Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Poll: Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Total Members Polled: 300
Discussion
I voted ‘yes’, but really it’s only been a problem with Javelin days at Donington. Fiesta Juniors, Ginetta Juniors, Radicals, assorted club racers. I’ve been there on a few occasions when drivers are there to practice for upcoming races, and not allowing anything to slow their lap time.
On the other hand, I’ve been at other tracks where club racers are there in humble Clios, E36 BMWs etc without causing problems for trackday drivers. I only have a problem with race cars/drivers on trackdays when they try and bully others out of the way.
On the other hand, I’ve been at other tracks where club racers are there in humble Clios, E36 BMWs etc without causing problems for trackday drivers. I only have a problem with race cars/drivers on trackdays when they try and bully others out of the way.
Interestingly I was speaking to one of the marshals at Castle Combe today whilst waiting to go on track and it seems the marshals have a sweepstake on how many red flags there will be and this woman had gone for 13!!!
We managed 3 laps in the first session before a red flag due to a fiesta St destroying its engine, the driver carried on going spreading oil all over the track.
Another red flag for another fiesta st engine failure.
Another for a saxo that disintegrated by shedding it's bumper in the track. Then another for a mini that killed its engine an carried on dropping oil all over the place. Another for a car that had issues so the driver stopped on the edge of the track (not on the grass) to start having a look.
All of them amateurs who ignored the driver brief.
Top tip for Fiesta St owners, get a baffled sump!
We managed 3 laps in the first session before a red flag due to a fiesta St destroying its engine, the driver carried on going spreading oil all over the track.
Another red flag for another fiesta st engine failure.
Another for a saxo that disintegrated by shedding it's bumper in the track. Then another for a mini that killed its engine an carried on dropping oil all over the place. Another for a car that had issues so the driver stopped on the edge of the track (not on the grass) to start having a look.
All of them amateurs who ignored the driver brief.
Top tip for Fiesta St owners, get a baffled sump!
SpudLink said:
I’ve been there on a few occasions when drivers are there to practice for upcoming races, and not allowing anything to slow their lap time.
It’s certainly easy enough at knockhill to check what’s on and avoid booking In the days running up to certain weekend events. The day I shared with the mini lot was iirc a Thursday with them racing on the Saturday - so in hindsight fairly predictable that a few would be there.Maybe booking weekend track days is the solution for people who want to avoid it as most the race cars will at their meeting elsewhere? That or do grouped days.
Edited by Black_S3 on Saturday 7th September 17:51
I enjoy having them around - the track days I attend usually have groups and I stay out of the top group where slicks are allowed. I enjoy seeing the 991 Cups and various Ferrari/Lambo challenge and Trofeo cars when they are out an about
And I briefly considered buying one as track day car and would not want to be limited to test days
And I briefly considered buying one as track day car and would not want to be limited to test days
Ive also wondered if there could be a zero tolerance on gravel trap usage... at donington for example, on an evening session, an organiser could impose the rule that if you go in the gravel, your day is over.
So racecars and drivers still allowed, but every time they waste everyone elses time by getting themselves in the gravel, that car is not allowed back on track.
Since the only cars visiting the gravel were racecars, they would be the ones punished. Wouldnt stop the t
ttish driving, but would minimise stoppages for red flags. After all, its a track day, not a gravel rally.
So racecars and drivers still allowed, but every time they waste everyone elses time by getting themselves in the gravel, that car is not allowed back on track.
Since the only cars visiting the gravel were racecars, they would be the ones punished. Wouldnt stop the t
ttish driving, but would minimise stoppages for red flags. After all, its a track day, not a gravel rally.brillomaster said:
Ive also wondered if there could be a zero tolerance on gravel trap usage... at donington for example, on an evening session, an organiser could impose the rule that if you go in the gravel, your day is over.
So racecars and drivers still allowed, but every time they waste everyone elses time by getting themselves in the gravel, that car is not allowed back on track.
Since the only cars visiting the gravel were racecars, they would be the ones punished. Wouldnt stop the tttish driving, but would minimise stoppages for red flags. After all, its a track day, not a gravel rally.
Yes, Donnington and gravel. A Boxter in full race livery went off, managed to rejoin. Instead of clearing the gravel from his car, he carried on at racing speed. I followed him into Craner Curves, only to be pebble dashed with the stones that his car was carrying in its bodywork. Damaged my paintwork, broke a headlamp, and damaged my crash helmet (I don’t have a windscreen.)So racecars and drivers still allowed, but every time they waste everyone elses time by getting themselves in the gravel, that car is not allowed back on track.
Since the only cars visiting the gravel were racecars, they would be the ones punished. Wouldnt stop the t
ttish driving, but would minimise stoppages for red flags. After all, its a track day, not a gravel rally.Generally I would expect someone on a trackday to clear their car after an off. But obviously he wasn’t going to loose his precious setup time.
In hindsight I could have stayed further away from him, but as I’m not a racing driver that’s not something I’d experienced.
muzza289 said:
Ok - so this poll is a bit tongue in cheek but hear me out.....
I attend 4 - 5 track days a year. Road car - just a bit of fun. Trying to find the car's (and my!) limits and abilities.
Attended Donnington on 4th September. A Javlin Day - i find them usually quite well run.
There were 9 Red flags during the day (must be some kind of record?) - every one of them was because of a race car breaking down, spinning off, or just generally driving badly and losing control. They pretty much ruined the day.
I know the organisers need the numbers to make the finances work, so they don't mind who turns up as long as they pay.
But if you're serious about racing - put your hand in your pocket and pay your money to go to a proper test day to set you race car up and leave the track days to numpties like me who just want to have a bit of fun.
(Right, I've got my tin hat on and i'm ready for the onslaught.............)
I was there on Wednesday too.I attend 4 - 5 track days a year. Road car - just a bit of fun. Trying to find the car's (and my!) limits and abilities.
Attended Donnington on 4th September. A Javlin Day - i find them usually quite well run.
There were 9 Red flags during the day (must be some kind of record?) - every one of them was because of a race car breaking down, spinning off, or just generally driving badly and losing control. They pretty much ruined the day.
I know the organisers need the numbers to make the finances work, so they don't mind who turns up as long as they pay.
But if you're serious about racing - put your hand in your pocket and pay your money to go to a proper test day to set you race car up and leave the track days to numpties like me who just want to have a bit of fun.
(Right, I've got my tin hat on and i'm ready for the onslaught.............)
The red flags were frustrating, most I've ever seen on a trackday. But I found the congestion pretty frustrating too. I've since gone through my videos - I did 7 sessions - well over 20 minutes in some cases - and I only had a single uninterrupted lap all day. If anything, I found just the number of cars on track more of an issue than them being race cars or otherwise. Not to say I didn't enjoy the day - I did - but it would have been nice to have some more clear air to work with and less sessions interrupted by red flags.
With regards to race cars though - I generally don't have an issue. It's always interesting to follow a Ginetta or club racer for as along as I can and see what I can learn. And whilst it's against the rules as such for them to overtake in corners/braking zones, I'm generally aware of what's behind me and make sure if I see a race car approaching in my mirrors, I position myself well out of their way so if they are going to do that, it's on my terms.
I do wonder how the day would have played out though if there were just 5 or 6 less cars on track at any time. I've always found MSV and BMW Car Club days to be quite well managed with regards to numbers. I guess you either get lucky with red flags or you don't, depending on who turns up. As I say, I don't think this is solely a race car issue - race cars need to be reliable and need to stay on the black stuff to win races after all.
I see Donington mentioned a lot in this thread. It’s the only circuit I’ve come across which doesn’t offer a test day on the Friday before a race weekend. Which forces race cars to book in to the Friday track day.
Generally as a racer I’d much rather test on a test day and avoid track days. However the organisers don’t always make this easy or even possible. The price of a test day seems to have gone astronomical this year, despite the fact there are often more cars booked than a track day. It’s just the usual ‘Motorsport tax’ and if it continues it’ll push more to track days.
