COMPETITION CAR USE ON A TRACK DAY?
Discussion
You can get "test days" where competition cars are allowed (often restricted to MSA license holders or club members) but most of the "track days" I've been to have been limited to road legal cars. Occasionally you see roadgoing style race cars (Tuscans, touring cars etc) but never single seaters.
That's about the size of it. I run the Ginetta on Track days and most Radical drivers have to trailer their cars to these days.
Single seaters would be dangerous on the same circuit though, so can't see them being allowed even by the most open minded organisers.
As mentioned above, test days are available, once in posession of a suitable MSA license. However, you may be surrounded by some very quick drivers in capable machines who will be at ten tenths on every lap - rather than the comparitively relaxed forum of a track day, with associated overtaking rules etc. Not for the feignt hearted!
Single seaters would be dangerous on the same circuit though, so can't see them being allowed even by the most open minded organisers.
As mentioned above, test days are available, once in posession of a suitable MSA license. However, you may be surrounded by some very quick drivers in capable machines who will be at ten tenths on every lap - rather than the comparitively relaxed forum of a track day, with associated overtaking rules etc. Not for the feignt hearted!
I think you'd have to talk to the specific track day organisers. I suspect that the answer would be 'no' in most cases. In any case it's going to be dramatically faster than your average road car so aren't you going to spend your whole time following plodders through corners?
If you're buying a car like this, find somewhere to drive it properly - bring it hillclimbing!
If you're buying a car like this, find somewhere to drive it properly - bring it hillclimbing!
Have you tried it? I can't maintain that level of concentration and exertion for longer than a minute or so, and it takes me an hour to recover! It's *very* frantic stuff if you are trying! Not trying to pretend it's anything like wheel-to-wheel racing, which is a very different kettle of fish (and budget). But sprints and hillclimbs are a very substantial step up in concentration and intensity from track days, don't let the short duration of each run put you off.
Not tried Hillclimbing before though one of my old TVR pals loves it, but i used to do a bit of Sprinting and may try my hand at that again in the future. The relaxed atmosphere of the track day appeals to me at the moment though, any form of competition wether it be Sprints, Hillclimbs etc would bring out my competitive spirit (which is strong) and i would have to devote more time than i am likely to have in the next couple of years. When i am envolved in competion on the track it basically consumes all my spare time preping, modifying etc and having just moved into a house that has a huge garden and needs major redecoration etc i just want the fun without the hours spent on prep. Second in competition is not acceptable to me.........i have to work on it to get it quicker. So i know that is not an option at the moment!
I rebuilt one some years back and fitted a lightly tuned 1500 ford engine, the car was built in about 66 i think. The car doesn`t have to have an all steel rev monster in it, it`s more about the fun and reduced amount of engine maintanance with something that is very lightly tuned. That`s the whole reason for not going sprinting/racing at this point.I know what a state of the art racing clubmans can perform like but it doesn`t have to be that extreme for just a bit of sunday fun.
RMA allow single seaters at Bedford and at Spa (though not at LeMans) I think it comes down to the track rather than the organiser. We have also run (in a FF2000) at Goodwood on a charity track day. The problem isn't generally the number of seats so much as the open wheel situation.
As others have commented the speed differential can be enormous but a Radical is (potentialy) a road car as is a JP1 and they aren't exactly slow. It all comes down to common sense and playing by the rules at the end of the day. I have been on track at Spa in a FF2000 with Porsche 962's, a 1934 Alfa GP car, an Enzo, an ex-Schumacher Benetton and the Lamborghini GT test team as well as Elises, 911's, Escorts and a Morgan. Contrary to the expectations of the ATDO and MSA, none of us died. Sometimes when people know there is some serious kit out there they behave better than when they assume they have the best car and couldn't possibly have been caught by anything.
>> Edited by rustybin on Thursday 8th September 16:36
As others have commented the speed differential can be enormous but a Radical is (potentialy) a road car as is a JP1 and they aren't exactly slow. It all comes down to common sense and playing by the rules at the end of the day. I have been on track at Spa in a FF2000 with Porsche 962's, a 1934 Alfa GP car, an Enzo, an ex-Schumacher Benetton and the Lamborghini GT test team as well as Elises, 911's, Escorts and a Morgan. Contrary to the expectations of the ATDO and MSA, none of us died. Sometimes when people know there is some serious kit out there they behave better than when they assume they have the best car and couldn't possibly have been caught by anything.
>> Edited by rustybin on Thursday 8th September 16:36
rustybin said:
Contrary to the expectations of the ATDO and MSA, none of us died. Sometimes when people know there is some serious kit out there they behave better than when they assume they have the best car and couldn't possibly have been caught by anything.
Good points, well made sir!!!I have seen lots of Mallocks at track days over the years - I dont think you should have problems at all. Nearly all track days I have ever been to allow anything (that passes the dreaded noise test) that is not a single seater - I have seen Ultimas, radicals, sports 2000's, old touring cars even a can am car once.
I think it was the open-wheel bit that causes the problems, rather than being single seater.
Not it should happen, but the thought of a 400kg race car bumping into a 1800kg barge is not nice.
As long as the sessions are well-matched then there shouldn't be a problem - the best bet would be to check with the TDO's themselves as they may/may not all run the same rules.
Not it should happen, but the thought of a 400kg race car bumping into a 1800kg barge is not nice.
As long as the sessions are well-matched then there shouldn't be a problem - the best bet would be to check with the TDO's themselves as they may/may not all run the same rules.
mmm-five said:
Not it should happen, but the thought of a 400kg race car bumping into a 1800kg barge is not nice.
I have never quite understood this concern. Most car to car contact is between cars travelling in roughly the same direction so the comparative weight is not much of an issue. The light thing tends to bounce of the heavy thing. The nastiest accident one is likely to have on a track is by hitting something solid and travelling at a very different speed to you e.g. earth bank, barrier etc. A Smart car is allowed to use the same road as an Artic and head toward each other with nothing but 'driver skill' keeping them apart.
The other arguments rolled out about single seaters / open wheelers are:
'Open wheel cars will flip when wheels come in to contact' which is true but more so when they do it with each other than when grinding against a bit of bumper on a road car.
'Race car crash protection is not as good' I would rather have the side on crash protection of a Formula Ford than a Caterham any day.
'The track worthiness of a race car is hard to check' How often do road cars get checked for safety at a track day or even have to show an MOT?
The only incompatibility argument that I think holds any water is that single seaters tend to come apart in an accident and shed wheels and suspension components in a fairly violent way and have sharp pointy bits that can wedge under road cars but I remain unconvinced that this is so different from the risk of an Elise v Range Rover (not a common track day car I grant you) type collision which is considered acceptable on public roads.
I suspect that the real reason for the dislike is that track day organisers are concerned that their clientele are pretty affluent people who have spent a lot of money on their cars and do not like being frequently passed by people in cars worth less than a tenth of theirs. Or am I being a tad cynical?
rustybin said:
I suspect that the real reason for the dislike is that track day organisers are concerned that their clientele are pretty affluent people who have spent a lot of money on their cars and do not like being frequently passed by people in cars worth less than a tenth of theirs. Or am I being a tad cynical?
More than a tad I would say - as most trackdays I've been on, it's the Cateradifields that cost more than the saloons/coupes.
My M5 is worth £6-8k, and you don't see many F360, F430, GT2, etc.
I concede that that trackdays I attend are not run by the '£1000-a-day'companies, but if they've got enough money to spend on a £100k car then another £1k isn't going to matter much.
Personally, I don't have a problem with anything on track, be it Porches, Furrarris, Cateradinails, other BMWs,etc - it all depends on the driver and their attitude - although if you're up my chuff in a Cateradinail then please remember that the corner you can do at 90mph, I will need to brake down to 70-80mph, and my brakes are VERY good!
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