RE: Warranty Troubles
Discussion
well i've heard some total rubbish but this is unreal.So much for the bmw marketing.I see no way out for them but to change their stance as this will open a huge can of worms wriggling in bad publicity.How do they decide what is bad for a car.I'm sure thrashing it from flat cold every morning will do more harm than a morning on a track doing non competative motoring.Does this mean i can't sit on the autobahn doing 155 everyday?
Could you imagine Toyota saying your 4x4 warrenty is invalid if you drive across the desert or outback of Aus?/Africa/South America, because its a harsh enviroment.
Could you imagine Toyota saying your 4x4 warrenty is invalid if you drive across the desert or outback of Aus?/Africa/South America, because its a harsh enviroment.
RWDlover said: Get real everyone.This incident could actually be the owners fault and not the cars.
You mean that by using the car to it's ability the driver must be at fault? Get real! It's a fast car that is designed to be driven fast on the road and the track. How can the owner be accused of doing anything wrong if he is driving the vehicle as intended?
If there were any real issues BMW would recall every E46 M3 ever made and rectify the fault.
It's a known fault on the car, not a common one but one that happens on hard driven road cars as well. The fact is as long as it is cheaper for BMW to ignore a few problems then they will not do a recall, but using this trackday warranty excuse is pitiful in my view.
If BMW intended for the car to be raced then it would come with a roll cage and slicks.
That's utter
!! The car in question wasn't being raced, it wasn't even being driven competitively it was simply driven in the manner that it was intended - fast! The fact is if BMW does not intend it's cars to be driven like this they should make it clear as soon as the purchase is made - not hide it in the small print. It's a road going version of a race car so should be able to withstand half a day of vigorous driving without going bang don't you think? As such BMWs and the M range of cars now have their reputation on the line.
RWDlover said: Get real everyone.This incident could actually be the owners fault and not the cars.If there were any real issues BMW would recall every E46 M3 ever made and rectify the fault.If you want serious problems look at Audi,the RS4 that bends wheels and what about the tt that takes off.These are big issues that occured with normal driving not track driving.If BMW intended for the car to be raced then it would come with a roll cage and slicks.
bollocks mate,err a Mac F1 does'nt come with slicks or a roll cage.The raced ones had roll cages fitted by the people who owned them.I wonder if McLaren thought track use was unsuitable for it.
You are clearly mistaking competative motor sport as being what you do at a track day.
I would also consider it an advantage that these problems are highlighted for BMW as its better for failures to occur in a controlled enviroment than in the Dartford Tunnel on the M25 in rush hour.
I think whats more important is people getting together,raising these issues with the manufactures so they can not just walk all over us minions when ever they see fit,or change the rules when it suits them.Consumer power.
RWDlover said: One question.Is it happening to all E46 M3s.There will be over 15000 m3's built,1 or 2 problems out of 15000=no problems.End of case
You are obviously trolling and talking utter
at the same time. Your opinion is not a valid point on the subject of this thread and as such your comments are best ignored.I know that I responded to you in another thread, but over 70 cases for members of the BMW Car Club of America is not 1 or 2 problems. These are all low mileage cars.... See here
RWDlover said: One question.Is it happening to all E46 M3s.There will be over 15000 m3's built,1 or 2 problems out of 15000=no problems.End of case
Edited to say, I don't think he is trolling, and I think he genuinely loves BMWs, but I think it worth showing the other side of the story (as other folk tend to do with us TVR drivers
) >> Edited by craigalsop on Wednesday 13th November 22:46
BMW will not cover this issue because they cannot gauge how the car was driven in this event or any other event before it.However as the box did not fail,it made noises remember,they cannot validate this as a warranty issue.If BMW were getting hundreds of M3S rolling up at the dealers with failed boxes then that would be an issue.To sum this nonsense up here is a thought.If I were to take my M3 to a track day and hammer the brakes to the point of failure would that be under warranty,I dont think so!
>> Edited by RWDlover on Wednesday 13th November 23:51
>> Edited by RWDlover on Wednesday 13th November 23:52
>> Edited by RWDlover on Wednesday 13th November 23:53
>> Edited by RWDlover on Wednesday 13th November 23:51
>> Edited by RWDlover on Wednesday 13th November 23:52
>> Edited by RWDlover on Wednesday 13th November 23:53
your missing the point.You wern't the dealer in question were you ?cos you sure sound like him.
Its this whole stigma with track days.I could thrash a car as hard on a country road as i could on a track,if you want to take it to the extreme how would one stand on Spa as some of it's a public road?Lets face it,BMW are just trying to worm their way out of this and i don't think many of their customers will tolerate this.We will see
Its this whole stigma with track days.I could thrash a car as hard on a country road as i could on a track,if you want to take it to the extreme how would one stand on Spa as some of it's a public road?Lets face it,BMW are just trying to worm their way out of this and i don't think many of their customers will tolerate this.We will see
> Look out of the office window at 5pm and you'll see hundreds of people jump in cold cars and rev the nuts off them from cold. Are they invalidating their warranties?
