from all the staff at Goodwood and the other drivers both private and those using the sessions for preparation shakedown.
Brilliant time even though we were one of the slowest in our £900 steed (mk1 Audi tt roadster) and was half expecting to be getting a cab home.......it survived and didn't miss a heart beat....
The plan now is to try every UK circuit before venturing further afield if car continues.....
Ps.....The wife said sorry if she slowed anyone down but enjoyed all the banter
Feel free to join our MK1 TT Track group on Facebook, we also have a TT Time Attack group so there’s tons of knowledge and cars don’t all have to be extreme, but there is a lot of research and advice by people running up to 600bhp cars circa 1000kg kerb weightBrilliant time even though we were one of the slowest in our £900 steed (mk1 Audi tt roadster) and was half expecting to be getting a cab home.......it survived and didn't miss a heart beat....
The plan now is to try every UK circuit before venturing further afield if car continues.....
Ps.....The wife said sorry if she slowed anyone down but enjoyed all the banter
TheMuu said:
Above post nails it really, but it means everyone follows all the rules.
Faster cars (over a lap) dialling back the aggression to get past, but also slower ones using their mirrors, indicators, and obeying blues when used. When they do move over, lift as they've already killed the apex speed then turn it into a drag race.
You said it, sir! Faster cars (over a lap) dialling back the aggression to get past, but also slower ones using their mirrors, indicators, and obeying blues when used. When they do move over, lift as they've already killed the apex speed then turn it into a drag race.
motorhole said:
I posted much earlier in this thread and voted that race cars should not be banned from trackdays. Have been following since.
Pretty much every story someone has posted about bad experience (s) with race cars is because of rules being broken. If race cars are breaking the rules more than other partakers, then it's a TDO management issue more than anything else. Plus let's not forget what can be learnt from following a race driver around as track, if their particular car/driver combination is somewhere close to yours.
Sessioned days suck. Excluding race cars cuts out a large market share for TDOs, potentially reducing choice for the punter and/or driving up already significant cost. Any sort of classification based on driver experience, power to weight ratio, class of car etc, whilst effective in a race environment where most drivers sit within a fairly narrow spectrum of ability, will struggle to work in a trackday environment. The extremes of an absolute beginner in a slick shod radical, an experienced driver in the same car vs the same 2 drivers in an MG Midget mean there's a huge gulf of everything in between to manage.
If everyone follows the rules, the current system works very well. So when rules are broken, rule breakers need to be reported and action taken. And whilst experienced trackdayers/racers may be comfortable with being overtaken by other drivers in braking zones, corners etc (due to spatial awareness and the ability that comes with track/race experience of being able to read a car), this is very dangerous and intimidating for beginners/less experienced drivers who can be taken by surprise - hence why the rules exist.
Follow the rules. Report infringements to TDOs/marshals (don't need to be a dick about it). Let them take the requisite action. And let's all concentrate on driving fast and having a good time in a safe environment!
Sorry but by the time you report to the TDO it's too late. Track days are for safe fun with strict overtaking rules and certainly not in the braking or traction zones. Race teams enter TD to save money, not to have fun and will have zero incentive to comply. They should be booking test days. Pretty much every story someone has posted about bad experience (s) with race cars is because of rules being broken. If race cars are breaking the rules more than other partakers, then it's a TDO management issue more than anything else. Plus let's not forget what can be learnt from following a race driver around as track, if their particular car/driver combination is somewhere close to yours.
Sessioned days suck. Excluding race cars cuts out a large market share for TDOs, potentially reducing choice for the punter and/or driving up already significant cost. Any sort of classification based on driver experience, power to weight ratio, class of car etc, whilst effective in a race environment where most drivers sit within a fairly narrow spectrum of ability, will struggle to work in a trackday environment. The extremes of an absolute beginner in a slick shod radical, an experienced driver in the same car vs the same 2 drivers in an MG Midget mean there's a huge gulf of everything in between to manage.
If everyone follows the rules, the current system works very well. So when rules are broken, rule breakers need to be reported and action taken. And whilst experienced trackdayers/racers may be comfortable with being overtaken by other drivers in braking zones, corners etc (due to spatial awareness and the ability that comes with track/race experience of being able to read a car), this is very dangerous and intimidating for beginners/less experienced drivers who can be taken by surprise - hence why the rules exist.
Follow the rules. Report infringements to TDOs/marshals (don't need to be a dick about it). Let them take the requisite action. And let's all concentrate on driving fast and having a good time in a safe environment!
I did a track day at Bedford yesterday (Sat 15th Feb) and for the whole day the conditions were miserable as storm Dennis was in full swing.
Petty sure there were no racecars there and there were no red flags at all that day.......funny that.
I am the OP (who started this topic) and did it very much tongue in cheek, and I know a c**k is a c**k whatever car you put them in, but it’s funny isn’t it, an entire day of driving in appalling conditions with just road cars and modified ‘track cars’ and everyone seem to get round just fine.......
Petty sure there were no racecars there and there were no red flags at all that day.......funny that.
I am the OP (who started this topic) and did it very much tongue in cheek, and I know a c**k is a c**k whatever car you put them in, but it’s funny isn’t it, an entire day of driving in appalling conditions with just road cars and modified ‘track cars’ and everyone seem to get round just fine.......
By the same token I was doing a pre season trackday at Combe on Friday with plenty of race cars there from the CCRC, as well as a host of road and track cars.
The only red flags I recall were for a road car (Evo) breaking down, and a few for road cars stacking it into the barriers. I also nearly got wiped out by a road car (MX5) losing control in front of me and making a bit of a pigs ear of recovery.
