Tyre pyrometers
Discussion
I doubt that you'll get any benefit out of it over having a good tyre gauge. Checking the temperature is generally only worthwhile when you are looking to make sure you have an even temp across the tyre which is a function of your suspension geometry.
It'll help you with your pressures but assuming you know what you want your pressure set at a pressure gauge will do.
Stephen
It'll help you with your pressures but assuming you know what you want your pressure set at a pressure gauge will do.
Stephen
At anything short of the F1 level, you will get more information out of reading the tyre surface to see how you are using it.
One of the Carroll Smith books (Drive to Win, chapter 3) has excellent photographs demonstrating how to interpret tyre surfaces.
>> Edited by flemke on Monday 6th June 23:54
One of the Carroll Smith books (Drive to Win, chapter 3) has excellent photographs demonstrating how to interpret tyre surfaces.
>> Edited by flemke on Monday 6th June 23:54
flemke said:
At anything short of the F1 level, you will get more information out of reading the tyre surface to see how you are using it.
One of the Carroll Smith books (Drive to Win, chapter 3) has excellent photographs demonstrating how to interpret tyre surfaces.
>> Edited by flemke on Monday 6th June 23:54
I realise that - you measure at three points across the tyre. Hotter in the middle = pressure too high. Hotter at the outside = pressure too low.
Is this not a valuable aid to setting tyre pressures? I've only done two track days and none in my present car (944 turbo) - I'm thinking mostly that it is going to help me care for the tyres.
ambrose said:
I realise that - you measure at three points across the tyre. Hotter in the middle = pressure too high. Hotter at the outside = pressure too low.
yeah as i understand it you are right and then balancing temp across the tyre you do by adjusting camber. its all very well just doing pressures but that assumes you know what pressures to run. for the sake of £30 it would be interesting to see if you can get the 'correct' pressures using this method and even comparing wear patterns with temperature (as flemke says although i suspect this is far more of an art than a science!). might try it myself - im sure its wrong tyre pressures not my driving
>> Edited by francisb on Wednesday 8th June 19:35
As a starting point you aim to get the middle temperature roughly at the average of the inner and outer temperature, and then compare the inner and outer temperature to see whether you have too much or too little camber, on average. However, changing the camber will affect the handling balance of the car so you can't just set the camber blindly based on the temperatures. To add to the complexity, the tyre pressure is affected by the temperature but in turn the pressure also affects the tyre temperature (by controlling the amount of deflection in various parts of the tyre). So if your tyres are being overworked you may need to compromise the pressure to prevent the tyre from overheating. Getting this right is probably more important than getting the tyre temperature distribution right. Unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules for how to address overheating, in some cases you need to raise the pressure in others you need to lower it. The further you look into it the more complexity you will find. It's well worth monitoring tyre temperatures to find what problems you may have, but solving them can challenge the little grey cells ...
I don't know diddly about this, but the smartest engineer/race driver I know spends a lot of time poring over his tyre surfaces and does not bother with pyrometers.
I have read that one of the problems with pyrometers is that the surface temps (as opposed to the pressures) drop very quickly, and can be quite influenced by something as simple as one's last bend before coming into the pits. The readings you will get once you have returned to the pits, climbed out of the car and walked around to each of the corners, taking three measurements on each, will tend to have little relation to reality. (On the F1 teams they use real-time sensors to monitor temp changes on the fly.)
Furthermore, to use a pyrometer properly you need to push the needle deeply into the rubber and at a particular angle, without puncturing.
I have read that one of the problems with pyrometers is that the surface temps (as opposed to the pressures) drop very quickly, and can be quite influenced by something as simple as one's last bend before coming into the pits. The readings you will get once you have returned to the pits, climbed out of the car and walked around to each of the corners, taking three measurements on each, will tend to have little relation to reality. (On the F1 teams they use real-time sensors to monitor temp changes on the fly.)
Furthermore, to use a pyrometer properly you need to push the needle deeply into the rubber and at a particular angle, without puncturing.
I agree with Flemke's view that if you want to get really good information you need expensive kit and to use it in a very consistent way. Timing being critical. However, more information is always useful as long as you treat it with caution. I use an infra-red thermometer to look at tyre temps and find it useful as a check in conjunction with other info, including wear patterns and feel. Having said that I am using it on a single seater so am more interested in the effect of set-up changes than tyre pressures. It is also a very useful thing to have in the tool box for loads of other applications.
I bought one of these little fellas
cheapo infrared thermometer
>> Edited by rustybin on Thursday 9th June 14:10
I bought one of these little fellas
cheapo infrared thermometer
>> Edited by rustybin on Thursday 9th June 14:10
Hmm... well food for thought. As a cheapo beginner track-day type bod I was primarily concerned with tyre life. As quipped, I don't think tyre temperature is the primary determinate of my speed.
As pointed out I guess (had I thought about it) it would be overall temp that would be important. However, if remedial action is not clear from general overheating... that may not be much use.
But anyway for 30quid it seems entertaining....
Cheers,
Chris
As pointed out I guess (had I thought about it) it would be overall temp that would be important. However, if remedial action is not clear from general overheating... that may not be much use.
But anyway for 30quid it seems entertaining....
Cheers,
Chris
For entertainment, they can't be beaten. Everyone else in the pit gets to have a laugh 
. The laser spotted infra red ones are useful for exhaust manifolds too - you can see a poor firing cylinder. At least, that's another excuse to add to the collection. On a track day, I've found I can never be bothered to change the car setup (beyond dampers and tyre pressures).
. The laser spotted infra red ones are useful for exhaust manifolds too - you can see a poor firing cylinder. At least, that's another excuse to add to the collection. On a track day, I've found I can never be bothered to change the car setup (beyond dampers and tyre pressures).Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff