Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Poll: Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Total Members Polled: 300
Discussion
johnwilliams77 said:
This one should be banned: 3:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh7K-P8AFCA
That Porsche should be banned, chasing times on a trackday, what a knobber, he'll ruin it for the rest of us etc etc. ribiero said:
johnwilliams77 said:
This one should be banned: 3:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh7K-P8AFCA
That Porsche should be banned, chasing times on a trackday, what a knobber, he'll ruin it for the rest of us etc etc. 
https://www.tsl-timing.com/event/183403/session/gr...
Well, had a day at Blyton today and had a great day, big mix of cars and everyone was well behaved and courteous APART from two race cars, a knob in a simca that wouldn't move over for me despite blue flags, 3 laps of this and he got black flagged so good work track control!
The other was a clio race car that was sat millimetres from my rear bumper through the last sector when I was stuck behind a slower car. There's no overtaking allowed there so what is there to gain from risking both of our cars?
Some novices did strange things whilst trying to let cars past, but atleast they weren't being aggressive to others, I think novices being unsure mixed with the aggressive nature of SOME race drivers could cause big problems
The other was a clio race car that was sat millimetres from my rear bumper through the last sector when I was stuck behind a slower car. There's no overtaking allowed there so what is there to gain from risking both of our cars?
Some novices did strange things whilst trying to let cars past, but atleast they weren't being aggressive to others, I think novices being unsure mixed with the aggressive nature of SOME race drivers could cause big problems
I’ve done one track day in my race car, which is a ‘62 Ford Anglia 105e, which was on mandated Dunlop M sections (I.e. no grip). It was a Lotus on Track day, which meant in general I was amongst the quickest on the corners and about midfield on the straights. Got to say it was ok, everyone kept out of each other’s way.
Contrast that to a formal test day, where I was in a Ford 100e (800kg with 120bhp) in a field containing Chevron B8’s, McLaren M4’s, Lola T70’s and that years MG Le Mans car. Now that was scary and utterly pointless for me as a test day as I spent the entire time looking in the rear view mirror with my heart in my mouth. Problem is if you split it as race only or road only, there’s still a huge variety of ‘talent’ as well as vehicle capabilities.
Contrast that to a formal test day, where I was in a Ford 100e (800kg with 120bhp) in a field containing Chevron B8’s, McLaren M4’s, Lola T70’s and that years MG Le Mans car. Now that was scary and utterly pointless for me as a test day as I spent the entire time looking in the rear view mirror with my heart in my mouth. Problem is if you split it as race only or road only, there’s still a huge variety of ‘talent’ as well as vehicle capabilities.
I think Donington on Wednesday was the closest to making contact Ive ever been.
A C1 Citroën race car pulled out of the paddock exit right into my line into Redgate down the second straight where everyone is doing some speed. I veered to the right and made an early apex but he had paid no attention to me and took the normal line which meant cutting across in front of me. If I hadn't braked really hard we would have made contact. Have the whole thing on video as well when I can be bothered to sort through the footage.
Why not just wait a few seconds? There was no one behind me.
A C1 Citroën race car pulled out of the paddock exit right into my line into Redgate down the second straight where everyone is doing some speed. I veered to the right and made an early apex but he had paid no attention to me and took the normal line which meant cutting across in front of me. If I hadn't braked really hard we would have made contact. Have the whole thing on video as well when I can be bothered to sort through the footage.
Why not just wait a few seconds? There was no one behind me.
Edited by tigamilla on Friday 25th October 22:24
tigamilla said:
I think Donington on Wednesday was the closest to making contact Ive ever been.
A C1 Citroën race car pulled out of the paddock exit right into my line into Redgate down the second straight where everyone is doing some speed. I veered to the right and made an early apex but he had paid no attention to me and took the normal line which meant cutting across in front of me. If I hadn't braked really hard we would have made contact. Have the whole thing on video as well when I can be bothered to sort through the footage.
Why not just wait a few seconds? There was no one behind me.
From what I've heard about the C1 series, he's probably one of the cleaner drivers! A C1 Citroën race car pulled out of the paddock exit right into my line into Redgate down the second straight where everyone is doing some speed. I veered to the right and made an early apex but he had paid no attention to me and took the normal line which meant cutting across in front of me. If I hadn't braked really hard we would have made contact. Have the whole thing on video as well when I can be bothered to sort through the footage.
Why not just wait a few seconds? There was no one behind me.
Edited by tigamilla on Friday 25th October 22:24
l354uge said:
tigamilla said:
I think Donington on Wednesday was the closest to making contact Ive ever been.
A C1 Citroën race car pulled out of the paddock exit right into my line into Redgate down the second straight where everyone is doing some speed. I veered to the right and made an early apex but he had paid no attention to me and took the normal line which meant cutting across in front of me. If I hadn't braked really hard we would have made contact. Have the whole thing on video as well when I can be bothered to sort through the footage.
