Evo's 8 minute crack at the Ring
Discussion
8.24 was timed at the sidelines by a spectator. Still not even close to 8 min. then and we'll not be hearing from it soon I guess.
Seeing as BMW M got 8.35 out of a bog standard 130i, 11 seconds quicker with 40BHP more, track suspension, decent brakes, cage etc etc. and one of the best drivers around behind the wheel is not impressive.
Seeing as BMW M got 8.35 out of a bog standard 130i, 11 seconds quicker with 40BHP more, track suspension, decent brakes, cage etc etc. and one of the best drivers around behind the wheel is not impressive.
What spec is the car? I know it has AP brakes,but not sure what else they have done.
My spec would be -
If it had Schrick cams, rorty supersprint race zorst and a mapped ECU, they should see 380 bhp out of a 3.2 EVO engine with ease. Strip the interior out and replace doors etc you should get the thing below 1200kgs. AC Schnitzer gear linkage, welded roll cage etc. KW variant 3 suspension, corner weighted and lowered 25mm, 3.5 degrees neg camber on front, 2 degrees neg rear, AP 6 pot brakes, 18" wheels, michelin cup tyres (or Pirelli corsas) with spacers and rolled arches to fit the tyre size.
That will do sub 8 minute BTG.
My spec would be -
If it had Schrick cams, rorty supersprint race zorst and a mapped ECU, they should see 380 bhp out of a 3.2 EVO engine with ease. Strip the interior out and replace doors etc you should get the thing below 1200kgs. AC Schnitzer gear linkage, welded roll cage etc. KW variant 3 suspension, corner weighted and lowered 25mm, 3.5 degrees neg camber on front, 2 degrees neg rear, AP 6 pot brakes, 18" wheels, michelin cup tyres (or Pirelli corsas) with spacers and rolled arches to fit the tyre size.
That will do sub 8 minute BTG.
phatgixer said:
What spec is the car? I know it has AP brakes,but not sure what else they have done.
My spec would be -
If it had Schrick cams, rorty supersprint race zorst and a mapped ECU, they should see 380 bhp out of a 3.2 EVO engine with ease. Strip the interior out and replace doors etc you should get the thing below 1200kgs. AC Schnitzer gear linkage, welded roll cage etc. KW variant 3 suspension, corner weighted and lowered 25mm, 3.5 degrees neg camber on front, 2 degrees neg rear, AP 6 pot brakes, 18" wheels, michelin cup tyres (or Pirelli corsas) with spacers and rolled arches to fit the tyre size.
That will do sub 8 minute BTG.
They are not using a 3.2 - they have a 286hp 3.0
Skyline that allegedly did sub 8 was definitely modified, I know from a source at Nissan Technology Centre Europe.
Perf Car tried with a totally stock R33 GTR a few years later and did circa 8:30.
I owned many Skyline GTRs, including a stock R33 GTR and there is no way that a stock R33GTR is anywhere near as quick as the 200kg lighter, 100bhp more powerful Porsche GT3, which also has better brakes and a better chassis.
Alleged times from manufacturers mean nothing unless they are closely replicated by an independent tester such as Sport Auto magazine.
Perf Car tried with a totally stock R33 GTR a few years later and did circa 8:30.
I owned many Skyline GTRs, including a stock R33 GTR and there is no way that a stock R33GTR is anywhere near as quick as the 200kg lighter, 100bhp more powerful Porsche GT3, which also has better brakes and a better chassis.
Alleged times from manufacturers mean nothing unless they are closely replicated by an independent tester such as Sport Auto magazine.
GuyR said:Even then one cannot rely on the laptime to be representative.
Alleged times from manufacturers mean nothing unless they are closely replicated by an independent tester such as Sport Auto magazine.
Sometimes von Saurma (SA editor) does the driving; other times someone else connected to the individual car or maker does. No disrespect to von Saurma, but when Chevrolet has Jan Magnusson (as in, a 32-year-old guy with two dozen Formula One starts on his CV) set a time in the new Corvette, they have a bit of an edge.
When a definitive NS time is going to be measured, it's a fair bet that the manufacturer doesn't randomly pluck any old car from the garage. Theoretically identical engines can have rather different power outputs, for example. Also, one might run brand-new road tyres that have been shaved - they're still road tyres, right?
The NS laptime game has become rather farcical. That's a shame because, if it were done more scrupulously, we would have valuable benchmarks for assessing road cars.
By the way, the transporter that carries around the "Ego" 996 racecar that set a time a few weeks ago is now emblazoned on each side with a big outline of the NS, within which is "7:15".
What SA should do is to redefine the category as "Fastest lap by a vehicle that's on tyres that are road-legal".
dtmpower said:
[They are not using a 3.2 - they have a 286hp 3.0
Its a 3.0 but is actually a GT, not a regular 3.0, hence tad more grunt (296 from memory) then again the Evo 3.2 figs are from jackanory so dunno if GTs are the same.
Tho did drive a GT yrs back & seat of pants it felt a tad more urgent that the boggo 3.0
flemke said:
The NS laptime game has become rather farcical. That's a shame because, if it were done more scrupulously, we would have valuable benchmarks for assessing road cars.
I think you're right. Nobody can verify these claims and if what GuyR claims is true, some manufacturers will resort to openly abusing the spirit of the exercise.
All I know is that any car that can lap the full NS in anything less than 8:30 is a better and faster car than I ever need it to be!
bad_roo said:At the time was the Skyline held out to be a standard car? I was under the impression that, instead, it was acknowledged to be a trick car.
The NS laptime game has become rather farcical. That's a shame because, if it were done more scrupulously, we would have valuable benchmarks for assessing road cars.
I think you're right. Nobody can verify these claims and if what GuyR claims is true, some manufacturers will resort to openly abusing the spirit of the exercise.
All I know is that any car that can lap the full NS in anything less than 8:30 is a better and faster car than I ever need it to be!
I'd be surprised if a standard one could have broken 8:20. They weigh a tonne, er, make that two tonnes!
aasc said:
Yes the Skyline was implied to be a std car, however Dirk admitted he'd spent several days with Nissan engineers at the 'ring getting that time & at that point is was no longer the car that could be bought from a main dealer...
A few years ago I thought it was acknowledged that Dirk's record run was in fact done on non-road legal tyres.
I'll ask him when I next see him.
iguana said:
[They are not using a 3.2 - they have a 286hp 3.0
Its a 3.0 but is actually a GT, not a regular 3.0, hence tad more grunt (296 from memory) then again the Evo 3.2 figs are from jackanory so dunno if GTs are the same.
Tho did drive a GT yrs back & seat of pants it felt a tad more urgent that the boggo 3.0
as i understand it the 3.0 is a better engine to tune. the 3.2 has longer throw so ultimately lower redline and i guess you junk the double vanos for fixed race cams anyway... but generally agree the're not gonna crack 8 min... and how much have they spent? talk about saw them coming...
francisb said:
dtmpower said:
[They are not using a 3.2 - they have a 286hp 3.0
Its a 3.0 but is actually a GT, not a regular 3.0, hence tad more grunt (296 from memory) then again the Evo 3.2 figs are from jackanory so dunno if GTs are the same.
Tho did drive a GT yrs back & seat of pants it felt a tad more urgent that the boggo 3.0
as i understand it the 3.0 is a better engine to tune. the 3.2 has longer throw so ultimately lower redline and i guess you junk the double vanos for fixed race cams anyway... but generally agree the're not gonna crack 8 min... and how much have they spent? talk about saw them coming...
Wish someone would show me how! I have a 3.0GT I race in the Nat Windscreen saloons at Combe (with Evo heads and pistons) and shrick cams, and it is nowhere near the power of my standard CSL (3.2 with a bit of nifty carbon round the plenum chamber)
phatgixer said:
Wish someone would show me how! I have a 3.0GT I race in the Nat Windscreen saloons at Combe (with Evo heads and pistons) and shrick cams, and it is nowhere near the power of my standard CSL (3.2 with a bit of nifty carbon round the plenum chamber)
i could be wrong but are you comparing an s50b30 with s54b32 ? in which case you're comparing a 1993 engine with a 2004...
Is 8.30 that impressive nowadays. Gavan Kershaw (Lotus driving guru and racer) did an 8.30 in an Astra VXR (on road tyres) on his 6 lap. Therefore, EVO's M3 time is rubbish really...
bad_roo said:
The NS laptime game has become rather farcical. That's a shame because, if it were done more scrupulously, we would have valuable benchmarks for assessing road cars.
I think you're right. Nobody can verify these claims and if what GuyR claims is true, some manufacturers will resort to openly abusing the spirit of the exercise.
All I know is that any car that can lap the full NS in anything less than 8:30 is a better and faster car than I ever need it to be!
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