Nürburgring 2023

[C70R]

RacerMike said:

BobToc said:

C70R said:

What about this guy? Are you similarly angry with him for generating tens of thousands of views by driving similarly (and very visibly timing himself)? https://youtu.be/O6j7aPt8S30?si=N1Ig8cbFmz7q7Agv

Or is it just Misha you're angry with?

If they were coming up in my Facebook and YouTube algorithm as much as Misha, then sure.

Just watched that. Nice empty track in his own car driving within his capabilities and doesn't overtake a single other person.

C70R...you're completely missing the point people have with Mishas videos either out of intent or ignorance. I'm not sure anyone is saying there's a problem with people driving fast at the 'Ring. My issue is. and always has been, his attitude to other TF users and the fact he regularly drives beyond his own ability. At no point in the video you linked does the driver either have a moment on his own, or with anyone else, and is arguably a great example of when it's suitable and appropriate to push. And the point is moot given that Misha should be the one setting an example of how things are done given his profile.

Anyone who can't see the difference between the above video and one of Mishas probably should stick to doing very slow laps in TF.

And what would have happened if he'd rounded one of the many blind, high-commitment corners, to find a dawdler on a slow lap, or a crashed/broken-down car in the middle of the track?

I've done enough laps to know that this bloke Misha (who I'm no great fan of) is a long way from being the only person driving fast cars beyond his abilities on TF sessions. But he's a built a successful profile from doing it, and it's quite obviously endorsed by the owners/organisers of the place, so he's an easy target for people on the internet. It's much easier to take pot-shots at a bloke with a social media profile than it is to admit that the problem with TF is intrinsic to the way it's run.

Also, nice attempt at condescending gatekeeping right at the end there. That's exactly what this topic needs.

[CKY]

324SRR said:

I went through Rent4Ring and 4 laps in a Cooper S, with an instructor and reducing the insurance excess basically cost EUR1,000.

Which made it quite an expensive morning, however removed the risk of me totalling my own car (also I don't think the XC90 would have been quite as much fun!)

Another vote for R4R, rented a Swift Sport from them previously. It was nice as has been mentioned to be able to jump in a car knowing the brakes/tyres/suspension were up to the task ahead, without the worry of having to sort out getting the car recovered/other ways of getting home in the event of an accident.

Also so happened that the TF session I went out in was absolutely dead, on account of the fact that the 'registration session/drivers briefing' for the following day's trackday that was going on; this meant 90% of the drivers in the area were occupied for the entirety of TF, so much so over the course of 4 laps I got overtaken once. In a 1.6 N/A Suzuki Swift. Not a Golden Pineapple-chaser in sight, bliss

[RacerMike]

C70R said:

RacerMike said:

BobToc said:

C70R said:

What about this guy? Are you similarly angry with him for generating tens of thousands of views by driving similarly (and very visibly timing himself)? https://youtu.be/O6j7aPt8S30?si=N1Ig8cbFmz7q7Agv

Or is it just Misha you're angry with?

If they were coming up in my Facebook and YouTube algorithm as much as Misha, then sure.

Just watched that. Nice empty track in his own car driving within his capabilities and doesn't overtake a single other person.

C70R...you're completely missing the point people have with Mishas videos either out of intent or ignorance. I'm not sure anyone is saying there's a problem with people driving fast at the 'Ring. My issue is. and always has been, his attitude to other TF users and the fact he regularly drives beyond his own ability. At no point in the video you linked does the driver either have a moment on his own, or with anyone else, and is arguably a great example of when it's suitable and appropriate to push. And the point is moot given that Misha should be the one setting an example of how things are done given his profile.

Anyone who can't see the difference between the above video and one of Mishas probably should stick to doing very slow laps in TF.

And what would have happened if he'd rounded one of the many blind, high-commitment corners, to find a dawdler on a slow lap, or a crashed/broken-down car in the middle of the track?

I've done enough laps to know that this bloke Misha (who I'm no great fan of) is a long way from being the only person driving fast cars beyond his abilities on TF sessions. But he's a built a successful profile from doing it, and it's quite obviously endorsed by the owners/organisers of the place, so he's an easy target for people on the internet. It's much easier to take pot-shots at a bloke with a social media profile than it is to admit that the problem with TF is intrinsic to the way it's run.