Generally as a racer I’d much rather test on a test day and avoid track days. However the organisers don’t always make this easy or even possible. The price of a test day seems to have gone astronomical this year, despite the fact there are often more cars booked than a track day. It’s just the usual ‘Motorsport tax’ and if it continues it’ll push more to track days.
fesuvious said:
As somebody who attends track days in both,
This is a driving standards issue not a car issue.
It is an issue born from deficiences involving manners, respect, ego, testosterone and tttishness.
Not the car
Agree 100%This is a driving standards issue not a car issue.
It is an issue born from deficiences involving manners, respect, ego, testosterone and t
ttishness.Not the car
There are normally a few radicals on our local trackdays. I’ve also done them (driving a clio) with mclaren p1’s and the like and, once, a ferrari 333sp.
The only problem is when you get someone doing an arrive and drive in a radical and they are overtaking on the apex inside the 50m board. This is usually a black flag for them and a word from the CoC.
To be honest I have more of an issue with people turning up on eBay s
tters with reasonable straight line speed but no idea of what constitutes a racing line and can’t last 2-3 laps without breaking down. These drivers are discourteous, make following them very frustrating, then cause a red flag. I try to do test days over track days but agree with earlier posters about the price of test days. At a Donnington test recently, MSV even took 5 mins off everyone's session (we normally only get 4 anyway - at > £3/min) so they could squeeze an additional 'extra' session they charged separately (and exhorbitantly) for. This is on top of the evening track day session they had already scheduled!
I usually do the odd track day out of season, and would say the problems come from the inconsiderate drivers rather than the type of car. I have seen plenty of stripped out eBay specials in the gravel. Souped up Jap turbos blow their engines dumping oil half way round the circuit. Also my pet peeve, point and squirt heros that refuse to back out on the straight, and wonder why you are up on them in every corner.
I usually do the odd track day out of season, and would say the problems come from the inconsiderate drivers rather than the type of car. I have seen plenty of stripped out eBay specials in the gravel. Souped up Jap turbos blow their engines dumping oil half way round the circuit. Also my pet peeve, point and squirt heros that refuse to back out on the straight, and wonder why you are up on them in every corner.
I voted no, they should not be banned but I have to say there must be a strict understanding that it isn't a test session and to respect the variation of driving skills of the rest of the field.
Also, no slicks.
I could imagine if left open to abuse, race car drivers would abuse it and it wouldn't be fair on the novices who simply want a bit of fun.
Also, no slicks.
I could imagine if left open to abuse, race car drivers would abuse it and it wouldn't be fair on the novices who simply want a bit of fun.
Odd that the vote seems to be saying to 'NO' yet the comments are largely 'YES'
Im in the yes camp, for cars that are running full aero or part of a race series. I have done a few now where i've literally jumped out of my skin as full blow racing cars have over taken me on bends at very high speed due to simply being frustrated at my comparatively slow cornering speeds. Its down right dangerous
Im in the yes camp, for cars that are running full aero or part of a race series. I have done a few now where i've literally jumped out of my skin as full blow racing cars have over taken me on bends at very high speed due to simply being frustrated at my comparatively slow cornering speeds. Its down right dangerous
fesuvious said:
As somebody who attends track days in both,
This is a driving standards issue not a car issue.
It is an issue born from deficiences involving manners, respect, ego, testosterone and tttishness.
Not the car
Absolutely this. If people in both types of cars used their mirrors and used some basic on track courtesy it would be fine. This is a driving standards issue not a car issue.
It is an issue born from deficiences involving manners, respect, ego, testosterone and t
ttishness.Not the car
I attended the day in question (blue BMW M135i, maybe you saw me, I wouldn't have been going that fast 😆), and I have to agree that it was one of the most disrupted days I've done.
I don't think it helped that the track surface was wet for the first few hours. Which I quite enjoyed as it was really quiet, most of the race and highly modified cars seemed to stay off track and it was left for those of us driving our road cars to enjoy. Doesn't seem that intuitive that those of in cars we were (hopefully) driving home that evening were willing to go out in the more risky damp conditions, but there you go.
Once it had dried out it became very busy, presumably as people had been sitting on their hands for almost 2 hours everybody wanted to make up for lost time. So in short I don't think the rain-delayed start (self imposed by many) and subsequent rush for track time helped.
I think the first red was caused by the car in the garage next to mine (garage 12) which was a Ginetta Jr. The lad driving it had somebody there giving him tuition.
However within about 15 minutes of them going out on to the now dry track he was in the gravel at Coppice, with the rear suspension damaged and an obvious tyre mark on the door, so it seems safe to asume he had a coming together with somebody. I've no idea which driver is to blame for the contact.
What I would say about this incident is that while it's fustrating to lose track time due to people pushing their race cars to the limit and ending up in the gravel, it's unacceptable for them (or anybody else) to be making contact with other vehicles. Fortunately that was the only collision between vehicles (that I'm aware of) on the day.
The racing phrase that yellows breed yellows definitely applies to track days. Once the track has been closed due to whatever incident there's a pitlane full of drivers waiting to go out, and with many cars in close proximity and jostling for position as the faster cars make it through the slower traffic, inevitibely there are more incidents.
We lost most of the half hour before lunch due to one red flag around 12:00 which had a slightly lenthy clean up time then leading to another only a few minutes after the track had re-opened at about 12:10.
Personally I wouldn't want to "ban" race cars, but I think people attending a general track day in their race car really need to keep in mind what the purpose of the day is.
If you can't accomplish what you want to within the strict rules and "etiquette" of a track day then maybe it's not the event for you.
On a day at Snetterton which featured a lot of Ginetta G40 race cars; the organisers pulled them all into the briefing room for a bit of a dressing down. The day went more smoothly after that, so maybe the TDOs need to be more pro-active in laying down the law to drivers who are pushing the limits. For the sake of all our enjoyment.
I don't think it helped that the track surface was wet for the first few hours. Which I quite enjoyed as it was really quiet, most of the race and highly modified cars seemed to stay off track and it was left for those of us driving our road cars to enjoy. Doesn't seem that intuitive that those of in cars we were (hopefully) driving home that evening were willing to go out in the more risky damp conditions, but there you go.
Once it had dried out it became very busy, presumably as people had been sitting on their hands for almost 2 hours everybody wanted to make up for lost time. So in short I don't think the rain-delayed start (self imposed by many) and subsequent rush for track time helped.
I think the first red was caused by the car in the garage next to mine (garage 12) which was a Ginetta Jr. The lad driving it had somebody there giving him tuition.
However within about 15 minutes of them going out on to the now dry track he was in the gravel at Coppice, with the rear suspension damaged and an obvious tyre mark on the door, so it seems safe to asume he had a coming together with somebody. I've no idea which driver is to blame for the contact.
What I would say about this incident is that while it's fustrating to lose track time due to people pushing their race cars to the limit and ending up in the gravel, it's unacceptable for them (or anybody else) to be making contact with other vehicles. Fortunately that was the only collision between vehicles (that I'm aware of) on the day.
The racing phrase that yellows breed yellows definitely applies to track days. Once the track has been closed due to whatever incident there's a pitlane full of drivers waiting to go out, and with many cars in close proximity and jostling for position as the faster cars make it through the slower traffic, inevitibely there are more incidents.
We lost most of the half hour before lunch due to one red flag around 12:00 which had a slightly lenthy clean up time then leading to another only a few minutes after the track had re-opened at about 12:10.
Personally I wouldn't want to "ban" race cars, but I think people attending a general track day in their race car really need to keep in mind what the purpose of the day is.
If you can't accomplish what you want to within the strict rules and "etiquette" of a track day then maybe it's not the event for you.
On a day at Snetterton which featured a lot of Ginetta G40 race cars; the organisers pulled them all into the briefing room for a bit of a dressing down. The day went more smoothly after that, so maybe the TDOs need to be more pro-active in laying down the law to drivers who are pushing the limits. For the sake of all our enjoyment.
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