Donington noise issues
Discussion
Pretty much the case, succintly put. I have had an independent, certified noise meter on the pit wall, next to their own noise microphone, and it disagreed substantially to what their noise man told me. I get someone nearly every day relating how they failed abyssmally at Donington, yet pass drive by testing elsewhere. Whilst I appreciate noise limits are NOT chosen by the track day organiser nor the circuit owners and operators, I feel something odd is afoot at Donington. I am now unwilling to risk a substantial fee, none refundable, to enter a track day event there in the hope my latest exhaust mod will satisfy their noise mans seemingly arbitrary measurements.
Donington has always been a little stricter than others (along with Bedford & Castle Combe) but you're right that things have got worse. It's normally 98dbs, strictly enforced on quiet days. That should be OK with yours though Iain shouldn't it ?
Donington has also apparently developed a reputation for attracting some rather "dodgy" characters in what some might call "dodgy" cars. The sort of thing one hears of doing donuts at the local B&Q car-park on a Sunday night. Something to do with their ridiculously low pricing policy, which therefore also sees massive queues building up in the pit-lane, even on open pit-lane days.
I was there earlier in year when a massive 91 slots had been sold on an open pit-lane day. I've been quicker round the M25 in rush hour. It was the worst track day I'd been to.
>> Edited by 55jnj on Monday 13th June 23:20
Donington has also apparently developed a reputation for attracting some rather "dodgy" characters in what some might call "dodgy" cars. The sort of thing one hears of doing donuts at the local B&Q car-park on a Sunday night. Something to do with their ridiculously low pricing policy, which therefore also sees massive queues building up in the pit-lane, even on open pit-lane days.
I was there earlier in year when a massive 91 slots had been sold on an open pit-lane day. I've been quicker round the M25 in rush hour. It was the worst track day I'd been to.
>> Edited by 55jnj on Monday 13th June 23:20
Sounds like they're trying to put themselves out of business, or at very least alienate solid trackdayers - a bit like the aspirational night club that refuses entry to good punters in the belief that the standard'll be raised in the process.
In the end, getting in and giving them money becomes too much like hard work. Nice bar, shame you can see the walls.
Nice circuit, shame you can hear a pin drop.
And haven't they noticed there's an airport next door?
In the end, getting in and giving them money becomes too much like hard work. Nice bar, shame you can see the walls.
Nice circuit, shame you can hear a pin drop.
And haven't they noticed there's an airport next door?
It seems to have got worse. The EvoActive day I did a couple of weeks ago, despite being an excellent day, got emptier and emptier in the pit lane, on track, and in the paddock. Why? : 20+ cars were sent home for failing the 98db limit. Strangely, mine was Ok despite being too noisy just about everywhere else...
It is the local council that control the limits so, no point blaming Donnington themselves.
It is the local council that control the limits so, no point blaming Donnington themselves.
Surely, if this is beginning to gather momentum, the obvious route is, in that case, for Donny management to open talks or negotiations with the council before the circuit gets a reputation as a no-go area for (quality) track dayers, and becomes a track day equivalent of B&Q car park on a Sunday night.
Won't take long for the track day companies and organisers to work out no punters (or low budget punters) means no profit means no point - and start to can their days at Donny.
That, in turn, means potential job losses locally as track days dry up.
It also sounds like the council has a major PR problem in terms of the way the Noise Fed gloats his way through every dismissal.
Won't take long for the track day companies and organisers to work out no punters (or low budget punters) means no profit means no point - and start to can their days at Donny.
That, in turn, means potential job losses locally as track days dry up.
It also sounds like the council has a major PR problem in terms of the way the Noise Fed gloats his way through every dismissal.
let's not get too dramatic. standard road cars are highly unlikely to have a problem - as are most cars with cat's in place and/or standard exhaust systems.
i've had plenty of race cars, bike engined cars, scoobies/evo's, honda powered elises, caterham superlights etc on all our days there recently without problems.
as an example, a standard S1 elise from the factory was about 88dB static, which equates to less than 85dB driveby. Take the cat out and you immediately add about 3dB. Add a janspeed exhaust and it's up near 98dB static - 95 to 96dB driveby. leave that janspeed on the car for 6 years and its going to be borderline at a 98dB drive by circuit.
same goes for any road or race car - a silenced cat pipe, a new silencer or even just some £50 baffles can get 3-4dB off the noise.
the most we've had is about 2 or 3 cars per day removed because of noise - and to be fair at least 1 of those guys *knew* he was too loud as it turns out he'd been on a quiet day before and been removed!
whilst i dont agree with the NIMBY attitude that plagues motorsport, you have to accept that rules are rules and if you wish to continue driving (at any UK circuit) you will need to make your car quieter and quieter as time goes on.
anyone who's in doubt as to their noise level is welcome to come along to a BaT track day without paying - do a couple of laps and if they pass - pay for the day. it's certainly of no interest to me to take someones money and have them removed from the circuit - far more hassle than it's worth.
Hope this helps, anyone with a specific query should contact me by email (jonny AT bookatrack DOT com)
cheers,
Jonny
BaT
i've had plenty of race cars, bike engined cars, scoobies/evo's, honda powered elises, caterham superlights etc on all our days there recently without problems.
as an example, a standard S1 elise from the factory was about 88dB static, which equates to less than 85dB driveby. Take the cat out and you immediately add about 3dB. Add a janspeed exhaust and it's up near 98dB static - 95 to 96dB driveby. leave that janspeed on the car for 6 years and its going to be borderline at a 98dB drive by circuit.
same goes for any road or race car - a silenced cat pipe, a new silencer or even just some £50 baffles can get 3-4dB off the noise.
the most we've had is about 2 or 3 cars per day removed because of noise - and to be fair at least 1 of those guys *knew* he was too loud as it turns out he'd been on a quiet day before and been removed!
whilst i dont agree with the NIMBY attitude that plagues motorsport, you have to accept that rules are rules and if you wish to continue driving (at any UK circuit) you will need to make your car quieter and quieter as time goes on.
anyone who's in doubt as to their noise level is welcome to come along to a BaT track day without paying - do a couple of laps and if they pass - pay for the day. it's certainly of no interest to me to take someones money and have them removed from the circuit - far more hassle than it's worth.
Hope this helps, anyone with a specific query should contact me by email (jonny AT bookatrack DOT com)
cheers,
Jonny
BaT
Seems quite a few valid points here.
Very civil of jleroux to allow peeps to go and try a day there first.
Without mentioning names Ive spoken to a number of regular trackday goer's and 2 other organisers who seem to be disturbed by the attitude of the noise man at Donington rather than the circuit noise limit.
I know of standard roadcars too failing the test, certainly a mate of mine in a factory sccoby was told by the noise'person' he was 108!! And another elise with sports exhaust (but passed noise test's elsewhere) Followed by a very unpolite "go home"
Very civil of jleroux to allow peeps to go and try a day there first.
Without mentioning names Ive spoken to a number of regular trackday goer's and 2 other organisers who seem to be disturbed by the attitude of the noise man at Donington rather than the circuit noise limit.
I know of standard roadcars too failing the test, certainly a mate of mine in a factory sccoby was told by the noise'person' he was 108!! And another elise with sports exhaust (but passed noise test's elsewhere) Followed by a very unpolite "go home"
what do you mean by "factory" scooby? i've seen loads of scoobys (included modded ones) have no problems at Donny Park.
We've even had Radical SR3's there recently (albeit with the 98dB factory silencer)
As I said before - no excuse for being too noisy. If you're interested in doing track days then put some of your fuel/tyre/trackday funds towards making the car quiet enough to actually attend FIRST.
I run 5 Caterham Superlights - all with aftermarket exhausts that cost under £150 each that get the job done. I also run a Honda Civic engined Lotus Elise which does 0-100mph in under 10s and that's about 92dB drive by!
J5
BaT
We've even had Radical SR3's there recently (albeit with the 98dB factory silencer)
As I said before - no excuse for being too noisy. If you're interested in doing track days then put some of your fuel/tyre/trackday funds towards making the car quiet enough to actually attend FIRST.
I run 5 Caterham Superlights - all with aftermarket exhausts that cost under £150 each that get the job done. I also run a Honda Civic engined Lotus Elise which does 0-100mph in under 10s and that's about 92dB drive by!
J5
BaT
55jnj said:
Donington has also apparently developed a reputation for attracting some rather "dodgy" characters in what some might call "dodgy" cars. The sort of thing one hears of doing donuts at the local B&Q car-park on a Sunday night. Something to do with their ridiculously low pricing policy, which therefore also sees massive queues building up in the pit-lane, even on open pit-lane days.
I was there earlier in year when a massive 91 slots had been sold on an open pit-lane day. I've been quicker round the M25 in rush hour. It was the worst track day I'd been to.
>> Edited by 55jnj on Monday 13th June 23:20
Are these, by any chance, the Trackzone days that Donington run every Sunday for £125??? I only ask because I'm about to book for July 3rd and I don't want to run into a load of Max Power idiots or straight line merchants.
Also, was the 91 slots for all the groups, or for each group??? That's a LOT of cars on track at once...
Cheers
i attended a trackday at donington on sun 5/6/05 using stuart-taylor locoblade(noise limit that day 98dba)
1st session went ok,max reading 97 dba
2nd session with a passenger,black flagged on 3rd lap and pulled in to be told my noise level was 102.4 dba!!! and was given the chance to rectify the problem and go out again to be checked - which i duly did and noise went down to 92 dba.
after session i went upstairs(above race control) and had a chat to the noise guy,he explained that alot of bike engined cars do fail the noise limit when being revved hard-but he said after making mods to my car it was fine.
here is a list of mods made
1.drive into pit garage
2.get out of car -walk over to pit wall and along to overhead gantry that holds the clock -see where noise meter is situated and remember
3.get back in car-go back out onto circuit drive as fast as possible all the way round until last corner before start/finish line,change up into top gear@ 6000rpm/70 mph and drive past noise meter as far as possile away from the pit wall(but not on the grass)
4.increase speed all way until entering braking area for redgate then drive rest of lap fast again.(if you do this and dont drop 3 gears as soon as youve passed the noise meter(doing this will annoy the pit lane exit marshall who will then radio race-control and tell them what youre doing) - you should be alright!!!
1st session went ok,max reading 97 dba
2nd session with a passenger,black flagged on 3rd lap and pulled in to be told my noise level was 102.4 dba!!! and was given the chance to rectify the problem and go out again to be checked - which i duly did and noise went down to 92 dba.
after session i went upstairs(above race control) and had a chat to the noise guy,he explained that alot of bike engined cars do fail the noise limit when being revved hard-but he said after making mods to my car it was fine.
here is a list of mods made
1.drive into pit garage
2.get out of car -walk over to pit wall and along to overhead gantry that holds the clock -see where noise meter is situated and remember
3.get back in car-go back out onto circuit drive as fast as possible all the way round until last corner before start/finish line,change up into top gear@ 6000rpm/70 mph and drive past noise meter as far as possile away from the pit wall(but not on the grass)
4.increase speed all way until entering braking area for redgate then drive rest of lap fast again.(if you do this and dont drop 3 gears as soon as youve passed the noise meter(doing this will annoy the pit lane exit marshall who will then radio race-control and tell them what youre doing) - you should be alright!!!
mjr993 said:
3.get back in car-go back out onto circuit drive as fast as possible all the way round until last corner before start/finish line,change up into top gear@ 6000rpm/70 mph and drive past noise meter as far as possile away from the pit wall(but not on the grass)
exactly. my scum was registering 101dB despite having a "trackday freindly" 97dB exhaust. just dont drive next to the pitwall. problem solved.
my experience of the cotrollers is different though. they were very appologetic and were clearly upset by the pathetic rules enforced on them by the council. at one stage our conversationn was drowned out by a cargo plane flying into east midlands...
apparently there is one woman who writes to the council every day whenever there is an event (ie every day). the circuit HAS to reply to every letter and provide noise data prints to the council every day. they have had to employ someone soley to deal with the council... apparently there are a hrdcore of about 10 letter writters... pathetic
don't take my comments wrongly - all the people who failed at the EvoActive day were given at least one chance (and usually 2) to remedy the noise problems with their cars. We had caterhams with taped over air-filters (induction noise being the problem) and classic Astons hack-sawing off the end of their exhausts to fit additional mufflers!!
further to my ramblings about donny noise regs yesterday-forgot to mention that when i was chatting to the noise guy upstairs(very nice guy -but remember he is only doing his job) i mentioned about the aircraft noise - he then went onto say that his colleage from the council does the same job as him at the airport,and there are noise limits there too - all aircraft leaving are checked -if they exceed the noise limit the computer automatically sends a fine to the aircraft operator(ie easyjet etc) OF £1000 FOR EVERY 1 decibel over the limit !!! on a similar note i once got bollocked by the marshalls at brands hatch for squeeling my tyres going round clearways in a pug 205gti- apparently i was driving too fast!!!! and the residents complained about the noise!!!!!!!!!!.
further to my ramblings about donny noise regs yesterday-forgot to mention that when i was chatting to the noise guy upstairs(very nice guy -but remember he is only doing his job) i mentioned about the aircraft noise - he then went onto say that his colleage from the council does the same job as him at the airport,and there are noise limits there too - all aircraft leaving are checked -if they exceed the noise limit the computer automatically sends a fine to the aircraft operator(ie easyjet etc) OF £1000 FOR EVERY 1 decibel over the limit !!! on a similar note i once got bollocked by the marshalls at brands hatch for squeeling my tyres going round clearways in a pug 205gti- apparently i was driving too fast!!!! and the residents complained about the noise!!!!!!!!!!.
mjr993 said:
further to my ramblings about donny noise regs yesterday-forgot to mention that when i was chatting to the noise guy upstairs(very nice guy -but remember he is only doing his job) i mentioned about the aircraft noise - he then went onto say that his colleage from the council does the same job as him at the airport,and there are noise limits there too - all aircraft leaving are checked -if they exceed the noise limit the computer automatically sends a fine to the aircraft operator(ie easyjet etc) OF £1000 FOR EVERY 1 decibel over the limit !!! on a similar note i once got bollocked by the marshalls at brands hatch for squeeling my tyres going round clearways in a pug 205gti- apparently i was driving too fast!!!! and the residents complained about the noise!!!!!!!!!!.
Brands has been going since 1926 and the existance of the circuit is hardly kept secret. How can anybody have the nerve to move next to a circuit then complain about the noise?
francisb said:
apparently there is one woman who writes to the council every day whenever there is an event (ie every day). the circuit HAS to reply to every letter and provide noise data prints to the council every day. they have had to employ someone soley to deal with the council... apparently there are a hrdcore of about 10 letter writters... pathetic
Hehe, the guy who does the breifing at Donny's own track days mentioned this particular woman a few months ago
"It's just one of those houses that won't burn" he joked.. : ))
I remember at lunch break at Donny earlier this year a Cargo plane skimmed the top of the pit buildings ( it was bloody low )
PA message ... "Anyone get a dB reading from that"
GarrettMacD said:
Donington has also apparently developed a reputation for attracting some rather "dodgy" characters in what some might call "dodgy" cars. The sort of thing one hears of doing donuts at the local B&Q car-park on a Sunday night. Something to do with their ridiculously low pricing policy, which therefore also sees massive queues building up in the pit-lane, even on open pit-lane days.
I was there earlier in year when a massive 91 slots had been sold on an open pit-lane day. I've been quicker round the M25 in rush hour. It was the worst track day I'd been to.
>> Edited by 55jnj on Monday 13th June 23:20
Are these, by any chance, the Trackzone days that Donington run every Sunday for £125??? I only ask because I'm about to book for July 3rd and I don't want to run into a load of Max Power idiots or straight line merchants.
Also, was the 91 slots for all the groups, or for each group??? That's a LOT of cars on track at once...
Cheers
Yes & on Friday evenings priced at £99. That's the problem - the cheap days are attracting idiots. Many friends are now avoiding Trakzone days because of the characters turning up & spoiling it for everyone else.
91 cars was an open pitlane day - so there was the potential for 38 cars to be on track (the max allowed I think) & over 50 queueing up in the pitlane !
Being a CD resident I can enjoy the sounds from Donington most days, depending on the direction of the wind. Last time I was at the track a couple of weeks ago it was a noisy day. There are a very limited number available so you pay extra but no limits - at least not as far as the earbursting Porsche was concerned.
I think the secrets of passing the test have been outlined above, though any vehicle with an off-side exhaust might benefit. Those cars I have seen banished have, with one exception last year that seemed perhaps marginal, all been notable louder in some way than anything else around.
As far as the Track Zone days are concerned, those I have visited or attended have, mostly , been OK, especially as the day or session progresses. I have seen days run by others, populated with very experienced regular trackdayers, which have not gone as smoothly. You can't easily assume the distinction between the type of session purely based on who the lead organiser is. One aspect of the impecunious is that their vehicles tend to spend longer off the track than on it - quite beneficial for an open pit lane session I reckon.
I don't really see the problem of access for all. We all have the choice of how much we wish to pay versus what facilities we expect to have provided. The worst case scenario probably occurs when weekend racers turn up on a Friday evening session to get some testing and practice under their wheels for a race on Saturday or Sunday. Fair enough, but it is a track evening not a test day so if the attendees are a bit of a mixed bunch you just have to accept it. From experience I can confirm that driving several laps with one eye omn the mirrors in case one of the racing Radicals catches up with you twice on the same lap sort of takes the edge off the fun.
FWIW a lot of the 'lads' I have spoken to seem to be much more involved with and knowledgable about their Novas and Fiestas than a surprisingly large number of exotica drivers are about their toys. Or at least that is the way it seems.
Just my opinion.
I think the secrets of passing the test have been outlined above, though any vehicle with an off-side exhaust might benefit. Those cars I have seen banished have, with one exception last year that seemed perhaps marginal, all been notable louder in some way than anything else around.
As far as the Track Zone days are concerned, those I have visited or attended have, mostly , been OK, especially as the day or session progresses. I have seen days run by others, populated with very experienced regular trackdayers, which have not gone as smoothly. You can't easily assume the distinction between the type of session purely based on who the lead organiser is. One aspect of the impecunious is that their vehicles tend to spend longer off the track than on it - quite beneficial for an open pit lane session I reckon.
I don't really see the problem of access for all. We all have the choice of how much we wish to pay versus what facilities we expect to have provided. The worst case scenario probably occurs when weekend racers turn up on a Friday evening session to get some testing and practice under their wheels for a race on Saturday or Sunday. Fair enough, but it is a track evening not a test day so if the attendees are a bit of a mixed bunch you just have to accept it. From experience I can confirm that driving several laps with one eye omn the mirrors in case one of the racing Radicals catches up with you twice on the same lap sort of takes the edge off the fun.
FWIW a lot of the 'lads' I have spoken to seem to be much more involved with and knowledgable about their Novas and Fiestas than a surprisingly large number of exotica drivers are about their toys. Or at least that is the way it seems.
Just my opinion.
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