Track Day Beginner - some tips and advice please
Discussion
If one is to go the trackway/non-road legal pad route: the Pagid RSL 29 is at the top of the tree.
Once bedded in properly they work perfectly from cold & will not wilt on track. They are also, absolutely, fine as a road pad, albeit with the occasional need for re-bedding to stop the squealing.
Kyri
Once bedded in properly they work perfectly from cold & will not wilt on track. They are also, absolutely, fine as a road pad, albeit with the occasional need for re-bedding to stop the squealing.
Kyri
saveloy said:
If one is to go the trackway/non-road legal pad route: the Pagid RSL 29 is at the top of the tree.
Once bedded in properly they work perfectly from cold & will not wilt on track. They are also, absolutely, fine as a road pad, albeit with the occasional need for re-bedding to stop the squealing.
Kyri
I'm not sure recommending non-road-legal pads is the right thing for a first trackday...Once bedded in properly they work perfectly from cold & will not wilt on track. They are also, absolutely, fine as a road pad, albeit with the occasional need for re-bedding to stop the squealing.
Kyri
C70R said:
saveloy said:
If one is to go the trackway/non-road legal pad route: the Pagid RSL 29 is at the top of the tree.
Once bedded in properly they work perfectly from cold & will not wilt on track. They are also, absolutely, fine as a road pad, albeit with the occasional need for re-bedding to stop the squealing.
Kyri
I'm not sure recommending non-road-legal pads is the right thing for a first trackday...Once bedded in properly they work perfectly from cold & will not wilt on track. They are also, absolutely, fine as a road pad, albeit with the occasional need for re-bedding to stop the squealing.
Kyri
Kyri
brillomaster said:
Go for something like ebc blues or ferodo 2500 to Start. Then, once you've burnt through them and got the bug, go for proper pagid, carbon Lorraine, performance friction or carbotech pads.
None of this is good advice for a first-timer. 
Just go out there on OEM pads with plenty of meat on them, and you'll be just fine. My first trackday was done in a 206 GTi on the cheapest pads Euros could sell me, with fresh fluid. I didn't once run out of brakes, and they only got a bit hot when we didn't leave long enough between stints (a friend and I shared the car).
You don't need "proper" pads to enjoy a trackday. Advice like this is why people get the misplaced impression that the barrier to entry/enjoyment of trackdays is so high.
saveloy said:
C70R said:
saveloy said:
If one is to go the trackway/non-road legal pad route: the Pagid RSL 29 is at the top of the tree.
Once bedded in properly they work perfectly from cold & will not wilt on track. They are also, absolutely, fine as a road pad, albeit with the occasional need for re-bedding to stop the squealing.
Kyri
I'm not sure recommending non-road-legal pads is the right thing for a first trackday...Once bedded in properly they work perfectly from cold & will not wilt on track. They are also, absolutely, fine as a road pad, albeit with the occasional need for re-bedding to stop the squealing.
Kyri
Kyri
"Spend £300 on non-road-legal pads" is bad advice.
Krikkit said:
Not often this happens, but I agree completely with C70R...
ATE Typ200 fluid (from Compbrake ideally as they're good folk), £17/litre significantly undercuts the silly expensive race fluid at double that, and very few cars will ever exceed its capability.
I'd suggest that roughly 90% of the people I've seen using or talking about exotic/expensive brake components are absolutely miles away from their capacity. ATE Typ200 fluid (from Compbrake ideally as they're good folk), £17/litre significantly undercuts the silly expensive race fluid at double that, and very few cars will ever exceed its capability.
I got sucked into that trap with my last track car, and bought Carbotechs which were intolerable on the road and impossible to fade on the track. I can't tell you how little fun the NC500 was (including the drive from London) with those on.
This time, I'm running DS2500s. Great on the road, great on the track, and in no way make me feel like I'm cosplaying a racing driver.
It's a bit like the mate of mine who plays golf. He loves telling everyone how he's bought a really expensive new club/bag/glove/shoe, while he hacks his way around in 20+.
C70R said:
Krikkit said:
Not often this happens, but I agree completely with C70R...
ATE Typ200 fluid (from Compbrake ideally as they're good folk), £17/litre significantly undercuts the silly expensive race fluid at double that, and very few cars will ever exceed its capability.
I'd suggest that roughly 90% of the people I've seen using or talking about exotic/expensive brake components are absolutely miles away from their capacity. ATE Typ200 fluid (from Compbrake ideally as they're good folk), £17/litre significantly undercuts the silly expensive race fluid at double that, and very few cars will ever exceed its capability.
I got sucked into that trap with my last track car, and bought Carbotechs which were intolerable on the road and impossible to fade on the track. I can't tell you how little fun the NC500 was (including the drive from London) with those on.
This time, I'm running DS2500s. Great on the road, great on the track, and in no way make me feel like I'm cosplaying a racing driver.
It's a bit like the mate of mine who plays golf. He loves telling everyone how he's bought a really expensive new club/bag/glove/shoe, while he hacks his way around in 20+.