Why not just wait a few seconds? There was no one behind me.
From what I've heard about the C1 series, he's probably one of the cleaner drivers! A C1 Citroën race car pulled out of the paddock exit right into my line into Redgate down the second straight where everyone is doing some speed. I veered to the right and made an early apex but he had paid no attention to me and took the normal line which meant cutting across in front of me. If I hadn't braked really hard we would have made contact. Have the whole thing on video as well when I can be bothered to sort through the footage.
Why not just wait a few seconds? There was no one behind me.
Edited by tigamilla on Friday 25th October 22:24
johnwilliams77 said:
This one should be banned: 3:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh7K-P8AFCA
Why should he be banned? A few years ago, I would have been in favour of restricting race cars on trackdays, but after selling my Elise after literally hundreds of trackdays and buying a Caterham and racing it for the last few seasons, funnily enough I have changed my opinion-)
Test days are very expensive and the ones before the race weekend are pretty much compulsory. As well as being expensive, they are pretty bad value, almost always sessioned, which means 4 x 25 or 30min sessions all day, not enough time to effectively try different setups or in fact do anything other than get a feel where your competitors are at and make sure the car is sorted for qualifying.
Open Pit lane trackdays are a much better environment for getting the car optimised, because you can do a couple of laps with different rollbar/toe/tyre settings and just come in as soon as you realise they are crap and try something else.
The closer you get to a race weekend the more folks book the trackdays. (some because the test days are sold out or they can’t make them, some because they need/want the extra seat time) I often feel sorry for the trackday attendees when I look around the paddock and realise that there are packs of Caterhams attending. The problem with single make race cars and especially Caterhams is the requirement (at some circuits more than others) for a decent tow to get a good lap. This often means that you can find half a dozen of them nose to tail and when another car lets the guy at the front through, they all come past because they can’t bear to loose the pack.
Almost every racecar nowadays has a vbox or similar and as a result will time every lap automatically and any circuit without you even asking it to. When you are using predictive lap timing it does push you to make a move on a car in front that you might not because you are 3 tenths up….
As has been said, idiots can be found behind the wheel of every genre on track, its really down to the organisers to make it clear they don’t tolerate rule breaking and perhaps make an example of a few folks so that everyone knows if racecars or in fact any car breaks the rules their day ends. Perhaps also limiting the number of one make cars on the track would help to. Even if every single one of 20 race cars gets sent home because they break rules or can’t help pushing over the limit, that’s still potentially 20 red flags…..
As for an outright ban, I can’t help thinking that would put many TDO’s out of business.
Test days are very expensive and the ones before the race weekend are pretty much compulsory. As well as being expensive, they are pretty bad value, almost always sessioned, which means 4 x 25 or 30min sessions all day, not enough time to effectively try different setups or in fact do anything other than get a feel where your competitors are at and make sure the car is sorted for qualifying.
Open Pit lane trackdays are a much better environment for getting the car optimised, because you can do a couple of laps with different rollbar/toe/tyre settings and just come in as soon as you realise they are crap and try something else.
The closer you get to a race weekend the more folks book the trackdays. (some because the test days are sold out or they can’t make them, some because they need/want the extra seat time) I often feel sorry for the trackday attendees when I look around the paddock and realise that there are packs of Caterhams attending. The problem with single make race cars and especially Caterhams is the requirement (at some circuits more than others) for a decent tow to get a good lap. This often means that you can find half a dozen of them nose to tail and when another car lets the guy at the front through, they all come past because they can’t bear to loose the pack.
Almost every racecar nowadays has a vbox or similar and as a result will time every lap automatically and any circuit without you even asking it to. When you are using predictive lap timing it does push you to make a move on a car in front that you might not because you are 3 tenths up….
As has been said, idiots can be found behind the wheel of every genre on track, its really down to the organisers to make it clear they don’t tolerate rule breaking and perhaps make an example of a few folks so that everyone knows if racecars or in fact any car breaks the rules their day ends. Perhaps also limiting the number of one make cars on the track would help to. Even if every single one of 20 race cars gets sent home because they break rules or can’t help pushing over the limit, that’s still potentially 20 red flags…..
As for an outright ban, I can’t help thinking that would put many TDO’s out of business.
How do you define "race car"? My track car is completely stripped, seam welded, full cage, perspex, sometimes slicks, etc yet has an MOT and number plates. Never been raced, but built to specific regs..
I recently did Brands Hatch Indy with MSV, and despite the briefing clearly stating no racing, no passing without consent, no timing, etc. (per usual) this was completely ignored by some attendees
There was a big mix of cars there:
track day cars - bmws, minis, a rolls-royce convertible?!
amateur race cars - caterhams, radicals, minis, couple of classics (TVR, Mustang, etc)
professional race cars - 911 gt3's, cayman gt4's, ferraris
the track day'ers and amateur racers were well behaved and had a good day - one or two offs early on while it was wet. The pro guys were a bit of a joke - up peoples backsides, running in packs of two or three GT cars together. off the track the teams were running telemetry, laptiming, and generally treating is as a test day. There were a few complaints i heard early on while queuing for coffee, but it was shrugged off by MSV and nothing was done. I've done a few RMA days and there's always ridiculous cars there (super cars, race cars, etc) but they're always well behaved - people might treat it as a shake-down and in some ways a test for cars, BUT I've never had an issue with bad behavior. even when my wife took to the track for the first time (and was initially a long way off the pace) people were patient and gave her space
Long post, but in summary, the type of car is largely irrelevant - its about people behaving appropriately and showing other people some respect
I recently did Brands Hatch Indy with MSV, and despite the briefing clearly stating no racing, no passing without consent, no timing, etc. (per usual) this was completely ignored by some attendees
There was a big mix of cars there:
track day cars - bmws, minis, a rolls-royce convertible?!
amateur race cars - caterhams, radicals, minis, couple of classics (TVR, Mustang, etc)
professional race cars - 911 gt3's, cayman gt4's, ferraris
the track day'ers and amateur racers were well behaved and had a good day - one or two offs early on while it was wet. The pro guys were a bit of a joke - up peoples backsides, running in packs of two or three GT cars together. off the track the teams were running telemetry, laptiming, and generally treating is as a test day. There were a few complaints i heard early on while queuing for coffee, but it was shrugged off by MSV and nothing was done. I've done a few RMA days and there's always ridiculous cars there (super cars, race cars, etc) but they're always well behaved - people might treat it as a shake-down and in some ways a test for cars, BUT I've never had an issue with bad behavior. even when my wife took to the track for the first time (and was initially a long way off the pace) people were patient and gave her space
Long post, but in summary, the type of car is largely irrelevant - its about people behaving appropriately and showing other people some respect
I had a similar experience at Brands in an open pit lane day recently. I was one of a handful of road cars and I have never driven Brands before. Many of the cars there were race cars managed by teams. Most were considerate but for example we had 3 or 4 Ginetttas Juniors driving inches from each other and overtaking in a pack on the braking zone. Not great if you are in a road car on road tyres and don't know the track. With 30+ cars on a one mile track it meant there was never a time when I could take my eyes off my mirrors. As another poster says its against the rules but the organisers know at this time of year the majority of their income comes from race and dedicated track cars. On a positive note it certainly got me used to how to handle traffic on a track!
hilts uk said:
Most were considerate but for example we had 3 or 4 Ginetttas Juniors driving inches from each other and overtaking in a pack on the braking zone
And if you're an average Billy you get warned or chucked for doing this. I think it is as much down the type of car as it is down to attitude of the driver. Why? Because of the typical closing speed between road and race cars, which will often tempt your average racing driver to execute those overtakes against the rules.
This is why I voted yes as test days should be kept separate. I wouldn't mind paying more for track days as a consequence, but I am perhaps in a minority.
nickfrog said:
And if you're an average Billy you get warned or chucked for doing this.
I think it is as much down the type of car as it is down to attitude of the driver. Why? Because of the typical closing speed between road and race cars, which will often tempt your average racing driver to execute those overtakes against the rules.
This is why I voted yes as test days should be kept separate. I wouldn't mind paying more for track days as a consequence, but I am perhaps in a minority.
agree on both points.I think it is as much down the type of car as it is down to attitude of the driver. Why? Because of the typical closing speed between road and race cars, which will often tempt your average racing driver to execute those overtakes against the rules.
This is why I voted yes as test days should be kept separate. I wouldn't mind paying more for track days as a consequence, but I am perhaps in a minority.
TDOs aren't that strategic in their thinking. it's a tough business and turning away secure income from racers is difficult against encouraging future revenue from track dayers who might do more days or become racers.
Also all TDs use marshals that work for the track, so for better policing of the rules TDOs have to go out of their way to brief these guys. OR maybe Jonathan Palmer decides that marshalling standards need improving from a track perspective. MSV tracks are all covered by comprehensive CCTV, but that is (actively) monitored by MSV staff not the TDO.
nickfrog said:
Yes perhaps but the objective for race teams is testing and set up, not fun.
Seems at odds with what some track organisers say on their websites:"Fun, safe and friendly events run by industry professionals." Bookatrack
"At Javelin all types of car and levels of ability are welcome, there is no elitism just a common cause of enjoying cars in a fun yet safety conscious environment." Javlin
NickGRhodes said:
nickfrog said:
Yes perhaps but the objective for race teams is testing and set up, not fun.
Seems at odds with what some track organisers say on their websites:"Fun, safe and friendly events run by industry professionals." Bookatrack
"At Javelin all types of car and levels of ability are welcome, there is no elitism just a common cause of enjoying cars in a fun yet safety conscious environment." Javlin
Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 2nd November 13:20
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff