Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Poll: Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Total Members Polled: 300
Discussion
andyhatton said:
I attended the day in question (blue BMW M135i, maybe you saw me, I wouldn't have been going that fast ??), and I have to agree that it was one of the most disrupted days I've done.
I don't think it helped that the track surface was wet for the first few hours. Which I quite enjoyed as it was really quiet, most of the race and highly modified cars seemed to stay off track and it was left for those of us driving our road cars to enjoy. Doesn't seem that intuitive that those of in cars we were (hopefully) driving home that evening were willing to go out in the more risky damp conditions, but there you go.
Once it had dried out it became very busy, presumably as people had been sitting on their hands for almost 2 hours everybody wanted to make up for lost time. So in short I don't think the rain-delayed start (self imposed by many) and subsequent rush for track time helped.
I think the first red was caused by the car in the garage next to mine (garage 12) which was a Ginetta Jr. The lad driving it had somebody there giving him tuition.
However within about 15 minutes of them going out on to the now dry track he was in the gravel at Coppice, with the rear suspension damaged and an obvious tyre mark on the door, so it seems safe to asume he had a coming together with somebody. I've no idea which driver is to blame for the contact.
What I would say about this incident is that while it's fustrating to lose track time due to people pushing their race cars to the limit and ending up in the gravel, it's unacceptable for them (or anybody else) to be making contact with other vehicles. Fortunately that was the only collision between vehicles (that I'm aware of) on the day.
The racing phrase that yellows breed yellows definitely applies to track days. Once the track has been closed due to whatever incident there's a pitlane full of drivers waiting to go out, and with many cars in close proximity and jostling for position as the faster cars make it through the slower traffic, inevitibely there are more incidents.
We lost most of the half hour before lunch due to one red flag around 12:00 which had a slightly lenthy clean up time then leading to another only a few minutes after the track had re-opened at about 12:10.
Personally I wouldn't want to "ban" race cars, but I think people attending a general track day in their race car really need to keep in mind what the purpose of the day is.
If you can't accomplish what you want to within the strict rules and "etiquette" of a track day then maybe it's not the event for you.
On a day at Snetterton which featured a lot of Ginetta G40 race cars; the organisers pulled them all into the briefing room for a bit of a dressing down. The day went more smoothly after that, so maybe the TDOs need to be more pro-active in laying down the law to drivers who are pushing the limits. For the sake of all our enjoyment.
I think I just missed that one. Big cloud of dust on the run up to coppice, Ginetta in the gravel it was a black polo on the right hand side of the track. Didn't realise that there had been a coming together.I don't think it helped that the track surface was wet for the first few hours. Which I quite enjoyed as it was really quiet, most of the race and highly modified cars seemed to stay off track and it was left for those of us driving our road cars to enjoy. Doesn't seem that intuitive that those of in cars we were (hopefully) driving home that evening were willing to go out in the more risky damp conditions, but there you go.
Once it had dried out it became very busy, presumably as people had been sitting on their hands for almost 2 hours everybody wanted to make up for lost time. So in short I don't think the rain-delayed start (self imposed by many) and subsequent rush for track time helped.
I think the first red was caused by the car in the garage next to mine (garage 12) which was a Ginetta Jr. The lad driving it had somebody there giving him tuition.
However within about 15 minutes of them going out on to the now dry track he was in the gravel at Coppice, with the rear suspension damaged and an obvious tyre mark on the door, so it seems safe to asume he had a coming together with somebody. I've no idea which driver is to blame for the contact.
What I would say about this incident is that while it's fustrating to lose track time due to people pushing their race cars to the limit and ending up in the gravel, it's unacceptable for them (or anybody else) to be making contact with other vehicles. Fortunately that was the only collision between vehicles (that I'm aware of) on the day.
The racing phrase that yellows breed yellows definitely applies to track days. Once the track has been closed due to whatever incident there's a pitlane full of drivers waiting to go out, and with many cars in close proximity and jostling for position as the faster cars make it through the slower traffic, inevitibely there are more incidents.
We lost most of the half hour before lunch due to one red flag around 12:00 which had a slightly lenthy clean up time then leading to another only a few minutes after the track had re-opened at about 12:10.
Personally I wouldn't want to "ban" race cars, but I think people attending a general track day in their race car really need to keep in mind what the purpose of the day is.
If you can't accomplish what you want to within the strict rules and "etiquette" of a track day then maybe it's not the event for you.
On a day at Snetterton which featured a lot of Ginetta G40 race cars; the organisers pulled them all into the briefing room for a bit of a dressing down. The day went more smoothly after that, so maybe the TDOs need to be more pro-active in laying down the law to drivers who are pushing the limits. For the sake of all our enjoyment.
I don't remember seeing you on the track - deffo remember the white 1-series and the black one with race livery. I was in the dark blue E30.
Chr1sch said:
Odd that the vote seems to be saying to 'NO' yet the comments are largely 'YES'
Im in the yes camp, for cars that are running full aero or part of a race series. I have done a few now where i've literally jumped out of my skin as full blow racing cars have over taken me on bends at very high speed due to simply being frustrated at my comparatively slow cornering speeds. Its down right dangerous
That's not on if they had only just arrived behind you on that corner, so there had been no straights for you to let them past on yet.Im in the yes camp, for cars that are running full aero or part of a race series. I have done a few now where i've literally jumped out of my skin as full blow racing cars have over taken me on bends at very high speed due to simply being frustrated at my comparatively slow cornering speeds. Its down right dangerous
Dunc.
Banning all race cars is fine but what about other cars that cause problems?
Lets ban all French tat for starters, too unreliable and invariably driven by a "certain type".
Anything with aero is too fast and caterfields tend to be too fast and unreliable so biff them as well.
Turbo nutter barges are fast on the straights but roadblocks on the corners so they have to go and standard road cars just get in the way everywhere so no need for them.
I think that's the problem solved
.
Lets ban all French tat for starters, too unreliable and invariably driven by a "certain type".
Anything with aero is too fast and caterfields tend to be too fast and unreliable so biff them as well.
Turbo nutter barges are fast on the straights but roadblocks on the corners so they have to go and standard road cars just get in the way everywhere so no need for them.
I think that's the problem solved
.They should ban them purely so that I don't get reminded how poor I am as I drive down the pits.
Tbh most of the race lads I've seen have been pretty good.
Donington is always w
k for stoppages regardless of who's on track imo. The evening sessions they do are a complete write off given past experiences.
Tbh most of the race lads I've seen have been pretty good.
Donington is always w
k for stoppages regardless of who's on track imo. The evening sessions they do are a complete write off given past experiences. I’m surprised the vote is so close to 50/50.
I sometimes take my racing saloon car to track days, I don’t drive any differently to when I take one of my road or track cars to a track day.
Anyone with a race licence should treat fellow track day drivers with a wide berth as you have no idea what level they are at.
A track day is completely different from racing and as such you need to give people room / respect.
I sometimes take my racing saloon car to track days, I don’t drive any differently to when I take one of my road or track cars to a track day.
Anyone with a race licence should treat fellow track day drivers with a wide berth as you have no idea what level they are at.
A track day is completely different from racing and as such you need to give people room / respect.
rallycross said:
I’m surprised the vote is so close to 50/50.
I sometimes take my racing saloon car to track days, I don’t drive any differently to when I take one of my road or track cars to a track day.
Anyone with a race licence should treat fellow track day drivers with a wide berth as you have no idea what level they are at.
A track day is completely different from racing and as such you need to give people room / respect.
At the ones I have been at they tend to drive / pass very closely to track day road cars, unfortunately.I sometimes take my racing saloon car to track days, I don’t drive any differently to when I take one of my road or track cars to a track day.
Anyone with a race licence should treat fellow track day drivers with a wide berth as you have no idea what level they are at.
A track day is completely different from racing and as such you need to give people room / respect.
All those saying race cars should be pushed into test days would love the experience of a Silverstone test day in the summer. Did one once, spent the entire day getting out of the way of radicals and Porsche supercup cars. Complete and utter waste of money. Thing is it happens to all of us sometimes.
For those commenting on Donny, I also had one of my clearest sessions ever there on an evening track day. Everyone got fed up and left early, the last half our was just myself and an elise pounding round. Strangely for some reason it's not unusual for many people to go home early from trackdays. Never understood that, it costs a lot of money and your time to attend these events, make use of every minute you can out there.
I voted no as fundamentally the organisers need the revenue as another posted stated, restricting things more will only make this game even more expensive than it has already become over the years.
For those commenting on Donny, I also had one of my clearest sessions ever there on an evening track day. Everyone got fed up and left early, the last half our was just myself and an elise pounding round. Strangely for some reason it's not unusual for many people to go home early from trackdays. Never understood that, it costs a lot of money and your time to attend these events, make use of every minute you can out there.
I voted no as fundamentally the organisers need the revenue as another posted stated, restricting things more will only make this game even more expensive than it has already become over the years.
NJH said:
All those saying race cars should be pushed into test days would love the experience of a Silverstone test day in the summer. Did one once, spent the entire day getting out of the way of radicals and Porsche supercup cars. Complete and utter waste of money. Thing is it happens to all of us sometimes.
For those commenting on Donny, I also had one of my clearest sessions ever there on an evening track day. Everyone got fed up and left early, the last half our was just myself and an elise pounding round. Strangely for some reason it's not unusual for many people to go home early from trackdays. Never understood that, it costs a lot of money and your time to attend these events, make use of every minute you can out there.
I voted no as fundamentally the organisers need the revenue as another posted stated, restricting things more will only make this game even more expensive than it has already become over the years.
I think for a lot of people, they simply don't care if their 4hr trackday lasts 3hrs or 2hrs as 100-200 pound to many is a fairly insignificant cost in terms of overall annual motoring costs for many regular trackday attendees. Either that, or they're busy. For some evening ones, where I have a fair journey home, I need to leave sharp to get home at a sensible hour.For those commenting on Donny, I also had one of my clearest sessions ever there on an evening track day. Everyone got fed up and left early, the last half our was just myself and an elise pounding round. Strangely for some reason it's not unusual for many people to go home early from trackdays. Never understood that, it costs a lot of money and your time to attend these events, make use of every minute you can out there.
I voted no as fundamentally the organisers need the revenue as another posted stated, restricting things more will only make this game even more expensive than it has already become over the years.
Bit of an alternative way to look at it but surely the non-race drivers actually benefit from having the race drivers there in terms of learning lines and techniques?
In all sports practising with a superior opponent is a benefit (not saying all the race drivers are better but some are likely to be).
Dunc.
In all sports practising with a superior opponent is a benefit (not saying all the race drivers are better but some are likely to be).
Dunc.
NJH said:
All those saying race cars should be pushed into test days would love the experience of a Silverstone test day in the summer. Did one once, spent the entire day getting out of the way of radicals and Porsche supercup cars. Complete and utter waste of money. Thing is it happens to all of us sometimes.
I did one via Goldtrack a few years ago, it was awesome. out of about 100 cars there were just 2 of us with number plates and most were either GT cars, Clio cup cars or le mans classics testing on that day. I got about 80 laps in on the international circuit and saw zero di*kish behaviour. Cant remember having many flags out either. Loads of instructors about and proper team set-ups. As the poster above says, it's great to be on with drivers much better than you, can learn loads. it is also astonishing how much faster a real 60's GT40 is than a TVR from the 90's. McLaren were also testing their GT car, saw that go flying by quite a few times. Having done a day at Bedford in March I wouldn't say ban race cars, group cars into power categories maybe and ensure novices get extra guidance.
I was in my 140hp mx5 getting frustrated with a newish rs6 in front that I got stuck behind in the corners which then pissed off on the straights. He didn't get the hint so in the end I dropped back into a gap.
There was a few guys who overtook on bends (mix of road and track cars) and one idiot who let me by on a quick left hander but then took the racing line, making for a very uncomfortable moment for myself.
There was only two red flags all day (minimal gravel at Bedford though) and one was quite lengthy (bloke in a stances golf ran over something or ran out of talent in the fast chicane and removed his sump on the grass) but it was a really great day in the end and thanks to rain the track with pretty much empty for the last hour.
I was in my 140hp mx5 getting frustrated with a newish rs6 in front that I got stuck behind in the corners which then pissed off on the straights. He didn't get the hint so in the end I dropped back into a gap.