C70R said:
None of this is good advice for a first-timer.
Just go out there on OEM pads with plenty of meat on them, and you'll be just fine. My first trackday was done in a 206 GTi on the cheapest pads Euros could sell me, with fresh fluid. I didn't once run out of brakes, and they only got a bit hot when we didn't leave long enough between stints (a friend and I shared the car).
You don't need "proper" pads to enjoy a trackday. Advice like this is why people get the misplaced impression that the barrier to entry/enjoyment of trackdays is so high.
I ‘think’ I understand the point you’re making and I suspect we are coming at this from the same angle but…Just go out there on OEM pads with plenty of meat on them, and you'll be just fine. My first trackday was done in a 206 GTi on the cheapest pads Euros could sell me, with fresh fluid. I didn't once run out of brakes, and they only got a bit hot when we didn't leave long enough between stints (a friend and I shared the car).
You don't need "proper" pads to enjoy a trackday. Advice like this is why people get the misplaced impression that the barrier to entry/enjoyment of trackdays is so high.
“Cheapest pads euros would sell me” is terrible advice too imho. I did this early on in my trackday career nearly 20 years ago and I nearly died. Not all cheap pads are made equally.
Need to spend thousands or even hundreds - no, agree completely.
Good fluid is an absolute must and a no brainer.
Race pads is ridiculous but upgrading to ds2500 or similar would be a great insurance policy to ensure you enjoy the day without issue. Probably get away with known brand oem pads but why risk it? Nobody knows how you drive or what the particular nuances of track/car/cooling are gonna be.
It is totally possible to destroy road pads in a morning (with no fun due to fade/drop off/lack of confidence). I am an averagely moderate driver and I got to the point where I was killing a set of blues in a day on the standard calipers.
My advice - don’t spend 6k on brembos or 8k on a supercharger but £250 on a set of ds2500s which will be great on the road plus some rbf600 will ensure you can enjoy and focus on other things at the track.
If you are doing snett put the date up and i’ll come say hi
My 2 cents etc
SAS Tom said:
I’d say the people running oem pads have never braked hard in their lives…
I managed to overheat a set of OEM brakes and the coach I’d hired for the day suggested I was spending too much time riding the brakes approaching corners. Interestingly, braking later and harder resulted in them not fading at all and we got many more laps out of them.That was a heavy, slow old diesel Mondeo though - YMMV!
Chris
I dunno, did a trackday in my boxster with standard brembo pads, thought they'd be OK for a day or two. they'd turned to dust by mid afternoon. Had to nurse the car 3hrs home with basically no front brakes.
Standard pads just aren't up to the job of track work. Even if you only put good pads on the front axle, it's very worthwhile.
By all means run cheap tyres, they'll slide around and you'll have a great day. But cheap out on brakes and at best you'll get frustrated quickly and have your day cut short, and at worst you'll suffer complete brake failure.
Standard pads just aren't up to the job of track work. Even if you only put good pads on the front axle, it's very worthwhile.
By all means run cheap tyres, they'll slide around and you'll have a great day. But cheap out on brakes and at best you'll get frustrated quickly and have your day cut short, and at worst you'll suffer complete brake failure.
brillomaster said:
Standard pads just aren't up to the job of track work. Even if you only put good pads on the front axle, it's very worthwhile.
This isn't true, at all. I've run OEM pads for "track work" (I hate that term - it sounds so Partridge/cringe) without issue, as have plenty of folks I've known and met.
I was at Snetterton last year, and amongst the racecar cosplayers were a couple sharing a nondescript Kia hatchback complete with roof bars. It was out and lapping most of the day, and they were having a wail of a time.
I caught up with them for a chat, and they said it was their daily which they'd brought because their track car wasn't working. Completely stock, nobody died, and they had a ball.
You. Do. Not. Need. Upgraded. Brakes. To. Enjoy. A. Trackday.
MrNoisy said:
I ‘think’ I understand the point you’re making and I suspect we are coming at this from the same angle but…
“Cheapest pads euros would sell me” is terrible advice too imho. I did this early on in my trackday career nearly 20 years ago and I nearly died. Not all cheap pads are made equally.
Need to spend thousands or even hundreds - no, agree completely.
Good fluid is an absolute must and a no brainer.
Race pads is ridiculous but upgrading to ds2500 or similar would be a great insurance policy to ensure you enjoy the day without issue. Probably get away with known brand oem pads but why risk it? Nobody knows how you drive or what the particular nuances of track/car/cooling are gonna be.
It is totally possible to destroy road pads in a morning (with no fun due to fade/drop off/lack of confidence). I am an averagely moderate driver and I got to the point where I was killing a set of blues in a day on the standard calipers.
My advice - don’t spend 6k on brembos or 8k on a supercharger but £250 on a set of ds2500s which will be great on the road plus some rbf600 will ensure you can enjoy and focus on other things at the track.
If you are doing snett put the date up and i’ll come say hi
My 2 cents etc
The whole "cheapest Euros pads" wasn't my advice, but it is my experience.“Cheapest pads euros would sell me” is terrible advice too imho. I did this early on in my trackday career nearly 20 years ago and I nearly died. Not all cheap pads are made equally.
Need to spend thousands or even hundreds - no, agree completely.
Good fluid is an absolute must and a no brainer.
Race pads is ridiculous but upgrading to ds2500 or similar would be a great insurance policy to ensure you enjoy the day without issue. Probably get away with known brand oem pads but why risk it? Nobody knows how you drive or what the particular nuances of track/car/cooling are gonna be.
It is totally possible to destroy road pads in a morning (with no fun due to fade/drop off/lack of confidence). I am an averagely moderate driver and I got to the point where I was killing a set of blues in a day on the standard calipers.
My advice - don’t spend 6k on brembos or 8k on a supercharger but £250 on a set of ds2500s which will be great on the road plus some rbf600 will ensure you can enjoy and focus on other things at the track.
If you are doing snett put the date up and i’ll come say hi
My 2 cents etc
That 206 GTi did several days on those pads, being used hard and shared between a friend and I, and we never once suffered scary brake fade.
It's meant to demonstrate that the standard internet advice of "if you want to go on your first trackday, you need to upgrade X, Y and Z" is often nonsense.
Like my golfing pal, trackday people often use their hobby as an excuse to upgrade their car, often when it's not needed. Some even go as far as full racecar cosplay, like my golfing pal with his Tiger Woods clubs. Nothing inherently wrong with that.
What this unfortunately leads to is the groupthink view that upgrades are essential, as a justification mechanism. And the (not so) logical progression from this is that, if you're upgrading, then only the best upgrades are worth doing. Anything remotely linked to safety then becomes an exercise in "well, if you're not upgrading that then you'll certainly die" or "why would you not go for the best X possible, for your safety?".
It's a neverending torrent of tosh from people more interested in gatekeeping a hobby (and justifying their own decisions) than giving actual advice. You have people who have built cosplay racecars as their hobby giving advice to someone who wants to go and do a few gentle laps at Brands. It's the equivalent of my golfing pal telling people which clubs they need to buy before they go and knock some balls at the range.
I've had much more serious track cars since that 206, yet it's the one I look back on most fondly because I just got in and drove the pants off it without worrying whether the internet would agree with my choice of pads.
Edited by C70R on Thursday 25th January 07:46
I don’t think there’s a requirement to spend hundreds on race pads but an upgrade would definitely help anyone on track. Something like EBC yellowstuffs would help and give you more fun on track rather than time in the pits waiting. It’s not gatekeeping the hobby and the cost compared to standard pads isn’t massive.
Road pads are not designed to do track days, it’s not an outrageous statement.
Road pads are not designed to do track days, it’s not an outrageous statement.
SAS Tom said:
I don’t think there’s a requirement to spend hundreds on race pads but an upgrade would definitely help anyone on track. Something like EBC yellowstuffs would help and give you more fun on track rather than time in the pits waiting. It’s not gatekeeping the hobby and the cost compared to standard pads isn’t massive.
Road pads are not designed to do track days, it’s not an outrageous statement.
This isn't a thread about general advice for trackdays. Road pads are not designed to do track days, it’s not an outrageous statement.
This is a thread about advice for a first trackday.
Upgraded brakes are absolutely not a requirement to do your first trackday.
Why do folks struggle to separate these things?
I have to back C70R on this. If you have a road car and you want to try it on a trackday, there is no need to upgrade it. It does need to be in good condition, but you don't need to start spending money on upgrades before you start.
Yes, once you start pushing it is easy to burn through OEM pads very quickly. If J4 plans to attack the circuit like he's on a series of qualifying laps, even EBC Yellowstuff won't last long. But I don't think that's what the he has in mind.
j4r4lly said:
I’m not looking to break any lap records, just initially have some fun and see if I enjoy it as much as I did before. From there I’d then think about some sort of coaching to get the best out of the days.
An ST170 is capable of turning up, doing a series of 15-20 min runs (as the trackday organiser will recommend), and then getting you home.Yes, once you start pushing it is easy to burn through OEM pads very quickly. If J4 plans to attack the circuit like he's on a series of qualifying laps, even EBC Yellowstuff won't last long. But I don't think that's what the he has in mind.
Ok, I see I may have stumbled into a debate that’s been raging for a while given the comments.
I’ll try one more time - I agree, you do not need to go crazy on upgrades for your car as a beginner to enjoy trackdays. I suspect that’s what you mean by racecar cosplay.
OP - some on here obviously have a bee in their bonnet. Change your fluid mate 100% and if it we’re me, some decent brand pads with plenty of meat. Then, enjoy the day and ignore the rest of the gum bumping.
I’ll try one more time - I agree, you do not need to go crazy on upgrades for your car as a beginner to enjoy trackdays. I suspect that’s what you mean by racecar cosplay.
OP - some on here obviously have a bee in their bonnet. Change your fluid mate 100% and if it we’re me, some decent brand pads with plenty of meat. Then, enjoy the day and ignore the rest of the gum bumping.
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