Should race cars be banned from attending track days?

[Altrezia]

227bhp said:

Confusing post
It's the ego behind the wheel which takes over that is the issue.

How's it confusing? I was asking what makes a race car a race car? If I take the stickers off my doors, it's just an elise with a cage. That's a "trackday car" and now fine on trackdays?

[tsp]

l354uge said:

This popped up on Facebook, pretty much confirms what was said on here.

Great to see a track day operator acknowledging the issue and acting on it. I will look out for opentrack days when I am next booking because of this comment.

[227bhp]

Altrezia said:

227bhp said:

Confusing post
It's the ego behind the wheel which takes over that is the issue.

How's it confusing? I was asking what makes a race car a race car? If I take the stickers off my doors, it's just an elise with a cage. That's a "trackday car" and now fine on trackdays?

The answer was in my second sentence.

[ribiero]

tsp said:

Great to see a track day operator acknowledging the issue and acting on it. I will look out for opentrack days when I am next booking because of this comment.

Am I being thick? not all caterhams are race cars (hardly any tbh) and those m2/m4's were track cars at most.

or is the issue "drivers being dicks regardless of what they drive?" in case spot on.

[Nickjd]

There are some contradictory comments here.

"Race cars should be judged more harshly."

"It's not for me to have to tell the TDO about poor driving"

[Docter Fox]

227bhp said:

Idiots can't spell Doctor.

Meow! Thankfully spelling a user name 'correctly' isn't a requirement on an internet forum, although deliberately choosing a letter out does have it's advantages when choosing a user name...

[fuchsiasteve]

I’m all for banning race cars from regular track days after two were too busy in their own private battle to see me on a cool down lap tucked in to the side of the track making my way back to the pits. The nob did £500 worth of damage to our car (damage to the wing, door and alloy wheel) and just shrugged his shoulders blaming me saying I moved out which I didn’t from the side. The over privileged two youngsters tried to pass me two abreast racing. Awful. The marshalls didn’t see the incident to top it off and the trackday organisers did sod all to sort the issue.

You have been warned. I’m Just thankful our car was cheap as if it we had been in something fancy like a Porsche I would have been seriously wanting to kick their arses!

It has put me off doing track days though as protocol wasn’t followed as they always say in the drivers briefing (wrist bands weren’t removed etc). A total joke really. You pays your money folks.....

Edited by fuchsiasteve on Wednesday 18th September 22:09

Edited by fuchsiasteve on Wednesday 18th September 22:12

[andyhatton]

fuchsiasteve said:

I’m all for banning race cars from regular track days after two were too busy in their own private battle to see me on a cool down lap tucked in to the side of the track making my way back to the pits. The nob did £500 worth of damage to our car (damage to the wing, door and alloy wheel) and just shrugged his shoulders blaming me saying I moved out which I didn’t from the side. The over privileged two youngsters tried to pass me two abreast racing. Awful. The marshalls didn’t see the incident to top it off and the trackday organisers did sod all to sort the issue.

You have been warned. I’m Just thankful our car was cheap as if it we had been in something fancy like a Porsche I would have been seriously wanting to kick their arses!

It has put me off doing track days though as protocol wasn’t followed as they always say in the drivers briefing (wrist bands weren’t removed etc). A total joke really. You pays your money folks.....

Edited by fuchsiasteve on Wednesday 18th September 22:09

Edited by fuchsiasteve on Wednesday 18th September 22:12

Who was the TDO?

[fuchsiasteve]

andyhatton said:

Who was the TDO?

It doesn’t matter the TDO was. My point is race cars and trackday road cars don’t mix well as we found. Just bare this in mind whenever you go on track and if your car is valuable get specialist track insurance.

We have done trackdays for 20 years up to that point without ever having an issue or collision. Over 30,000 track miles. In later years we have seen a steady rise of race cars using track days as a cheap test day. Sustaining the damage we did has curbed the number of trackdays we do now. Just took the edge of what was always, up until that day in question, a really enjoyable hobby.

[andyhatton]

fuchsiasteve said:

It doesn’t matter the TDO was. My point is race cars and trackday road cars don’t mix well as we found. Just bare this in mind whenever you go on track and if your car is valuable get specialist track insurance.

We have done trackdays for 20 years up to that point without ever having an issue or collision. Over 30,000 track miles. In later years we have seen a steady rise of race cars using track days as a cheap test day. Sustaining the damage we did has curbed the number of trackdays we do now. Just took the edge of what was always, up until that day in question, a really enjoyable hobby.

I think it does given that you state that they were informed and chose to take no action.
Customers may choose to give them a wide berth if they're known to run an anything-goes policy.
If they're an ATDO member then maybe a complaint is in order.

If customers don't take action noting will change, and the hobby will be diminished for everybody.

[itsallyellow]

I think that Brands Hatch this Tuesday summed this thread up perfectly.

73 cars on the track day!

Lots of them being Caterhams from the 270r series.

Most of them being normal ish road cars

A few outright race cars.

There were a good number of red flags and the driving standards were quite poor at times. However all the stoppages and poor driving that I witnessed were from the heavily modified road cars. All the race cars were driven well with appropriate attention being paid at all times. The road cars were driven brilliantly and made an effort to allow the quicker cars past. The issue was the modified track cars who wanted to try and race the race cars...

It’s not the type of car that is the issue but the type of person/driver!

Mike

[braddo]

I had a similar experience on a Brands evening track day. A bunch of Ford/VW guys were tts compared to everyone else - sheddy modified Audi A3 1.8Ts and S3s etc were slow and driven terribly. Current model Focus RSs also driven in a tt fashion.

The race cars were OK. For me, so far, Ginetta Juniors are the most problematic race cars. Not surprising, but still not acceptable!

[mpit]

Race cars are rarely the issue on track days.

I'm convinced that most issues are down to frustrations caused by people being held up.

I see it time and time again - fly up behind someone that is going significantly slower, they could have moved over instantly leaving minimal impact to both cars but instead they drive in their mirrors for at least another half a lap, if not more.

Now I've heard many times that "we've all paid the same money" etc. but consider it from the POV of the faster car. Even if it's just 1 in 10 cars you overtake, you spend most of your track time waiting to pass someone and that's no fun!

This leads to more agressive overtaking, driving closer to the car in front which is when people get upset either because someone had to force their way past into a corner. At least most racing drivers are fairly competent at driving like this.

[NJH]

That problem is nearly always caused by someone who refuses to ease off on a straight to allow a pass. Some people just can't seem to compute this issue despite being told repeatedly at briefings.

[MrC986]

Is it not also a problem that on TDs the general rule of overtaking solely on the straights on the left isn't being adhered to as well? I guess I've been spoilt by very well organised events from the likes of the BMW Car Club etc. who will quite happily warn a driver of poor standards/etiquette & if they don't listen, they're kicked off straight away.

[1781cc]

NJH said:

That problem is nearly always caused by someone who refuses to ease off on a straight to allow a pass. Some people just can't seem to compute this issue despite being told repeatedly at briefings.

Agree with this totally, my TT is way faster than the majority of BMW M3s and M4s around corners, but slower on the straights, will any of the buggers let me go? then I am stuffed up behind them in corners... when I do eventually get past I'm usually long gone after that. Its so frustrating, at somewhere like Bedford GT its awful, you can spend half the track bottled up behind someone with no traction or confidence

[Elderly]

NJH said:

That problem is nearly always caused by someone who refuses to ease off on a straight to allow a pass. Some people just can't seem to compute this issue despite being told repeatedly at briefings.

/\ This.

[Munter]

NJH said:

That problem is nearly always caused by someone who refuses to ease off on a straight to allow a pass. Some people just can't seem to compute this issue despite being told repeatedly at briefings.

Some of that is the quality of the briefing, that having been said 1000 times, slips a few words. But re-iterates the rule should be obeyed.

E.g. "Overtaking is on the left, by consent. If someone is faster over a lap than you, lift off on a straight and let them past. You'll know they are faster, because they were not in your mirrors a few corners ago, and they are now."

Overtaking is on the left. So I go left to consent to let people past? Or I pass people on the left? I guess I'll figure it out on track.

To lift off significantly I must be accelerating, so I get out of the corner, floor it to make a bit of space from the corner (safety first and all that), then let them past.

<driving>Ok I see a car behind me, but I get to the straight and get up to speed, lift off...and they never come past, then we're in a corner again. What the hell are they playing at.

Once they have those mistakes in their head, they are done. They are doing exactly what they think they were told and will defend it.

They need very explicit instructions.
Something like:
"On this track we let faster cars past. You'll know they are faster, because they were not in your mirrors a few corners ago, and they are in your mirrors as you exit the corner you are in. To let a car past, indicate right as you are exiting the corner, keep a neutral throttle until straight, while keeping a neutral throttle and exiting the corner move to the right hand side of the track, and when straight completely remove your foot from the accelerator. Your apex speed from the corner should be your max speed until the car behind has gone past you."

[MrC986]

I was at a general track day at Donington very recently and the organiser who runs the track indicated in the briefing session that he was amazed at people driving their cars to the event! - surely that’s how most people get into the experience

There were numerous cars from various racing series present who were clearly using it as a test day and I concur with some previous replies that the mid/late afternoon sessions are the safest/best as the racing drivers have either broken their cars or alternatively have done sufficient laps that they have had enough & packed their big lorries up & headed home. I even saw race series cars weaving in front of normal track day attendees who were approaching at some speed on more than one occasion.

[andyhatton]

MrC986 said:

I was at a general track day at Donington very recently and the organiser who runs the track indicated in the briefing session that he was amazed at people driving their cars to the event! - surely that’s how most people get into the experience

Once again, I'm interested in the name of the TDO in question...