There was a few guys who overtook on bends (mix of road and track cars) and one idiot who let me by on a quick left hander but then took the racing line, making for a very uncomfortable moment for myself.
There was only two red flags all day (minimal gravel at Bedford though) and one was quite lengthy (bloke in a stances golf ran over something or ran out of talent in the fast chicane and removed his sump on the grass) but it was a really great day in the end and thanks to rain the track with pretty much empty for the last hour.
dunc_sx said:
Bit of an alternative way to look at it but surely the non-race drivers actually benefit from having the race drivers there in terms of learning lines and techniques?
In all sports practising with a superior opponent is a benefit (not saying all the race drivers are better but some are likely to be).
Dunc.
Not really because you can't stay behind a much faster car for long nor can you use the same braking points or speed of a fully prepped car? Might pick up some lines maybe...In all sports practising with a superior opponent is a benefit (not saying all the race drivers are better but some are likely to be).
Dunc.
Edited by meatballs on Sunday 8th September 23:46
meatballs said:
dunc_sx said:
Bit of an alternative way to look at it but surely the non-race drivers actually benefit from having the race drivers there in terms of learning lines and techniques?
In all sports practising with a superior opponent is a benefit (not saying all the race drivers are better but some are likely to be).
Dunc.
Not really because you can't stay behind a much faster car for long nor can you use the same braking points or speed of a fully prepped car? Might pick up some lines maybe...In all sports practising with a superior opponent is a benefit (not saying all the race drivers are better but some are likely to be).
Dunc.
Edited by meatballs on Sunday 8th September 23:46
Once you've gone off line to let 3 cars past there are more still trying and coming through so you then can't get back over to take the proper line. If you decide to force yourself back against the constant flow you risk an accident.
It's a simple case of too many cars and drivers at opposite ends of the spectrum and everything in between, the solution has already been mentioned - put them into 3 different categories per hour like we used to.
I'm an amateur racer that started off as a track day enthusiast.
The lack of allowable competition on a track day 'forced' me into racing!
I'm on a very small budget for racing and I use trackdays to test because they are cheaper than test days.
I usually do a track day at the start of the season to 'shake down the car' because i can't do that on the road. this is usually at much slower than racing speeds, by the nature of a shakedown sometimes cars have problems.
You can never set 'representative' lap times on a track day because of traffic so its more about seat time, perfecting lines, tweaking set up etc. If everyone focused on that and not catching up with XX car or set a time faster than YY person, trackdays would better for it.
If the TDO police it well and are firm in the briefing it usually sets a good tone for the day.
A question that has been asked at briefing I remember: 'How many of you are racing drivers?' We all feel good putting our hand up to that question, only to be told that we get a shorter leash and we should know better and that's our warning, any misbehaving and you are done for the day. Then you feel every one scowl at you!
The lack of allowable competition on a track day 'forced' me into racing!
I'm on a very small budget for racing and I use trackdays to test because they are cheaper than test days.
I usually do a track day at the start of the season to 'shake down the car' because i can't do that on the road. this is usually at much slower than racing speeds, by the nature of a shakedown sometimes cars have problems.
You can never set 'representative' lap times on a track day because of traffic so its more about seat time, perfecting lines, tweaking set up etc. If everyone focused on that and not catching up with XX car or set a time faster than YY person, trackdays would better for it.
If the TDO police it well and are firm in the briefing it usually sets a good tone for the day.
A question that has been asked at briefing I remember: 'How many of you are racing drivers?' We all feel good putting our hand up to that question, only to be told that we get a shorter leash and we should know better and that's our warning, any misbehaving and you are done for the day. Then you feel every one scowl at you!
I'd rather be on a track with an actual racer that's probably going to have a decent awareness of the people around them than have-a-go-harry in his leased diesel rep that's trying to wedge it up the inside in a corner thinking he's playing Forza - I've always given people a very wide berth if we've taken a racer because it's a stload of time and money compared to a road car if some numpty wanders into you.
As for breakdowns, etc - I'd warrant most race cars have way more maintenance than most things on the track...
tload of time and money compared to a road car if some numpty wanders into you.As for breakdowns, etc - I'd warrant most race cars have way more maintenance than most things on the track...
Edited by PhillipM on Tuesday 10th September 01:17
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