Umm... These days: yes!
Since 2001 do all type-approved cars log quite a bit of data inside their engine management computers. One of the things they log is the max. rpm used at certain coolant temperatures.
Rev the nuts of a post-2001 car when it's cold and you can bet on it that a warranty claim will be denied if the engine fails prematurely under the 'abuse of the vehicle' clause int he warranty document.
Bye, Arno.
Umm... These days: yes!
Since 2001 do all type-approved cars log quite a bit of data inside their engine management computers. One of the things they log is the max. rpm used at certain coolant temperatures.
Rev the nuts of a post-2001 car when it's cold and you can bet on it that a warranty claim will be denied if the engine fails prematurely under the 'abuse of the vehicle' clause int he warranty document.
Bye, Arno.
Interesting stuff.
RWDolver... I can understand what you are saying. I can also understand that BMW don't want to cover their cars on track days (although I think it'll do them more harm than good). The point I think you might be missing is that in the BMW warranty - it does not state that track days / driver improvement days / skidpans etc will exclude you from cover. BMW are therefore clearly in breach of contract.
My lawyer wrote to them 5 times asking for clarification as to why the warranty was not being honoured. Their answer was always the same 'racing, rallying and cometitive sports are not covered by the warranty ploicy"
I wasn't doing any of those.
Steve
>> Edited by getcarter on Thursday 14th November 08:38
RWDolver... I can understand what you are saying. I can also understand that BMW don't want to cover their cars on track days (although I think it'll do them more harm than good). The point I think you might be missing is that in the BMW warranty - it does not state that track days / driver improvement days / skidpans etc will exclude you from cover. BMW are therefore clearly in breach of contract.
My lawyer wrote to them 5 times asking for clarification as to why the warranty was not being honoured. Their answer was always the same 'racing, rallying and cometitive sports are not covered by the warranty ploicy"
I wasn't doing any of those.
Steve
>> Edited by getcarter on Thursday 14th November 08:38
Simon,
Sorry to hear about your troubles. One quick point though (I have not read the whole thread so forgive me if this has been covered):
Do BMW dealers organise track days? (I am pretty sure they do)
If so do these invalidate the warranty? And do they tell you it invalidates the warranty before you take part?
If the answer to the last bit is no then I don't see how they have aleg to stand on.
Just a thought.
Sorry to hear about your troubles. One quick point though (I have not read the whole thread so forgive me if this has been covered):
Do BMW dealers organise track days? (I am pretty sure they do)
If so do these invalidate the warranty? And do they tell you it invalidates the warranty before you take part?
If the answer to the last bit is no then I don't see how they have aleg to stand on.
Just a thought.
Just taken a look at the discussions here and as far as I can see there are two points that need clarification:
1) Do dealers organise track days, performance driving days, or anything else that can be construde the same?
2) If you were to buy a car from BMW (or a dealer) that has been on a track day, tested by a magazine etc?
If so then you are instantly out of your waranty. So there are dealers and BMW themselves that are invalidating their own waranties - so I can see only two choices here, either BMW sort it out and pay this man for his troubles, or they invalidate all of the waranties for the cars they have sold (direct or via dealers) that meet the two criteria above.....
Either way it is incredibly bad PR for them at a time when they are winning NO friends. They need to sort it out and pretty damn quick - otherwise they will loose business for the sake of a small fcuk up...
Doesnt matter if the cars are designed for it, build for it or cook their brakes - the cars are promoted this way and therefore they need to clarify the situation..... end of story.
Cheers,
Paul
1) Do dealers organise track days, performance driving days, or anything else that can be construde the same?
2) If you were to buy a car from BMW (or a dealer) that has been on a track day, tested by a magazine etc?
If so then you are instantly out of your waranty. So there are dealers and BMW themselves that are invalidating their own waranties - so I can see only two choices here, either BMW sort it out and pay this man for his troubles, or they invalidate all of the waranties for the cars they have sold (direct or via dealers) that meet the two criteria above.....
Either way it is incredibly bad PR for them at a time when they are winning NO friends. They need to sort it out and pretty damn quick - otherwise they will loose business for the sake of a small fcuk up...
Doesnt matter if the cars are designed for it, build for it or cook their brakes - the cars are promoted this way and therefore they need to clarify the situation..... end of story.
Cheers,
Paul
How long before driving the car above the speed limit invalidates the insurance and warranty.
First the insurance companies turn their backs on us, then the car manufacturers stick their fingers up.
(by 'Us' I mean people who wish to use their cars on a track day)
I'm sure somewhere along the line they have forgotten that we are the customers!
There are always alternatives, like extended warranties to include track days. Why can't they stay customer focused and think laterally?
First the insurance companies turn their backs on us, then the car manufacturers stick their fingers up.
(by 'Us' I mean people who wish to use their cars on a track day)
I'm sure somewhere along the line they have forgotten that we are the customers!
There are always alternatives, like extended warranties to include track days. Why can't they stay customer focused and think laterally?
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