The race cars were fine, and as I spent most of the day cruising or else driving inconsistently whilst struggling with braking problems, I can attest first hand that the drivers were all courteous and patient. The ‘trackday winners’, not so much!
Works both ways
The only red flags I recall were for a road car (Evo) breaking down, and a few for road cars stacking it into the barriers. I also nearly got wiped out by a road car (MX5) losing control in front of me and making a bit of a pigs ear of recovery.
The race cars were fine, and as I spent most of the day cruising or else driving inconsistently whilst struggling with braking problems, I can attest first hand that the drivers were all courteous and patient. The ‘trackday winners’, not so much!
Works both ways
CanoeSniffer said:
By the same token I was doing a pre season trackday at Combe on Friday with plenty of race cars there from the CCRC, as well as a host of road and track cars.
The only red flags I recall were for a road car (Evo) breaking down, and a few for road cars stacking it into the barriers. I also nearly got wiped out by a road car (MX5) losing control in front of me and making a bit of a pigs ear of recovery.
The race cars were fine, and as I spent most of the day cruising or else driving inconsistently whilst struggling with braking problems, I can attest first hand that the drivers were all courteous and patient. The ‘trackday winners’, not so much!
Works both ways
Precisely, depends on the people. Lots of 'trackday heros' which don't like to move and have ego which is unfortunate.The only red flags I recall were for a road car (Evo) breaking down, and a few for road cars stacking it into the barriers. I also nearly got wiped out by a road car (MX5) losing control in front of me and making a bit of a pigs ear of recovery.
The race cars were fine, and as I spent most of the day cruising or else driving inconsistently whilst struggling with braking problems, I can attest first hand that the drivers were all courteous and patient. The ‘trackday winners’, not so much!
Works both ways
nickfrog said:
Sorry but by the time you report to the TDO it's too late. Track days are for safe fun with strict overtaking rules and certainly not in the braking or traction zones. Race teams enter TD to save money, not to have fun and will have zero incentive to comply. They should be booking test days.
It`s not too late at all.If the Race guy is reported and spoken to by the TDO early on he has time to address his driving. If he does it again and is reported, the TDO should take steps to either take the car off the circuit for a sin-bin or remove him altogether.
If he goes to another trackday and is reported again, there is a good chance he`ll learn that behaving like a knob is going to get him sent home and to change his ways.
I don`t get why people won`t report bad driving straight away. If the rest of us follow what are very simple rules of the day, why can`t they and why shouldn`t they be taken to task about it ?
Wh00sher said:
It`s not too late at all.
If the Race guy is reported and spoken to by the TDO early on he has time to address his driving. If he does it again and is reported, the TDO should take steps to either take the car off the circuit for a sin-bin or remove him altogether.
If he goes to another trackday and is reported again, there is a good chance he`ll learn that behaving like a knob is going to get him sent home and to change his ways.
I don`t get why people won`t report bad driving straight away. If the rest of us follow what are very simple rules of the day, why can`t they and why shouldn`t they be taken to task about it ?
Mainly because I can't be bothered, I don't want to come in and stop my session, when im not driving I want to relax and not hunt around for the organiser. I've had a few experience where nothing occurred as a result I decided it was pointless. Maybe others are in the same boat.If the Race guy is reported and spoken to by the TDO early on he has time to address his driving. If he does it again and is reported, the TDO should take steps to either take the car off the circuit for a sin-bin or remove him altogether.
If he goes to another trackday and is reported again, there is a good chance he`ll learn that behaving like a knob is going to get him sent home and to change his ways.
I don`t get why people won`t report bad driving straight away. If the rest of us follow what are very simple rules of the day, why can`t they and why shouldn`t they be taken to task about it ?
Or, I have 2 racecars and a road car. All may be used this year although I'm only officially going to race 1 this year, the others are just for fun? Which category do I fit in?
Let's just face it, there's people that make mistakes and do trackdays, and some that make mistakes also race. So let's not discriminate on the car.
Let's just face it, there's people that make mistakes and do trackdays, and some that make mistakes also race. So let's not discriminate on the car.
Edited by Zoobeef on Sunday 16th February 22:07
The very first track dad I did was at Snetterton in Feburary a few years ago and I was the only road car there. Everyone else was testing for the up coming racing season.
There were a couple of breakdowns causing red flags but really no more than any other day with a bigger road car contingent. It was good to try and keep up with a genuine race car. Something which I failed at but it was a lot of fun nonetheless.
There were a couple of breakdowns causing red flags but really no more than any other day with a bigger road car contingent. It was good to try and keep up with a genuine race car. Something which I failed at but it was a lot of fun nonetheless.
Wh00sher said:
nickfrog said:
Sorry but by the time you report to the TDO it's too late. Track days are for safe fun with strict overtaking rules and certainly not in the braking or traction zones. Race teams enter TD to save money, not to have fun and will have zero incentive to comply. They should be booking test days.
It`s not too late at all.If the Race guy is reported and spoken to by the TDO early on he has time to address his driving. If he does it again and is reported, the TDO should take steps to either take the car off the circuit for a sin-bin or remove him altogether.
If he goes to another trackday and is reported again, there is a good chance he`ll learn that behaving like a knob is going to get him sent home and to change his ways.
I don`t get why people won`t report bad driving straight away. If the rest of us follow what are very simple rules of the day, why can`t they and why shouldn`t they be taken to task about it ?
t. I reported them, but the "damage" was done as it was their last run clearly. It wasn't the end of the world but you basically had to let them trough on turn in as they were not complying whith the rules clearly set out in the briefing. It's kind of expected hence my yes vote. Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff