Destroying Brake Pads

[Osmoliver]

Mr MXT said:

roddo said:

Mr MXT said:

Blyton isn’t that hard on brakes, especially in a low powered and light car like an MX5.

IT could be a technique issue.

I beg to differ as there is several 100-30mph corners at Blyton. It's much heavier on brakes that the likes of Donington

Only into the wiggler and the right hander after port froid...and what corners are as slow as 30?!

I’ll allow you the poetic license though, You can peddle an mx5 a heck of lot faster than I can...!

I'm not willing to rule out that technique may also be a contributing factor, would anyone care to elaborate what perfect/best practice brake technique is?

[Osmoliver]

MJ85 said:

Does sound like relatively excessive wear then. Good luck getting it sorted.

I agree, that's why I'm asking questions. Thanks.

And thank you to everyone else who has suggested upgrading pads and cooling. Lots of recommendations and solutions for me to try.

[SAS Tom]

I’d say Blyton is much harder on brakes than many other tracks. Plenty of hard braking sections and not much time between corners for the brakes to cool down.

As above, track biased brake pads will help massively. Also try and get as much air to the brakes as possible, it should help.

[motorhole]

Osmoliver said:

If you were at Frank's, yup! ??

Definitely going to give better pads a go. Your E30 went well!

I've got 16" wheels on the Z3, so will start with just pads. My Mx-5 is my usually track drive, but it's off the road at the minute.

Cheers! Was a great day and very entertaining to watch somebody try and drive on brakes that were actually on fire!

Yep, good pads should see you through. Track/road offerings from Carbon Lorraine (RC5+/RC6), Carbotech, Pagid etc should all do a great job.

Someone did mention technique above too - short, hard braking is much better for pad life than long steady braking, but that might be something you already know

[Osmoliver]

motorhole said:

Cheers! Was a great day and very entertaining to watch somebody try and drive on brakes that were actually on fire!

Yep, good pads should see you through. Track/road offerings from Carbon Lorraine (RC5+/RC6), Carbotech, Pagid etc should all do a great job.

Someone did mention technique above too - short, hard braking is much better for pad life than long steady braking, but that might be something you already know

Was so grateful it was still on with all the chaos at the moment! I had lots of fun whilst I was on track. Popping to ECP for new pads and fitting them in the paddock wasn't as entertaining haha!

Cool, thanks for the recommendations. Should have loads of time to fit some before Frank's next event. I might even have the Mx-5 (red NA) back by then!

It's something I've been told and tried to implement. If you leave your braking as late as possible, you can't be on the brakes too long, right? Could probably do with someone who knows in the passenger seat to give me some feedback.

[E-bmw]

Osmoliver said:

iguana said:

Yes to an appropriate pad, yes to improving cooling, no to fancy discs, waste of money, oe quality is fine.

What pad is a very long list & discussion & disagreements abound, few will disagree with say a pagid rs29 pad however, only real downside is price, a Ds1.11 does a similar job for less, but the squeal on road is a downside.

Those pagids are pricey! Ferodo's website suggests the DS1.11s are for track use only? I've previously been recommended DS2500s for the Mx-5 and was planning on purchasing some of them at some point.

Yes, they are pricey, but they will last well over a year of track use, so will actually cost less than oe pads at a set/day/

DS1.11 are for track use only but they take no warming up & I have used them on road/track cars for years without any issues at all.

[nickfrog]

Osmoliver said:

I'm not willing to rule out that technique may also be a contributing factor, would anyone care to elaborate what perfect/best practice brake technique is?

Try and brake hard but for as short a time as possible rather then let the pads drag unnecessarily. Not always easy when you trail brake of course but some people don't release quickly enough.
This may not solve anything of course until you fit pads that can cope.
General braking tips can be found on Driver61 on YT.
Working on your braking trace is particularly useful.

[227bhp]

There is only The Wiggler at Blyton where you can top 100, if you don't want to cook your pads then fit bigger ones along with matching discs.

[Burnzyb]

I took ebc yellows onto donno with a mk1 TT and they where fine, they started to get quite warm after 25ish minutes on track, I noticed fade a couple of time’s, there was loads of life left on them after the day though.

If it’s a road and track car they are a good compromise, and they don’t make your eyes water when paying for them.

I know EBC never shook off their bad rep after they had some quality issues way back, but I’ve never had problems with their stuff.

I want to try the ebc blues next as they are also EC90 approved is it? So are road legal but also more of a track pad than the yellows, cold bite was very good on the yellows though, hence good if using the car as a daily too.

[Zoobeef]

I love Blyton
https://youtu.be/Fj4dSkxdjHY
Reasonably hard on brakes though a theres not much time between corners. Most has been said already but get some decent track focused pads, I've never had an issue with Carbon Lorraine RC6, even racing up to an hour and I use standard pagid discs (in a VX220).

[motorhole]

Burnzyb said:

I want to try the ebc blues next as they are also EC90 approved is it? So are road legal but also more of a track pad than the yellows, cold bite was very good on the yellows though, hence good if using the car as a daily too.

I've tried the blues. They're okay - fine on the road. Feel a bit wooden first time they get hot but after that are fine. Don't last as long as the Carbon Lorraines though.

[Burnzyb]

motorhole said:

I've tried the blues. They're okay - fine on the road. Feel a bit wooden first time they get hot but after that are fine. Don't last as long as the Carbon Lorraines though.

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind, until now I haven’t been able to speak to anyone who’s used them.

Have you tried the orange pad yet? As I know they are there top dog pad as far as I’m aware?

[motorhole]

Burnzyb said:

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind, until now I haven’t been able to speak to anyone who’s used them.

Have you tried the orange pad yet? As I know they are there top dog pad as far as I’m aware?

Nope, not tried the orange! TBH I'm loving the bite and lifetime of the CLs so reluctant to change now - they are pretty affordable for what they offer with regards to performance and lifetime

[Burnzyb]

motorhole said:

Nope, not tried the orange! TBH I'm loving the bite and lifetime of the CLs so reluctant to change now - they are pretty affordable for what they offer with regards to performance and lifetime

Ok thanks, I’ll check out the CL pads

[mmm-five]

Burnzyb said:

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind, until now I haven’t been able to speak to anyone who’s used them.

Have you tried the orange pad yet? As I know they are there top dog pad as far as I’m aware?

Orange need a LOT of heat - and I gave them 3 laps of the Ring before swapping to the Bluestuffs I had in my spares because I couldn't get enough heat into the Oranges.

I've now settled on just using RS29s as they're reliable and consistent (never had pads from different batches with different performance as I have with EBC).

Pity they're so expensive though - and I keep meaning to try CL or PF, but don't want to chance moving away from the RS29s.

[Burnzyb]

mmm-five said:

Orange need a LOT of heat - and I gave them 3 laps of the Ring before swapping to the Bluestuffs I had in my spares because I couldn't get enough heat into the Oranges.

I've now settled on just using RS29s as they're reliable and consistent (never had pads from different batches with different performance as I have with EBC).

Pity they're so expensive though - and I keep meaning to try CL or PF, but don't want to chance moving away from the RS29s.

I’ve not yet driven the ring, I’m guessing there is quite long straights or more to the point it’s not on and off the brakes as quickly as a smaller track? Plus I’d like to think you wasn’t using the brakes 100% considering how long it takes people to learn it? Would they be more suited on a U.K. track where they haven’t got time to cool down as much?

I got rid of the TT as I’m too big for it 6’6” and in the process of converting a mk2 tfsi Octavia VRS into 4wd and plan to take that on track eventually so this topic is of interest for me

Nice to get other people’s opinions on the matter too hence the OP original question.

[E-bmw]

Contrary to many opinions the 'Ring is NOT hard on brakes so you won't get any more heat into pads than on a spirited Sunday drive.

There are VERY few big braking manoeuvres and lots of straight in between.

If you want to get proper heat into pads and see the consequences try going to Cadwell or Blyton & giving it some beans, there are 4 + hard braking areas within 2 miles & not the longest of straights in between.

[thebraketester]

My brakes took a beating at Caldwell and that was using massive 2 piece discs and eye-wateringly expensive pads. I think cooling was an issue. :-(

[Burnzyb]

My mate does a lot of track days at donno as he lives 20 minutes away the bugger, and he did say that running ducts to the front brakes made a massive difference on track, and it was out lasting more serious brake kits that didn’t have extra cooling.

[mmm-five]

Burnzyb said:

I’ve not yet driven the ring, I’m guessing there is quite long straights or more to the point it’s not on and off the brakes as quickly as a smaller track? Plus I’d like to think you wasn’t using the brakes 100% considering how long it takes people to learn it? Would they be more suited on a U.K. track where they haven’t got time to cool down as much?

I got rid of the TT as I’m too big for it 6’6” and in the process of converting a mk2 tfsi Octavia VRS into 4wd and plan to take that on track eventually so this topic is of interest for me

Nice to get other people’s opinions on the matter too hence the OP original question.

Yes, I think it was definitely the unique nature of the Ring that made them feel like the were under-performing - and at only 3 laps in was definitely not anywhere near 10/10ths level (although try to keep it below 9/10ths on TF). My first solution was to keep tapping the brake pedal in advance of the couple of hard braking areas.

My thinking was Yellow < Blue < Orange, therefore Orange would be better than Blue in all situations (on a 1500kg coupe) - which they obviously weren't - started calling them 'Brownstuff' after the first session of the day.

Think they'd be much better for someone driving at 10/10ths on a technical track like Cadwell/Oulton/Blyton (or maybe anything with 'Park' in its name).

So not really fair to criticise the pads themselves, when they were being used in the wrong circumstances.

Edited by mmm-five on Monday 23 March 10:15