Track day car 1-3k
Discussion
FNG said:
I think that might be your issue - the rear roll stiffness is higher than the front, so the front does more rolling, which unloads the front inner wheel.
Ideally you want the front to stay planted and the rear inner wheel to unload, if anything - which means you need less rear roll stiffness.
Ideally you want the front to stay planted and the rear inner wheel to unload, if anything - which means you need less rear roll stiffness.
phazed said:
Good point. Twas my first TD in this car.
The rear bar is adjustable and is on its middle setting. I will put it on the softest setting before Castle Combe next month.
Sorry chaps - you've got this the wrong way round.The rear bar is adjustable and is on its middle setting. I will put it on the softest setting before Castle Combe next month.
Higher front stiffness will transfer more load onto the outer tyre unloading the inner front wheel, promoting wheelspin. It will also cause excess understeer.
To combat this failing, you need to increase rear roll stiffness. Rate of springs and ARBs dominate steady-state cornering whereas damping has most influence on transients.
Make the transition towards more biased rear roll stiffness gradually. Go too far and FWD cars spin like tops when lifting off the throttle.
Take a look at photos of any quick FWD race cars including BTCC. You should notice their inside rear wheels lift off when cornering due to very high rear roll stiffness - effectively they are cornering on three wheels.
phazed said:
Makes sense. I shall put it on the lowest setting and hope that is enough to give it a little more traction .
Correct that, I will put it on the higher, stiffer setting to stop rear end roll and hopefully compensate for the front.I suppose I could go back to the 19 mm front ARB after trying that if things don’t improve. Who knows. “people“ Say the standard 19 mm front ARB is too soft and to go to the 23 mm ArB which I have fitted. What do I know!
t. I know they handle better but I would have to live with myself! No offence to Clio owners!phazed said:
phazed said:
Makes sense. I shall put it on the lowest setting and hope that is enough to give it a little more traction .
Correct that, I will put it on the higher, stiffer setting to stop rear end roll and hopefully compensate for the front.I suppose I could go back to the 19 mm front ARB after trying that if things don’t improve. Who knows. “people“ Say the standard 19 mm front ARB is too soft and to go to the 23 mm ArB which I have fitted. What do I know!
Worth noting that front and rear roll angles are the same unless the body is made of jelly. It's the ratio of front/rear roll stiffness which affects handling balance and traction.
There are many in the Mini Cooper S (R53) tuning/TD community that (if they can't afford a stiffer rear ARB) fit the front ARB from the Cooper which is thinner to achieve the same.
The lifting of the rear inner wheel on hard cornering also reduces rear grip slightly & this moves the car's chassis back a notch away from under steer becoming more neutral when cornering. Yes, if not careful it can make the car more willing to rotate, but a bit more negative camber at the rear can dial this back out again.
The lifting of the rear inner wheel on hard cornering also reduces rear grip slightly & this moves the car's chassis back a notch away from under steer becoming more neutral when cornering. Yes, if not careful it can make the car more willing to rotate, but a bit more negative camber at the rear can dial this back out again.
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