Track days in supercars?

Track days in supercars?

Author
Discussion

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

30 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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lawrywild said:
I always purchase insurance, that's a no brainer for me. Personally I would never risk being out of pocket the whole value of a supercar for the sake of saving a few hundred each time I track the car. You can always drive within your limits etc on a track day and "not push it" but you can never account for somebody else being stupid or driving over an oil/coolant spill etc.

Watch this to explain what I mean... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E68awxZC3Nk (Imagine you were the uninsured Huayra driver..)

As for brakes, I don't fancy the price of new carbon ceramic rotors. Take them off, store them in my house somewhere for re-sale, and fit and run steels during my ownership (or just buy a 540C you'd provably say - but I actually want a convertible i.e. 570S Spider).


Edited by lawrywild on Thursday 24th December 12:59
On average it’ll cost you more to insure than not, so I don’t.

Would you not have more fun if you bought something that you were more comfortable using on the track? You’re probably looking at £2,000 per day in your car, and from the points above it comes across that you aren’t comfortable at this level.

UTH

3,218 posts

148 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Kent Border Kenny said:
UTH said:
Guessing he'll be swapping out carbon ceramics?

MY Corvette has Ceramics.....I'm told it'll be about £20k+ to replace them! So if I was planning on lots of track days I'd probably look to swap them out for steel.
It just seems a strange way round to do it. The whole point is that they are far less prone to fade, so it seems a shame to put the better brakes on in the environment that they are least needed.
Yes I agree with your logic. I guess with my car at £70k, I don't think I was ever really planning on having to replace the brakes at £20k.
I'll only do 2 or 3 track days per year in the Corvette I reckon, so I don't imagine I'll replace mine with steels, but I can certainly see why people would.

lawrywild

155 posts

32 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Kent Border Kenny said:
It just seems a strange way round to do it. The whole point is that they are far less prone to fade, so it seems a shame to put the better brakes on in the environment that they are least needed.
Ever heard somebody say "swap your steel brakes to carbon ceramics for lots of track day usage"? Exactly

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

30 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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lawrywild said:
Ever heard somebody say "swap your steel brakes to carbon ceramics for lots of track day usage"? Exactly
I’ve never heard anyone suggest swapping brakes at all. We’re talking about track days here, a day out to have a play with your car in a controlled environment, not qualifying for Le Mans.

Which brakes do you put on yours then?

Trackdayer

1,000 posts

11 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Carbon brakes are an absolute joy on track.

lawrywild

155 posts

32 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Kent Border Kenny said:
I’ve never heard anyone suggest swapping brakes at all.
Ok I'm out

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

30 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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lawrywild said:
Ok I'm out
How will the adults cope?

Pdelamare

646 posts

98 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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AMG GTR makes a good track day car once you’ve got some brake cooling dudts installed. Mine had ceramics with Pagid RSC pads and they lasted a long time. It’s quiet enough for even the quietest days and it’ll lap all day long without overheating. Once the OE discs have worn out just replace with Surface Transforms which last a lot longer and can be refurbed.

Insurance is easy, just get a policy with track days included, cost no more than standard policies. Nurburgring costs £500 more, but well worth paying, as I found out.

lawrywild

155 posts

32 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Pdelamare said:
AMG GTR makes a good track day car once you’ve got some brake cooling dudts installed. Mine had ceramics with Pagid RSC pads and they lasted a long time. It’s quiet enough for even the quietest days and it’ll lap all day long without overheating. Once the OE discs have worn out just replace with Surface Transforms which last a lot longer and can be refurbed.

Insurance is easy, just get a policy with track days included, cost no more than standard policies. Nurburgring costs £500 more, but well worth paying, as I found out.
Are there more reasonably priced brake cooling ducts for the AMG GT R available now? When I looked previously it was something crazy like £4k for the renntech or tikit carbon ducts. Has somebody made a cheaper option in plastic yet?

There's definitely cost efficiency in getting a road policy with track days included but the main issue is that they're linked. If you claim on the track then that affects your road NCB. I buy in bulk (5 at a time with a 1 year expiration) from Moris and it's a separate policy meaning any claim on that won't affect my road insurance going forwards.

Pdelamare

646 posts

98 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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lawrywild said:
Are there more reasonably priced brake cooling ducts for the AMG GT R available now? When I looked previously it was something crazy like £4k for the renntech or tikit carbon ducts. Has somebody made a cheaper option in plastic yet?

There's definitely cost efficiency in getting a road policy with track days included but the main issue is that they're linked. If you claim on the track then that affects your road NCB. I buy in bulk (5 at a time with a 1 year expiration) from Moris and it's a separate policy meaning any claim on that won't affect my road insurance going forwards.
Front and rear ducts were £2,400 from RennTech iirc.

My claim hasn’t affected costs of my policies once explained that it was a track incident.

LPC6

79 posts

12 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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lawrywild said:
Are there more reasonably priced brake cooling ducts for the AMG GT R available now? When I looked previously it was something crazy like £4k for the renntech or tikit carbon ducts. Has somebody made a cheaper option in plastic yet?

There's definitely cost efficiency in getting a road policy with track days included but the main issue is that they're linked. If you claim on the track then that affects your road NCB. I buy in bulk (5 at a time with a 1 year expiration) from Moris and it's a separate policy meaning any claim on that won't affect my road insurance going forwards.
Do you not still have to declare that you've made a claim and thus causing the insurance to be higher risk? I've always wondered this.

lawrywild

155 posts

32 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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LPC6 said:
Do you not still have to declare that you've made a claim and thus causing the insurance to be higher risk? I've always wondered this.
I think there's other topics discussing this but as far as I'm aware (and I may be wrong) you don't have to declare as it's on private land and covered by a separate policy.

Edited by lawrywild on Thursday 24th December 20:42

foxsasha

1,370 posts

105 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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S1M VP said:
there were lots of black rubber marks all over the bonnet which took some getting off.
Get some of this. Spray on, leave briefly, wipe off. Utterly brilliant.

https://motherscarcare.co.uk/shop/mothers-r3-racin...

foxsasha

1,370 posts

105 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Kent Border Kenny said:
For my 650s I’ll not be having it inspected before or after, or taking out insurance.

Why are you thinking of changing the brakes?
I'll be using my just arrived 600LT on track a lot and with fit Surface Transforms rotors and Pagid pads all round. Around £12k to do but the rotors last well and can be refurbished repeatedly unlike the originals. Theyll also retain a resale value. The OE rotors and pads aren't particularly durable.

Pdelamare

646 posts

98 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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LPC6 said:
Do you not still have to declare that you've made a claim and thus causing the insurance to be higher risk? I've always wondered this.
Obviously I declared it, but they didn’t care.

blueg33

27,851 posts

194 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Every track day I have done has demonstrated that the fastest is down to the driver rather than the car.

I do see super cars but wouldn’t track my Ferrari and didn’t track my Evora. They wouldn’t touch my G33 for instance and especially the Ferrari I would expect consumables to be hit hard.

Andyoz

2,233 posts

24 months

Friday 25th December 2020
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Have you got space to store a car and trailer?

Dedicated track car makes alot more sense... especially if you can share with a similar minded petrol head.

Ash_

5,249 posts

160 months

Tuesday 5th January
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S1M VP said:
To the OP ...

As said in someone else’s post, for track driving and pushing hard, there is no substitute for a properly set-up race car ..

I run & race a 488 Challenge, which is simply epic to drive on track, 700bhp, on slicks, some downforce etc .. it’s just brilliant. BUT (and it’s a big but) the downside is the costs are eye watering.

It’s not road legal so needs to be transported, it hasn’t got door locks or handbrake etc and has a race refuelling system, so it really needs 2 technicians to run the car for the day. It eats through brake pads and tyres (rear pads often only last 1 day and if pushing hard and running some good stints, can go through 2 sets of slick tyres in a day). In all honesty, it is wasted on Trackdays given that most organisers only allow overtaking on the left (on the straights) and it’s almost impossible to get a full clean lap in and track days usually have a LOT of cars running. It also chews through control arms, bushes, uprights, hub assemblies etc, so running costs & maintenance costs are high, especially if hitting the curbs hard. The car shares many parts with its road going cousin, so I’d imagine running a 458/488 would be equally costly to run, if doing long days and lots of mileage.

Road Cars:

I did a trackday last year at Brands Hatch on the GP circuit in my 488 Spider.
I drove it fairly hard and hit the brakes hard, like I would the challenge car.
The car was brilliant in all respects, despite running the normal road spec setup and road tyres. I didn’t have anyone there to help, hadn’t had the car checked beforehand and I didn’t even mess too much with the tyre pressures.
It ran faultlessly, although I was black flagged for noise (108dB flyby) in the first of 4x 20 min sessions, so I had to miss the 2nd session to try to do ‘something’ (ended up running in wet mode and short-shifting in session 3 & 4, to avoid being kicked off circuit, although it somehow found itself back in “race mode” in the 2nd half of session 4). It wasn’t until I got home the next day, that I realised I’d cooked the brake callipers (they were nice & shiny yellow before the day, but ended up being burnt orange) and there were lots of black rubber marks all over the bonnet which took some getting off. Thankfully the car has full PPF. I absolutely loved driving the car, but this day proved that track driving is not kind on cars and noise limits can be a real pain.

I took my 720s to Snetterton for a days running.
The car was stupid fast compared to most other cars on track, especially down the straights, and it drove well, but occasionally during the day, the car seemed to limit the amount of power it’d give me mid-way through a session. Not sure why exactly, and there were no alarm messages, so a bit of a mystery ... Maybe it was just getting too hot. I’ve only done the one day in this car and pads & tyres were fine after, but I would have concerns about how tough the car is, so wouldn’t want to do many track days in it.

I took my Piloti to the SCD event at Donington and couldn’t say no, when offered a session on track. I have the carbon rims, but also have a set of the standard wheels which I bought, planning to take the car on a few trackdays.
The car had less than 200mls on it at the time as I’d only just picked it up, and I hadn’t swapped the wheels over, so I took it fairly easy.
The car was quick on the straights, but the setup felt surprisingly soft in the corners and I didn’t trust it - it felt like snap oversteer could be an issue if I pushed too hard. It would need a track biased geo setup, but I’ve now decided that I won’t be tracking that car, because I’m too precious over it. Not because of the cars capabilities, but more-so the risk of damage and adding lots of mileage will hammer the value of the car, which defeats the object.

I did a track day in a Cayman GT4 Clubsport last week at Snetterton, which is a race car and ran perfectly all day, but it again really needs a team to run it, but it is an awesome piece of kit. I suppose if you’re handy, have the right kit and a means of transporting it, the patience and inclination to do it yourself, you could run it for a day with a friends help, but it’s a lot of hassle. The balance was really good, so I can certtainly see why road-going Caymans are so popular for trackday cars.

The point of explaining all the above, is that if you’re too precious about whatever car you’re driving, or the running costs become a burden, you may end up not enjoying it as much as you would driving a different car.

For all these reasons, I’ve just bought a GT3RS specifically for Trackdays (although now I’ve driven it on the road, it’s brilliant on the road too).
My logic was to have a fairly quick car, that I can push hard and one that’s (hopefully) tough enough to take it without having to replace suspension parts after every 1-2 days of running. I wanted a car that I was not overly precious about adding mileage etc, a car which I can refuel myself and drive to the track and back, just to have some fun with my mates. I know it’ll never be as quick as a race car, but the purpose of this car is to have a fun trackday car, rather than setting the best possible lap time.
Only time will tell if I’ve made the right choice ... if I still feel too precious over it, I’ll change it for something a lot cheaper.

I can’t comment on the R8, as I’ve never driven one, but whichever car you end up going for ... I wouldn’t be so concerned over engine & gearbox mileage etc (providing it’s been properly maintained), just bear in mind that wishbones, joints, discs, pads, etc are all costly items in any Supercar or high end Sports Car (and that’s if you don’t bin it into a barrier, gravel etc and cause damage). Just because the car is £35k and has done most of its depreciating, replacement parts will be based on its new value and big bills may end up spoiling the overall experience, but that’s something only you can decide on.

Again, as someone else posted, also consider which track(s) you’re most likely to drive. For example, the challenge car is epic on longer tracks like Silverstone GP, but on shorter tracks like Brands Indy, it’s too fast and can’t be properly opened up.

Hope some of the above helps.

Good luck!
Bloody hell dude!! You are truly living the dream with the cars you track and the ones in your stable (yes, I did a bit of stalking of your profile). Good on you for having the balls to track stuff like that. However, a question if I may, with the funding you have why don't you race, or also why don't you get something which is more track focussed for track days? For example, I'd have a KTM X-Bow as a dedicated track car or (if I could afford it) a BAC Mono, I know the KTM isn't as quick as any of the cars in your stable, but for worry free track days it's gotta be a good shout.

ukkid35

5,631 posts

143 months

Wednesday 6th January
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Ash_ said:
However, a question if I may, with the funding you have why don't you race,
I'm guessing you'll be able to see him here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ha0hM0PhD8

Do a little research on the Ferrari Challenge and you'll see what he means about the costs

You also have to commit to a certain number of events each year, which can be difficult for people who can afford it

The only thing you don't have to do is pick up a spanner

You just turn up, and the car is there prepped and ready to go

Ash_

5,249 posts

160 months

Wednesday 6th January
quotequote all
ukkid35 said:
Ash_ said:
However, a question if I may, with the funding you have why don't you race,
I'm guessing you'll be able to see him here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ha0hM0PhD8

Do a little research on the Ferrari Challenge and you'll see what he means about the costs

You also have to commit to a certain number of events each year, which can be difficult for people who can afford it

The only thing you don't have to do is pick up a spanner

You just turn up, and the car is there prepped and ready to go
Ah, understood, thanks. thumbup