Also, nice attempt at condescending gatekeeping right at the end there. That's exactly what this topic needs.

The discussion here isn't about driving fast at the Nurburgring though, so stop with the strawman. The issue is specifically his attitude to traffic and and other drivers around him. In his mind (and many of his viewers) he's right, everyone else is wrong. This has absolutely nothing to do with the general risks involved in just physically driving quick on a circuit but you're trying to conflate the two points to support your view.

And as for gatekeeping? Sure. Why would any of us want inexperienced over confident people who've watched a Misha video on track? It's exactly the issue here.

I don't really know why we're getting heated here? We can disagree on whether you should drive fast on a circuit (a separate point), but surely you're not saying that his driving in many of his more recent videos is OK? We surely agree on that?

[Far Cough]

Digga said:

Who says. Cup 2’s don’t work in the wet?

Did a full tank of fuel on Friday. Was an absolutely immersive experience, in more than one sense at times.

It was minging on Friday and the latter part of the circuit was shrouded in cloud limiting visibility to pretty much the width and nothing else.
I managed a few laps but the rear was sliding at 33mph in some early corners which was not confidence inspiring. Cup 2's were not great !!!
A couple of guys on Michelin 4s' were going well and I saw one of the Yaris GR's had full wets on.
My BTG time was an impressive 14 mins initially !!

Shame for a UK GR Yaris binned it near the end of the day and it didn't look pretty , almost at the end of the lap. Think he got caught out in the conditions which gave the impression of a drying track. Not so !

[Digga]

Far Cough said:

Digga said:

Who says. Cup 2’s don’t work in the wet?

Did a full tank of fuel on Friday. Was an absolutely immersive experience, in more than one sense at times.

It was minging on Friday and the latter part of the circuit was shrouded in cloud limiting visibility to pretty much the width and nothing else.
I managed a few laps but the rear was sliding at 33mph in some early corners which was not confidence inspiring. Cup 2's were not great !!!
A couple of guys on Michelin 4s' were going well and I saw one of the Yaris GR's had full wets on.
My BTG time was an impressive 14 mins initially !!

Shame for a UK GR Yaris binned it near the end of the day and it didn't look pretty , almost at the end of the lap. Think he got caught out in the conditions which gave the impression of a drying track. Not so !

Yes, PS4's seemd to be the tyre of choice. There was a lovely, black, UK registered BMW M2, very modified, with racing spec PS4's on and it was flying.

There were a fwe Yaris GRs out there, all going really well. Amazed there were no red flags on the day, up until official end at 4pm.

I can't really explain why, but I found the whole concept of learning the wet lines, keeping it smooth and not panicking with the random bits of standing water to be absolutely incredible. Real fun.

[Kev_Mk3]

OldSchoolSmudger said:

Anyone know of any 'cheap' track days for next year?

No such thing but dates wont be out till end of november / start of december

Far Cough said:

Digga said:

Who says. Cup 2’s don’t work in the wet?

Did a full tank of fuel on Friday. Was an absolutely immersive experience, in more than one sense at times.

It was minging on Friday and the latter part of the circuit was shrouded in cloud limiting visibility to pretty much the width and nothing else.
I managed a few laps but the rear was sliding at 33mph in some early corners which was not confidence inspiring. Cup 2's were not great !!!
A couple of guys on Michelin 4s' were going well and I saw one of the Yaris GR's had full wets on.
My BTG time was an impressive 14 mins initially !!

Shame for a UK GR Yaris binned it near the end of the day and it didn't look pretty , almost at the end of the lap. Think he got caught out in the conditions which gave the impression of a drying track. Not so !

I came round after he did it wasnt fun.

I have to say that was the hardest track day I've ever been on. Morning with the rain was fine but when it started to dry It was like ice i got no grip anywhere and had a few hairy moments at very low speed.

I was shocked they sent us out tbh due to the fog being so bad.

Saturday I went and did a few TF laps. After it closed due to some bell dropping his engines contents it went lovely and dry, really quick tbf before closure.

Sunday I just watched the madness before leaving wasn't interested in lapping at all.

[Digga]

Very tricky on track. There were a few times where the showers intensified and you then had water in places it was not previously runnign or gathered. I hit runoff from the Teirgarten bridge at just over 100mph on one lap, which was hairy.

There was also some plum that dropped fuel or oil almost all the way around the wet line. I had a few odd slides under power and then, out of Bergwerk, spotted the regularly spaced oil-slick patches in the water. Fortunately, the rain washed all that away eventually.

What car were you in Kev?

[Far Cough]

Some corners were just like ice where others were ok and what you would expect in the wet. Weird , but can see how easily it catches people out. I thought about doing a few laps on Saturday but in the end we buggered off as it was still rubbish weather

[OldSchoolSmudger]

Anyone have any experience of going when Rock Am Ring is on? I hear it's a bit of a mess round the entire area but the track is a little quieter?!?

[Kev_Mk3]

Digga said:

Very tricky on track. There were a few times where the showers intensified and you then had water in places it was not previously runnign or gathered. I hit runoff from the Teirgarten bridge at just over 100mph on one lap, which was hairy.

There was also some plum that dropped fuel or oil almost all the way around the wet line. I had a few odd slides under power and then, out of Bergwerk, spotted the regularly spaced oil-slick patches in the water. Fortunately, the rain washed all that away eventually.

What car were you in Kev?

Ex R4R Swift

Edited by Kev_Mk3 on Tuesday 24th October 21:29

[Digga]

Did you have fun trying to find the Ringfreaks BMW 3 series that were running without lights on in the spray early on?

[Wh00sher]

Digga said:

Yes, PS4's seemd to be the tyre of choice.

I can't really explain why, but I found the whole concept of learning the wet lines, keeping it smooth and not panicking with the random bits of standing water to be absolutely incredible. Real fun.

I run PS4 in the wet, they seem extremely capable.

On my last ring trackday in the rain, I did 9 laps in 90 minutes. 4 laps, brimmed it and out until to the chequered flag. I think there were only half a dozen cars out.

I really enjoyed the experience and like you, the challenge is finding the wet line and grip, regardless of how slow it happens to be.

[audi321]

How often and how much are these track days? Can anyone book?

[Arklight]

OldSchoolSmudger said:

Anyone have any experience of going when Rock Am Ring is on? I hear it's a bit of a mess round the entire area but the track is a little quieter?!?

Track is ok, but getting to and from it can be +1hr at least depending on where you come from. Big events like this, unless you are actually attending it I would always suggest it as an avoid the area time.

[Digga]

Arklight said:

OldSchoolSmudger said:

Anyone have any experience of going when Rock Am Ring is on? I hear it's a bit of a mess round the entire area but the track is a little quieter?!?

Track is ok, but getting to and from it can be +1hr at least depending on where you come from. Big events like this, unless you are actually attending it I would always suggest it as an avoid the area time.

Put it another way, when I was there in May, just before Rock Am Ring, staying in the Lindner Congress, they were building a huge, temporary Aldi, just for the event. Was about 15,000 sq. ft. They are catering for numbers.

[Jamescrs]

audi321 said:

How often and how much are these track days? Can anyone book?

If you want to go to a proper track day at the ring prices vary according to the time of year and day of the week but expect to be looking at £5-600 for a track day.

[Kev_Mk3]

Apex rentals potentially stopping forever it seems from Roberts comments yesterday on FB but all will be out next month.

[braddo]

Kev_Mk3 said:

Apex rentals potentially stopping forever it seems from Roberts comments yesterday on FB but all will be out next month.

What's the story (gossip)?

[Digga]

braddo said:

Kev_Mk3 said:

Apex rentals potentially stopping forever it seems from Roberts comments yesterday on FB but all will be out next month.

What's the story (gossip)?

Yes, intrigued to know too. It did ocurr to me, not so long back, that Robert was seemingly notable in his absence from social media that I've seen. I did wonder - he has a lot of irons, in a lot of different fires - if he'd cooled to the Apex business of late.

[Kev_Mk3]

braddo said:

Kev_Mk3 said:

Apex rentals potentially stopping forever it seems from Roberts comments yesterday on FB but all will be out next month.

What's the story (gossip)?

Nope from Roberts own words.

I know that the staff have been whittled down over the last few months and the fleet has stopped from today being rentals but looks like they are not returning.