Should race cars be banned from attending track days?

[Tommo Two]

Chuck328 said:

The real question is how many (if any) TDOs/track management are reading this topic?

I would imagine it won't have gone unnoticed!

I was at a circuit days briefing at a Silverstone trackday, when we were told:

'if there is a problem or someone not following the rules, come and talk to us then we can deal with it. Dont keep it to yourself then moan about it on pistonheads later!'

It got a little titter from the crowd! And they raise a good point

An interesting question would be:
How many people have seen something stupid on a trackday? And how many of you have reported it to a TDO?

I've seen lots of stupid things and I never bother reporting them, an I'm trying to think why I don't?

[meatballs]

A) sometimes feels a bit petty
B) forget about it after a few laps
C) walk over to the organiser from parking area is too long
D) maybe not sure of the make/model of the car
E) observed it happening to someone else so let them chose to report it or not
F) other social anxieties

[Evoluzione]

Tommo Two said:

I would imagine it won't have gone unnoticed!

I was at a circuit days briefing at a Silverstone trackday, when we were told:

'if there is a problem or someone not following the rules, come and talk to us then we can deal with it. Dont keep it to yourself then moan about it on pistonheads later!'

It got a little titter from the crowd! And they raise a good point

An interesting question would be:
How many people have seen something stupid on a trackday? And how many of you have reported it to a TDO?

I've seen lots of stupid things and I never bother reporting them, an I'm trying to think why I don't?

There are different levels of stupidity and repetition, anyone voting no and thinking everything is ok has not been on any of the really bad ones that some of us have. There does seem to be a recurring theme of Donington on a Thursday before a race as being the worst. I've been doing trackdays on and off for nearly 20yrs now and these are the poorest I have seen hence me complaining to the organisers and posting on here which is something i've never done before.
I was so incensed afterwards that I left it a week to calm down and gather my thoughts before complaining!
I felt embarrassed that i'd invited friends (who I owed favours to) to travel for hours to get there and back and angry afterwards. That is not what I want to be feeling after what is supposed to be an enjoyable Summers evening.

I wondered how long it would be before someone would point that ^ out and to be fair it's taken a while. They've been saying it at trackdays for years so it isn't because of this thread. It only works if one or two distinctive and easily identifiable cars at at it constantly, but when it's 5 Caterhams per lap + others you don't stand a chance. Should we be driving around with a notebook writing them all down or taking pics of them? Race cars have no plates, how do you ID one Caterham from another? How do you remember 7 cars to be reeled off later when you're supposed to be concentrating on driving?
The other thing is this, they've ruined the experience to such a degree by repeatedly getting the track closed that there isn't actually the time to wander about looking for someone to complain to.
I brimmed the tank with about £60 before we left thinking it would be ok for 2 hrs and taking a jerry can just in case, we didn't even use 1/4 of a tank, the track was closed for nearly as much time as it was open!

[andyhatton]

Tommo Two said:

An interesting question would be:
How many people have seen something stupid on a trackday? And how many of you have reported it to a TDO?

I've seen lots of stupid things and I never bother reporting them, an I'm trying to think why I don't?

Yup this applies to me too.

Evoluzione said:

I brimmed the tank with about £60 before we left thinking it would be ok for 2 hrs and taking a jerry can just in case, we didn't even use 1/4 of a tank, the track was closed for nearly as much time as it was open!

Personally I got in 68 laps.
I did one on the bank holiday Friday 19th April and got in 116 laps.
And the one before that was Friday 7th September which I got in just over 100 laps.

[Tommo Two]

Evoluzione said:

Tommo Two said:

I would imagine it won't have gone unnoticed!

'if there is a problem or someone not following the rules, come and talk to us then we can deal with it. Dont keep it to yourself then moan about it on pistonheads later!'

I wondered how long it would be before someone would point that ^ out and to be fair it's taken a while.

(I trimmed the quoted posts)

The point I was making was PH was referenced in a briefing, so TDO do frequent this section and will probably be aware of this thread.

I should have probably just said Iwas at a briefing and threads on PH were mentioned in that breifing. I was by no means having a pop, just quoting what the TDO said.

[IdiotRace]

It's funny how much Donnington has come up in this thread, I've been there 3 times. 1st time it was full of caterham academy drivers which made it difficult to get into any sort of rhythm. 2nd time we had 9 red flags before the afternoon and ended up getting a bking during the break, but the afternoon session cleared up and was pretty enjoyable.

3rd time, errr I spun off at crainers like a tt due to being way too nervous and not being smart enough to tell the instructor that I was finding it a bit difficult to concentrate on his instructions and watch my mirrors constantly. As there was quite a bit of race stuff in the paddock, ex-wtcc cars, radicals, loads of caterhams etc. Again I've got no one else to blame but myself

I love the track but it does seem to have a bit of a rep and I guess it was a bit of a shock coming from the previous day I did which was at Bedford where hardly any cars turned up.

I mean I don't mind the odd racecar but it's a bit much when they outnumber road/trackcars I think.

[Evoluzione]

andyhatton said:

Tommo Two said:

An interesting question would be:
How many people have seen something stupid on a trackday? And how many of you have reported it to a TDO?

I've seen lots of stupid things and I never bother reporting them, an I'm trying to think why I don't?

Yup this applies to me too.

Evoluzione said:

I brimmed the tank with about £60 before we left thinking it would be ok for 2 hrs and taking a jerry can just in case, we didn't even use 1/4 of a tank, the track was closed for nearly as much time as it was open!

Personally I got in 68 laps.
I did one on the bank holiday Friday 19th April and got in 116 laps.
And the one before that was Friday 7th September which I got in just over 100 laps.

Thanks for the fascinating anecdote.
Was there actually a point to it?

[Evoluzione]

Tommo Two said:

Evoluzione said:

Tommo Two said:

I would imagine it won't have gone unnoticed!

'if there is a problem or someone not following the rules, come and talk to us then we can deal with it. Dont keep it to yourself then moan about it on pistonheads later!'

I wondered how long it would be before someone would point that ^ out and to be fair it's taken a while.

(I trimmed the quoted posts)

The point I was making was PH was referenced in a briefing, so TDO do frequent this section and will probably be aware of this thread.

I should have probably just said Iwas at a briefing and threads on PH were mentioned in that breifing. I was by no means having a pop, just quoting what the TDO said.

Yes you've trimmed all the supporting info from it. My point to you is this - it's nothing new, they've been saying that on drivers briefings for years, of course they read this, if they don't it'll get back to them somehow.

[ribiero]

Didn't we have this thread a month or so back with a longer Poll?

Maybe a TDO should start a "no race cars" day, is there one already?

what should it be called?

"novice-day?"
"the un-radical club"
"the cage free club"
"give my apex back?"
"no lunges before lunch?"

Any other rules? people who cause red flags = firing squad? no direzza's allowed?

[andyhatton]

ribiero said:

Maybe a TDO should start a "no race cars" day, is there one already?

MSV do them, but not very frequently

[dunc_sx]

ribiero said:

Maybe a TDO should start a "no race cars" day, is there one already?

Good idea What if a race driver sneaks on in a road car/track car on though? Perhaps they could to test anyone attending on a simulator to check they aren't too fast?

Dunc.

[NJH]

gavgavgav said:

NJH said:

All those saying race cars should be pushed into test days would love the experience of a Silverstone test day in the summer. Did one once, spent the entire day getting out of the way of radicals and Porsche supercup cars. Complete and utter waste of money. Thing is it happens to all of us sometimes.

I did one via Goldtrack a few years ago, it was awesome. out of about 100 cars there were just 2 of us with number plates and most were either GT cars, Clio cup cars or le mans classics testing on that day. I got about 80 laps in on the international circuit and saw zero di*kish behaviour. Cant remember having many flags out either. Loads of instructors about and proper team set-ups. As the poster above says, it's great to be on with drivers much better than you, can learn loads. it is also astonishing how much faster a real 60's GT40 is than a TVR from the 90's. McLaren were also testing their GT car, saw that go flying by quite a few times.

Goldtrack trackdays at Silverstone are fantastic. Test days there something very different. There is a very good reason why you see so many club racers doing such events, you have a real chance of getting some good laps in rather than being continually dive bombed by professional racers and radicals who just expect you to have got out of the way by the time their car is on the apex. There is also the mr Lockie factor, amazing reputation as an instructor and probably the best there is to follow on track. He was tyre testing at Thruxton the other year and my God he had that 968 dancing around, was awesome to see up close.

[Fonzey]

Tommo Two said:

An interesting question would be:
How many people have seen something stupid on a trackday? And how many of you have reported it to a TDO?

I've seen lots of stupid things and I never bother reporting them, an I'm trying to think why I don't?

I've never found the need to complain because I rarely see repeat stupid behaviour, I've had some really close calls before due to (other people's) lack of awareness but it's clearly been a mistake and not a nasty racecar driver bullying me.

For stuff that has been repeat behaviour, it's just been annoying and not really dangerous. Example at my last Javelin day a blue Clio 197/200 thing (funnily enough with names on the window, other race-car like livery) was holding up a massive queue for many laps, eventually started pulling over - but he/she would pin it down the straights and then dive off to the side about 30m short of the braking zone leaving no time to get round safely. Annoying, but not really worth reporting because the chance of me being behind that specific car on circuit again was just unlikely - so got on with my day. Perhaps that's the wrong attitude, if somebody reported him/her for this at 09:30 it could have "fixed" the issue for everybody for the entire day.

As for the poll, I'm all up for racecars on track - but they should be judged more harshly than most and not given much benefit of the doubt. If they're spinning into the gravel, then sin-bin them - they should know better.

The reliability thing is a concern because most of them use trackdays to "shake down" whereas road cars are more likely to have had their niggles ironed out on the road. Generally a reliability problem only disrupts once or twice, so usually doesn't cost a huge amount of track time.

[andye30m3]

It's been ages since I've done a trackday, other than the Donington Friday before race weekend that may as well just be called a test day. I very nearly booked on to a evening in the GT3 at brands but when up to watch a friend a few weeks before and decided it wasn't worth the risk especially after watching a guy in a M4 road car try trying to out brake a really nice mk 1 or 2 escort into Clearways and just smashed into the side of it.

Who polices the track days is it the organizers themselves? and if so in a competitive market place are they the best people to be doing so as they're no doubt concerned about upsetting customers.

Maybe the circuit should have someone in place to monitor this instead.

I also don't think race cars are an issue if driven 1/2 sensibly, by far the worse trackday I've been on for damage was with a well respected organizer and it saw at least 2 crashed 911 GT3's one was a matter of months old as well as a very badly damaged 911 GT2 and I believe a R8 got caught up in one of the accidents. None of these cars were race cars.

[Altrezia]

As others have said - this is a people issue not a car issue. All trackdays have rules on overtaking, on agressive driving etc. People who break those rules are the issue, not the car they're in.

I use my race car on trackdays (both because sometimes it's better than testing, other times because why would I take my road car when I have a race car?). I've seen more red flags from normal cars going off or breaking than race cars - perhaps I've just been lucky though.

What makes a race car a race car, over a "track car". A lot of people have snotters with cages for trackdays - do they count?

I sometimes take my road car to a trackday and I don't really drive any differently in that, other than having a few horsepower less. Laptimes are pretty similar in both.. Should I be banned in both my cars?

Just do a trackday and be careful of those around you. It's not rocket science. If you keep being overtaken, perhaps look at your own lines or look into tuition.

[Steve H]

Tommo Two said:

I was at a circuit days briefing at a Silverstone trackday, when we were told:

'if there is a problem or someone not following the rules, come and talk to us then we can deal with it. Dont keep it to yourself then moan about it on pistonheads later!'

It got a little titter from the crowd! And they raise a good point

I usually say about Facebook rather than PH but that could well have been me .

andye30m3 said:

Who polices the track days is it the organizers themselves? and if so in a competitive market place are they the best people to be doing so as they're no doubt concerned about upsetting customers.

Maybe the circuit should have someone in place to monitor this instead.

Typically it is the circuit that monitors behaviour on track and they would then report it to the TDO for us to deal with. They have marshals on most corners so this makes sense but their primary job is monitoring safety, not driving standards.

This means that detailed reports from customers are very useful; I say detailed because if we're going to go and give some guy a bking or threaten to kick him off it's not much good if we're just told a red car overtook going into a corner, but we're not sure which corner......

Deniability is a real issue when dealing with these problems so as much information as possible is a big help, I've been to have a word with a few drivers in the past and it has made it a lot easier that when they have protested their innocence and I've been able to tell them I was instructing in the car that they cut up .

Regarding banning race cars I don't really see the point, there are arrogant overconfident race drivers for sure but the same goes for supercar drivers, hot hatch drivers, owners of a certain three lettered german make etc etc. Most of the guys that have these cars are great customers and play the game properly, we just need a bit of help in spotting the ones that don't and a bit of understanding from everyone that it's never as easy as it looks .

[1781cc]

I say yes, to a point, I don't mind people being there in race cars if they accept they are on a track day and treat all with respect.

Last year I was at Silverstone and had repeated issues with the c**t in the Litchfield Godzilla appearing up my arse on the straight and trying to flash me out of the way, getting so close before overtaking he was almost in the back of my car, I gave them plenty of space to overtake as per drivers briefing but I guess he thought I shouldn't have been there full stop.

I actually toyed with the idea of letting him crash into me, I wouldn't care about the loss of my car but I am sure he wouldn't have appreciated the cost of his carbon all over the race track

I usually try to be courteous and respectful of faster machinery, hold them up as little as possible, but some people feel we shouldn't be there.

[227bhp]

Altrezia said:

As others have said - this is a people issue not a car issue.

What makes a race car a race car, over a "track car". A lot of people have snotters with cages for trackdays - do they count?

Confusing post
It's the ego behind the wheel which takes over that is the issue.

[LightningMat]

meatballs said:

A) sometimes feels a bit petty
B) forget about it after a few laps
C) walk over to the organiser from parking area is too long
D) maybe not sure of the make/model of the car
E) observed it happening to someone else so let them chose to report it or not
F) other social anxieties

Pretty much all of the above... Have witnessed various levels of t**tish driving at every single track day I have been at for the past 12+ years. The worst has invariably been from people in 'fast' cars, many of which have been race cars...

The absolutely most dangerous towards other track users were a group of Clio cup racers at Rockingham a few years back (total disregard to the rules and other track users)... But I suppose if you have ever watched a Clio cup race, that won't be a great surprise!

[l354uge]

This popped up on Facebook, pretty much confirms what was said on here.