Thinking about buying a car just for trackdays...
Discussion
chaosss said:
Hello mate,
I was at Combe on Friday in my 318is....
I believe you were with me when I stacked it into the tyre wall weren't you? Sorry I am rubbish with names and I can't remember your username so excuse me if I am being rude!
Try www.bmwtrackdays.com
Evo mag have signed up there with there M3 looking at modifications. I insure mine as a road car, costs £300 a year with all mods declared, and parts are cheap (just bought a new door for £20 ;-)
)
Yep It was me in the car with you when we went flying into the tyres passenger door (me) first. Was trying to be polite and didnt mention it, but yeah hence another reason for a trackday car with a rollcage, safety!
But it was still a thoroughly enjoyable lap and Im pleased you found a replacement door for a reasonable price. Will email you re bmwtrackdays.
Cheers,
Brendon
No need to worry about being polite mate. It happened and I will admit it was completely my fault. BUT it happened on a track not on the road so it is part of the day for me and we all walked away so no harm done.
I have to admit part of the appeal for me is having such a cheap car means that incidents like Friday don't matter. Okay so it is one of the slower cars on the track but for me it is all about learning the limits of a car and controlling them, whether that limit is at 50mph or 100mph, the limit is the limit. And at the lower speed it won't hurt as much when you get it wrong. Also because you don't worry about the car at all I find you can push it harder because it doesn't matter. Obviously if I had the money I would have a much better car, a Caterham would be fantastic, but just trying to say that it is possible to have a lot of fun on a small budget.
I would definitely budget for the safety aspect of it though. Some people would spend all their money on improving the performance of the car but not safety. It isn't worth skimping on it. For the sake of 1k you can have a roll cage and stuff installed. If you did roll it suddenly that 1k seems like very good value.
I have to admit part of the appeal for me is having such a cheap car means that incidents like Friday don't matter. Okay so it is one of the slower cars on the track but for me it is all about learning the limits of a car and controlling them, whether that limit is at 50mph or 100mph, the limit is the limit. And at the lower speed it won't hurt as much when you get it wrong. Also because you don't worry about the car at all I find you can push it harder because it doesn't matter. Obviously if I had the money I would have a much better car, a Caterham would be fantastic, but just trying to say that it is possible to have a lot of fun on a small budget.
I would definitely budget for the safety aspect of it though. Some people would spend all their money on improving the performance of the car but not safety. It isn't worth skimping on it. For the sake of 1k you can have a roll cage and stuff installed. If you did roll it suddenly that 1k seems like very good value.
Shaun_E said:
I then thought about a cheap Westfield/Tiger/Locost but they need some skilled setup to get the best out of them and still use many road car components. Caterhams have a reputation of handling well on track "out of the box" although further setup can make a big difference.
Caterhams use a lot of road components too. And a lot of the racing parts are also available for Westies and Locosts.
I recommed you look at locostbuilders.com where there is a lot of information on the subject. I understand MK Engineering has a very good reputation and the Stuart Taylor chassis always did well in the racing series.
A locost can handle extremely well and learning to set it up is part of the fun of trackdays. Just keep a notebook of what you've done each time you change it.
There are plenty of ex-racers available fairly cheaply. They can be used on trackdays and for racing. Make sure it has a full cage if buying a racer as the 750 club has made them compulsary. Also avoid steel panelled cars.
The big advantage of a Locost over a Caterham is if you stuff it the parts are extremely cheap. (The chassis is the most expensive bit at about £400) There are quite a few firms who make parts for them whereas with a Caterham you need to go to Caterham.
Additionally you can make your own bits, which is even cheaper. And a whole variety of engines can be made to fit.
I think you should work up from what's the cheapest way of doing this, ignoring the outright performance cause it's the experience that you are paying for. Okay, so lets look at the costs involved.
Depreciation : BUY a cheaper car.
Would suggest a few under £500. But my choice would be :
Old Capri (mate's just sold a 2.8i needing a little welding for £300 - could have had it MOT'd for another £300 if you paid someone to fix it or £100 if you spent a weekend doing it)
Old BMW 5 series (CHEAP as chips)
Mk2 Cavalier . A mate is selling a 1.6 L saloon with 2.0 SEH 130 BHP 8V with LOTS of spares for £300 with a months tax and 11 months MOT.
Insurance : Get an OLD car on a Classic Policy. Mk2 Cavalier will cost £200 fully comp on a low mileage policy - may not cover track days but hey it's a £300 quid car !!!
Tax : Tough Shit £190 a year.
Repairs : I avoid expensive rare cars as spares are always more, but my SRi mk2 Cav is VERY cheap to run. I got a clutch for £19 off ebay, mk3 front brakes for a tenner (plus £22 quid for GM pads), Oil cooler for £20, 4 15 inch alloys for £15 (need tyres)
Lets say you spend max £600 a year to keep it road legal.
10 track days = £60 plus petrol and green fees.
Not going to be £500 a session is it.
Plus : Could you get a MATE to go halves ?
I take the point of where do you park a stripped out car with a roll cage. Council Lock Ups range from £4 a week to £8 a week, but just drive into the sticks and knock on a farmers door ? Can I leave a car in a barn for say £200 a year ?
Depreciation : BUY a cheaper car.
Would suggest a few under £500. But my choice would be :
Old Capri (mate's just sold a 2.8i needing a little welding for £300 - could have had it MOT'd for another £300 if you paid someone to fix it or £100 if you spent a weekend doing it)
Old BMW 5 series (CHEAP as chips)
Mk2 Cavalier . A mate is selling a 1.6 L saloon with 2.0 SEH 130 BHP 8V with LOTS of spares for £300 with a months tax and 11 months MOT.
Insurance : Get an OLD car on a Classic Policy. Mk2 Cavalier will cost £200 fully comp on a low mileage policy - may not cover track days but hey it's a £300 quid car !!!
Tax : Tough Shit £190 a year.
Repairs : I avoid expensive rare cars as spares are always more, but my SRi mk2 Cav is VERY cheap to run. I got a clutch for £19 off ebay, mk3 front brakes for a tenner (plus £22 quid for GM pads), Oil cooler for £20, 4 15 inch alloys for £15 (need tyres)
Lets say you spend max £600 a year to keep it road legal.
10 track days = £60 plus petrol and green fees.
Not going to be £500 a session is it.
Plus : Could you get a MATE to go halves ?
I take the point of where do you park a stripped out car with a roll cage. Council Lock Ups range from £4 a week to £8 a week, but just drive into the sticks and knock on a farmers door ? Can I leave a car in a barn for say £200 a year ?
jacko lah said:
I think you should work up from what's the cheapest way of doing this, ignoring the outright performance cause it's the experience that you are paying for. Okay, so lets look at the costs involved.
Depreciation : BUY a cheaper car.
Would suggest a few under £500. But my choice would be :
Old Capri (mate's just sold a 2.8i needing a little welding for £300 - could have had it MOT'd for another £300 if you paid someone to fix it or £100 if you spent a weekend doing it)
Old BMW 5 series (CHEAP as chips)
Mk2 Cavalier . A mate is selling a 1.6 L saloon with 2.0 SEH 130 BHP 8V with LOTS of spares for £300 with a months tax and 11 months MOT.
Insurance : Get an OLD car on a Classic Policy. Mk2 Cavalier will cost £200 fully comp on a low mileage policy - may not cover track days but hey it's a £300 quid car !!!
Tax : Tough Shit £190 a year.
Repairs : I avoid expensive rare cars as spares are always more, but my SRi mk2 Cav is VERY cheap to run. I got a clutch for £19 off ebay, mk3 front brakes for a tenner (plus £22 quid for GM pads), Oil cooler for £20, 4 15 inch alloys for £15 (need tyres)
Lets say you spend max £600 a year to keep it road legal.
10 track days = £60 plus petrol and green fees.
Not going to be £500 a session is it.
Plus : Could you get a MATE to go halves ?
I take the point of where do you park a stripped out car with a roll cage. Council Lock Ups range from £4 a week to £8 a week, but just drive into the sticks and knock on a farmers door ? Can I leave a car in a barn for say £200 a year ?
Where do you get trackdays for £60?
Capri is a good idea, so is the 5 series or even an XJ6.
pistol pete said:
I rent a council garage in St Albans (20 mins from North London) for £7/week. .
How did you find the garage? I need one near Oxford for the same purpose and
Pete
YOU phone the council.
I am on a waiting list for one close to my home (1 mile) but could get one 5 miles away in a dodgy area with out waiting. I also phoned the council for the area I work and they have some available but it's not close enough to work for me to spend my lunch half hour in the lock up.
jacko lah said:
fergus said:
I rent a council garage in St Albans (20 mins from North London) for £7/week. .
How did you find the garage? I need one near Oxford for the same purpose
Pete
YOU phone the council.
I was under the impression from there web site that you could only get one if you were a council tennent. I'll need to talk to them,
Pete
Another option along the "go racing" lines is monoposto, details here :- www.halihat.f2s.com/club.htm#How%20little%20it%20really%20costs
If I had a bit more time I'd be quite tempted.
--
Richard
If I had a bit more time I'd be quite tempted.
--
Richard
www.stalbans.gov.uk/living/housing/public/garages.htm
You need to ask the council for blocks of garages that haven't had any problems, or are not known as hot spots for kids hanging around, etc.
Costs for non-council tenants are around 1.50/week more expensive. Even so, the annual cost is only around £440 - cheaper than me moving house, and the arrangement is flexible and convenient. 20 mins from North london.
PM me if you want more details
I think you have to accept that there are costs involved in having a dedicated trackcar. Think very hard before you agree to split the costs with a mate. decide exactly what will and won't be covered. You don't want to fall out if the worst were to happen!
You need to ask the council for blocks of garages that haven't had any problems, or are not known as hot spots for kids hanging around, etc.
Costs for non-council tenants are around 1.50/week more expensive. Even so, the annual cost is only around £440 - cheaper than me moving house, and the arrangement is flexible and convenient. 20 mins from North london.
PM me if you want more details
I think you have to accept that there are costs involved in having a dedicated trackcar. Think very hard before you agree to split the costs with a mate. decide exactly what will and won't be covered. You don't want to fall out if the worst were to happen!
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