Opinions... Trackday, was I treated fairly?
Discussion
Jonesol1 said:
Kellerman,
I was between two minds to post a response here, I'm 95% sure you will dismiss the below as driver excuses, that you know better or you're just posting for clicks/likes/internet points. On the off chance that you'll read it with an open mind, I thought it would be worth you having the perspective of someone that was there on the day and was overtaken by you.
I was driving the first 911 you overtook, I think it was the first session after lunch and the first lap you were following me I was warming up the car. I did think you were travelling quicker than me on the exit of church so moved to the side by school to let you past, you didn't so I assumed you were happy to stay behind me at that point.
Once we caught up with the Audi TT, my intention was to wait through the corkscrew and pass on the start finish straight, I wasn't convinced they had seen me when I got to the straight so was happy to wait again until after the pit exit. I did not expect you to pass me as I moved out to overtake the TT, especially using the pit exit lane to do so. I had to brake quite heavily before the banking to give you, the TT and myself some space for the corner. My passenger's words were along the lines of "where the f*** did that idiot come from" when you got past. After you did that I was very happy to stay a very safe distance behind you and try and avoid any accident(s) you might cause. I'm not going to comment on the rest of your overtakes as others have done so fairly in my opinion.
When I got in from that stint I mentioned to the other guys I was with your overtake and they said don't worry the TDO has just had a word with him, which I thought was fair after what I saw. My genuine concern was that you were putting yourself and others in danger out on track. After watching the video I thought they treated you favourably, I've seen some sent home for less than what you did. For the rest of the afternoon I checked the paddock before going out to make sure your car was parked, I didn't want to be out on the track at the same time as you.
Totally up to you how you take the above, do you really want to be that guy that people aren't happy to share a track with?
Not here to start an internet fight, the above is what I thought on the day. I'm at Anglesey again in September with Javelin and quite happy to take you out in a slow 911 if you want.
he's simply a vastly more talented driver than you bud...I was between two minds to post a response here, I'm 95% sure you will dismiss the below as driver excuses, that you know better or you're just posting for clicks/likes/internet points. On the off chance that you'll read it with an open mind, I thought it would be worth you having the perspective of someone that was there on the day and was overtaken by you.
I was driving the first 911 you overtook, I think it was the first session after lunch and the first lap you were following me I was warming up the car. I did think you were travelling quicker than me on the exit of church so moved to the side by school to let you past, you didn't so I assumed you were happy to stay behind me at that point.
Once we caught up with the Audi TT, my intention was to wait through the corkscrew and pass on the start finish straight, I wasn't convinced they had seen me when I got to the straight so was happy to wait again until after the pit exit. I did not expect you to pass me as I moved out to overtake the TT, especially using the pit exit lane to do so. I had to brake quite heavily before the banking to give you, the TT and myself some space for the corner. My passenger's words were along the lines of "where the f*** did that idiot come from" when you got past. After you did that I was very happy to stay a very safe distance behind you and try and avoid any accident(s) you might cause. I'm not going to comment on the rest of your overtakes as others have done so fairly in my opinion.
When I got in from that stint I mentioned to the other guys I was with your overtake and they said don't worry the TDO has just had a word with him, which I thought was fair after what I saw. My genuine concern was that you were putting yourself and others in danger out on track. After watching the video I thought they treated you favourably, I've seen some sent home for less than what you did. For the rest of the afternoon I checked the paddock before going out to make sure your car was parked, I didn't want to be out on the track at the same time as you.
Totally up to you how you take the above, do you really want to be that guy that people aren't happy to share a track with?
Not here to start an internet fight, the above is what I thought on the day. I'm at Anglesey again in September with Javelin and quite happy to take you out in a slow 911 if you want.
Jonesol1 said:
Kellerman,
I was between two minds to post a response here, I'm 95% sure you will dismiss the below as driver excuses, that you know better or you're just posting for clicks/likes/internet points. On the off chance that you'll read it with an open mind, I thought it would be worth you having the perspective of someone that was there on the day and was overtaken by you.
I was driving the first 911 you overtook, I think it was the first session after lunch and the first lap you were following me I was warming up the car. I did think you were travelling quicker than me on the exit of church so moved to the side by school to let you past, you didn't so I assumed you were happy to stay behind me at that point.
Once we caught up with the Audi TT, my intention was to wait through the corkscrew and pass on the start finish straight, I wasn't convinced they had seen me when I got to the straight so was happy to wait again until after the pit exit. I did not expect you to pass me as I moved out to overtake the TT, especially using the pit exit lane to do so. I had to brake quite heavily before the banking to give you, the TT and myself some space for the corner. My passenger's words were along the lines of "where the f*** did that idiot come from" when you got past. After you did that I was very happy to stay a very safe distance behind you and try and avoid any accident(s) you might cause. I'm not going to comment on the rest of your overtakes as others have done so fairly in my opinion.
When I got in from that stint I mentioned to the other guys I was with your overtake and they said don't worry the TDO has just had a word with him, which I thought was fair after what I saw. My genuine concern was that you were putting yourself and others in danger out on track. After watching the video I thought they treated you favourably, I've seen some sent home for less than what you did. For the rest of the afternoon I checked the paddock before going out to make sure your car was parked, I didn't want to be out on the track at the same time as you.
Totally up to you how you take the above, do you really want to be that guy that people aren't happy to share a track with?
Not here to start an internet fight, the above is what I thought on the day. I'm at Anglesey again in September with Javelin and quite happy to take you out in a slow 911 if you want.
I was between two minds to post a response here, I'm 95% sure you will dismiss the below as driver excuses, that you know better or you're just posting for clicks/likes/internet points. On the off chance that you'll read it with an open mind, I thought it would be worth you having the perspective of someone that was there on the day and was overtaken by you.
I was driving the first 911 you overtook, I think it was the first session after lunch and the first lap you were following me I was warming up the car. I did think you were travelling quicker than me on the exit of church so moved to the side by school to let you past, you didn't so I assumed you were happy to stay behind me at that point.
Once we caught up with the Audi TT, my intention was to wait through the corkscrew and pass on the start finish straight, I wasn't convinced they had seen me when I got to the straight so was happy to wait again until after the pit exit. I did not expect you to pass me as I moved out to overtake the TT, especially using the pit exit lane to do so. I had to brake quite heavily before the banking to give you, the TT and myself some space for the corner. My passenger's words were along the lines of "where the f*** did that idiot come from" when you got past. After you did that I was very happy to stay a very safe distance behind you and try and avoid any accident(s) you might cause. I'm not going to comment on the rest of your overtakes as others have done so fairly in my opinion.
When I got in from that stint I mentioned to the other guys I was with your overtake and they said don't worry the TDO has just had a word with him, which I thought was fair after what I saw. My genuine concern was that you were putting yourself and others in danger out on track. After watching the video I thought they treated you favourably, I've seen some sent home for less than what you did. For the rest of the afternoon I checked the paddock before going out to make sure your car was parked, I didn't want to be out on the track at the same time as you.
Totally up to you how you take the above, do you really want to be that guy that people aren't happy to share a track with?
Not here to start an internet fight, the above is what I thought on the day. I'm at Anglesey again in September with Javelin and quite happy to take you out in a slow 911 if you want.
Jonesol1 said:
Kellerman,
I was between two minds to post a response here, I'm 95% sure you will dismiss the below as driver excuses, that you know better or you're just posting for clicks/likes/internet points. On the off chance that you'll read it with an open mind, I thought it would be worth you having the perspective of someone that was there on the day and was overtaken by you.
I was driving the first 911 you overtook, I think it was the first session after lunch and the first lap you were following me I was warming up the car. I did think you were travelling quicker than me on the exit of church so moved to the side by school to let you past, you didn't so I assumed you were happy to stay behind me at that point.
Once we caught up with the Audi TT, my intention was to wait through the corkscrew and pass on the start finish straight, I wasn't convinced they had seen me when I got to the straight so was happy to wait again until after the pit exit. I did not expect you to pass me as I moved out to overtake the TT, especially using the pit exit lane to do so. I had to brake quite heavily before the banking to give you, the TT and myself some space for the corner. My passenger's words were along the lines of "where the f*** did that idiot come from" when you got past. After you did that I was very happy to stay a very safe distance behind you and try and avoid any accident(s) you might cause. I'm not going to comment on the rest of your overtakes as others have done so fairly in my opinion.
When I got in from that stint I mentioned to the other guys I was with your overtake and they said don't worry the TDO has just had a word with him, which I thought was fair after what I saw. My genuine concern was that you were putting yourself and others in danger out on track. After watching the video I thought they treated you favourably, I've seen some sent home for less than what you did. For the rest of the afternoon I checked the paddock before going out to make sure your car was parked, I didn't want to be out on the track at the same time as you.
Totally up to you how you take the above, do you really want to be that guy that people aren't happy to share a track with?
Not here to start an internet fight, the above is what I thought on the day. I'm at Anglesey again in September with Javelin and quite happy to take you out in a slow 911 if you want.
I was between two minds to post a response here, I'm 95% sure you will dismiss the below as driver excuses, that you know better or you're just posting for clicks/likes/internet points. On the off chance that you'll read it with an open mind, I thought it would be worth you having the perspective of someone that was there on the day and was overtaken by you.
I was driving the first 911 you overtook, I think it was the first session after lunch and the first lap you were following me I was warming up the car. I did think you were travelling quicker than me on the exit of church so moved to the side by school to let you past, you didn't so I assumed you were happy to stay behind me at that point.
Once we caught up with the Audi TT, my intention was to wait through the corkscrew and pass on the start finish straight, I wasn't convinced they had seen me when I got to the straight so was happy to wait again until after the pit exit. I did not expect you to pass me as I moved out to overtake the TT, especially using the pit exit lane to do so. I had to brake quite heavily before the banking to give you, the TT and myself some space for the corner. My passenger's words were along the lines of "where the f*** did that idiot come from" when you got past. After you did that I was very happy to stay a very safe distance behind you and try and avoid any accident(s) you might cause. I'm not going to comment on the rest of your overtakes as others have done so fairly in my opinion.
When I got in from that stint I mentioned to the other guys I was with your overtake and they said don't worry the TDO has just had a word with him, which I thought was fair after what I saw. My genuine concern was that you were putting yourself and others in danger out on track. After watching the video I thought they treated you favourably, I've seen some sent home for less than what you did. For the rest of the afternoon I checked the paddock before going out to make sure your car was parked, I didn't want to be out on the track at the same time as you.
Totally up to you how you take the above, do you really want to be that guy that people aren't happy to share a track with?
Not here to start an internet fight, the above is what I thought on the day. I'm at Anglesey again in September with Javelin and quite happy to take you out in a slow 911 if you want.
What a first post!Careful for the offer, don't let him touch the radio.......
Well
Just managed to watch the video.
Simply, I think you were fairly treated. They thought you were a bit too aggressive for their track day and asked you to back off a bit.
Which is probably fair. If I had been driving my polo, it wouldn't have bothered me, but if I had been in my 89 Carrera I would have been concerned that an unknown driver was quite as close as you were. If someone had missed you moving into their blind spot and had run out from the apex to the edge of the track with you on their outside then their could have been a coming together.
Yes, the person in front should be aware, but a track day isn't a race and you were pushing it just too much.
Just managed to watch the video.
Simply, I think you were fairly treated. They thought you were a bit too aggressive for their track day and asked you to back off a bit.
Which is probably fair. If I had been driving my polo, it wouldn't have bothered me, but if I had been in my 89 Carrera I would have been concerned that an unknown driver was quite as close as you were. If someone had missed you moving into their blind spot and had run out from the apex to the edge of the track with you on their outside then their could have been a coming together.
Yes, the person in front should be aware, but a track day isn't a race and you were pushing it just too much.
Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 21st June 18:08
Royce44 said:
I’d say the fact there was no accident points less towards your driving and more towards the observations and awareness of the other cars on track.
That's interesting. So they were observant enough to see me behind them and "save me from an accident". That's incredible for novices!But not observant enough to realise I'm faster and move over?
Kind of like a selective observation. I like it.
Edited by Kellerman on Tuesday 21st June 20:39
roadsmash said:
Starting to feel sorry for the OP, it’s verging on public humiliation now.
Not at all.I've got a list as long as my arm of false claims made against me. From the moment the TDO spoke to me, to many of the frothing replies on here. The hysteria, assumptions and hypocrisy is very amusing. Very PH.
Going forward I'm relishing the challenge to take the Audi on more track days and find more queues of "novices on warm up laps"
Got 3 more booked in the near future.Might even get a PH sticker for just above the tow bar.
by looks of it neither have you!! Kellerman said:
Not at all.
I've got a list as long as my arm of false claims made against me. From the moment the TDO spoke to me, to many of the frothing replies on here. The hysteria, assumptions and hypocrisy is very amusing. Very PH.
Going forward I'm relishing the challenge to take the Audi on more track days and find more queues of "novices on warm up laps" Got 3 more booked in the near future.
Might even get a PH sticker for just above the tow bar.
There are no false claimsI've got a list as long as my arm of false claims made against me. From the moment the TDO spoke to me, to many of the frothing replies on here. The hysteria, assumptions and hypocrisy is very amusing. Very PH.
Going forward I'm relishing the challenge to take the Audi on more track days and find more queues of "novices on warm up laps"
Got 3 more booked in the near future.Might even get a PH sticker for just above the tow bar.
You handily uploaded the evidence
"i knooooooo these aaaaaahdi's I've dun hoondred faaaasahnd miles in um"
There used to be a fast Sierra Cosworth back in the day with ”move over" written backwards on the bonnet like an ambulance has…maybe we could start a "Kellerman" trend written backwards on the bonnet to let people know we are coming through?
Edited by Caddyshack on Tuesday 21st June 21:00
Kellerman said:
Jonesol1 said:
Not here to start an internet fight, the above is what I thought on the day. I'm at Anglesey again in September with Javelin and quite happy to take you out in a slow 911 if you want.
I can't argue with your first hand account of your experience 
Kellerman said:
roadsmash said:
Starting to feel sorry for the OP, it’s verging on public humiliation now.
Not at all.I've got a list as long as my arm of false claims made against me. From the moment the TDO spoke to me, to many of the frothing replies on here. The hysteria, assumptions and hypocrisy is very amusing. Very PH.
Going forward I'm relishing the challenge to take the Audi on more track days and find more queues of "novices on warm up laps"
Got 3 more booked in the near future.Might even get a PH sticker for just above the tow bar.
The first one I went on in a Z3M I thought I would be quick as I had done a lot of track days….I spent most of the day with my indicator on letting people through. It took me a few years of 1 track day a month to get fully up to their pace. Ex-F1 drivers used to turn up and were free with advice and tuition. I spent a fair bit of time with the world Rallycross champion etc…it is a good place to learn. Flemke has used to do a lot of them with us and brought along his Mac F1….it was not unusual to see a few F1’s and Martin brundle drove an F1 car once with normal cars on track.
Caddyshack said:
Book on one of these days…they are quite humbling. https://www.rmatrackdays.com/
I think he's buggered trying to get an entry with them."RMA Track Days strive to maintain a friendly and social environment. We believe attitude and consideration to fellow track day enthusiasts is far more important than the type of car being used and an exceptionally high standard of track etiquette is expected from everyone taking part."
C70R said:
If people stopped responding (and trying to make themselves look smart) to his obvious windup tactics, this thread and that awful video would just disappear.
He's obviously desperate for attention, for whatever reason, and will do anything to keep people replying.
I'm retired, I've only time to waste He's obviously desperate for attention, for whatever reason, and will do anything to keep people replying.
Kellerman said:
That's interesting. So they were observant enough to see me behind them and "save me from an accident". That's incredible for novices!
But not observant enough to realise I'm faster and move over?
Kind of like a selective observation. I like it.
Just because they have seen you doesn’t mean they are ready to let you past instantly, you will find not many people will approaching a braking zone or already in one, or on a bit of a bend.But not observant enough to realise I'm faster and move over?
Kind of like a selective observation. I like it.
Edited by Kellerman on Tuesday 21st June 20:39
They will have listened in the briefing that overtaking there is not allowed and be thinking, oh Audi up my chuff, I’ll just get through this corner then let him through as I’ve been told. And then you just threw it up the inside before they had the chance.
Most of the ones you gave this chance to did move out of your way pretty quickly compared to a lot of people I’ve wanted to overtake on track.
Wow this has attracted a lot of replies! I cba reading it all but will say my opinion whether someone else has said the same or not I don't know but some on here can be over zealous.
To me looks like a novice day? Or novice session? As the pace looks slow and the cars all look very road biased. You do genuinely get a few people who are new and quite nervous on casual days and so quite slow typically anyway, as they're nervous they're usually quite courteous and try to stay out the quick guys way I've found.
Your overtaking is definitely too aggressive, it's more like how see muti class racing fighting to get a competitive qualifying time in chaotic traffic.
Even though your a4 is not going to have more pace than a porsche on the straights but most (not all but definitely most) will see you're way faster around a lap and indicate or give you space to get by safely. Overtaking should not really happen in a braking zone it should be done when under power not under braking or turning, accidents can happen quickly if everyone overtook in braking zones like that especially when inexperienced circuit drivers are involved.
Mean all this with absolute no disrespect in the slightest which is more then I can say for some chaps here! Going forward I would just say try and have a bit more respect for others on a track day and make sure you know they are aware of you and where you are before over taking and you'll have frustration and problem free track days in future
To me looks like a novice day? Or novice session? As the pace looks slow and the cars all look very road biased. You do genuinely get a few people who are new and quite nervous on casual days and so quite slow typically anyway, as they're nervous they're usually quite courteous and try to stay out the quick guys way I've found.
Your overtaking is definitely too aggressive, it's more like how see muti class racing fighting to get a competitive qualifying time in chaotic traffic.
Even though your a4 is not going to have more pace than a porsche on the straights but most (not all but definitely most) will see you're way faster around a lap and indicate or give you space to get by safely. Overtaking should not really happen in a braking zone it should be done when under power not under braking or turning, accidents can happen quickly if everyone overtook in braking zones like that especially when inexperienced circuit drivers are involved.
Mean all this with absolute no disrespect in the slightest which is more then I can say for some chaps here! Going forward I would just say try and have a bit more respect for others on a track day and make sure you know they are aware of you and where you are before over taking and you'll have frustration and problem free track days in future
Edited by Clarkgti on Tuesday 21st June 23:20
Kellerman said:
Royce44 said:
I’d say the fact there was no accident points less towards your driving and more towards the observations and awareness of the other cars on track.
That's interesting. So they were observant enough to see me behind them and "save me from an accident". That's incredible for novices!But not observant enough to realise I'm faster and move over?
Kind of like a selective observation. I like it.
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