Passenger death/injury on a trackday
Discussion
Saw this on Evo and think it deserves a mention - potentially very worrying.
On a track day, both drivers and passengers sign a disclaimer excluding any liability for death or injury. Sounds alright. However, the law says you can't exclude liability for death or injury by a disclaimer. Ah. So are you insured on track? Well, probably not in most cases because insurers generally have been excluding track days from their cover in the last 18 months or so. I don't believe specific track day insurance covers third parties either - hitting another car doesn't need to be insured because of the drivers' disclaimer, and you are allowed to exclude loss or damage caused by negligence.
So what if you were to roll the car as a result of your hard driving and as a result break your passenger's neck. No insurance, disclaimer doesn't apply => you're going to be bankrupted by the potential damages claim. Ouch.
Note that there is a principle where, if someone voluntarily assumes a risk (e.g. getting into a racing car, maybe?) then they are taken to have consented to it, but this probably doesn't apply, or if it does, will not completely absolve the driver from liability (50% of the damages claim for a broken neck is still a lot).
On a track day, both drivers and passengers sign a disclaimer excluding any liability for death or injury. Sounds alright. However, the law says you can't exclude liability for death or injury by a disclaimer. Ah. So are you insured on track? Well, probably not in most cases because insurers generally have been excluding track days from their cover in the last 18 months or so. I don't believe specific track day insurance covers third parties either - hitting another car doesn't need to be insured because of the drivers' disclaimer, and you are allowed to exclude loss or damage caused by negligence.
So what if you were to roll the car as a result of your hard driving and as a result break your passenger's neck. No insurance, disclaimer doesn't apply => you're going to be bankrupted by the potential damages claim. Ouch.
Note that there is a principle where, if someone voluntarily assumes a risk (e.g. getting into a racing car, maybe?) then they are taken to have consented to it, but this probably doesn't apply, or if it does, will not completely absolve the driver from liability (50% of the damages claim for a broken neck is still a lot).
Interesting point. I despair at the litigeous (sp?) nature of our society now though. If someone gets into a car with me when I go hooning around a track surely they are consenting to the risk we're both about to undertake. If not the world's gone a little too mad for me and I want to get off.
robp said:
Well, dont passengers also have to sign on at trackdays? Know what you mean though Ted, and it probably wont be long before it happens
The point is that NO disclaimer removes liability for death or serious injury, and as most track day cars are NOT insured, and the trackday itself is only insured againts anything that is THEIR fault, you could, theoreticaly at least, get sued for millions by a passnger who you injure.
I guess the only failsafe solution is to not take passngers at all, unless you are very very rich!
I do think people should be aware of this though as I took passngers out on my last track day and didn't give this issue a seconds thought.
Some good points raised in the Evo thread by a lawyer friend of mine.
www.autoexpress.co.uk/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=evogen&Number=499076&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=1&part=all
www.autoexpress.co.uk/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=evogen&Number=499076&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=1&part=all
hughjayteens said:
Well, dont passengers also have to sign on at trackdays? Know what you mean though Ted, and it probably wont be long before it happens
The point is that NO disclaimer removes liability for death or serious injury, and as most track day cars are NOT insured, and the trackday itself is only insured againts anything that is THEIR fault, you could, theoreticaly at least, get sued for millions by a passnger who you injure.
I guess the only failsafe solution is to not take passngers at all, unless you are very very rich!
I do think people should be aware of this though as I took passngers out on my last track day and didn't give this issue a seconds thought.
I skipped over the subject on my trackday. I thought the liability insurance provided covered you full stop, not just if the accident was their fault.
Anyone on here have specific trackday insurance who can put us straight?!
I have been to a number of charity trackdays where you can pay for rides. I didn't see any disclaimer being signed. Perhaps there is an organiser of this type of trackday on this forum who can comment.
What was signed at the Donnington Trackday at the Kitcar Show last month. Did anyone here signing up read the small print or take a copy?
This topic has concerned me for a while now. Recent fatal accidents at the 'ring - I wonder whether these have given rise to legal action?
What was signed at the Donnington Trackday at the Kitcar Show last month. Did anyone here signing up read the small print or take a copy?
This topic has concerned me for a while now. Recent fatal accidents at the 'ring - I wonder whether these have given rise to legal action?
pashby said:
I have been to a number of charity trackdays where you can pay for rides. I didn't see any disclaimer being signed. Perhaps there is an organiser of this type of trackday on this forum who can comment.
What was signed at the Donnington Trackday at the Kitcar Show last month. Did anyone here signing up read the small print or take a copy?
This topic has concerned me for a while now. Recent fatal accidents at the 'ring - I wonder whether these have given rise to legal action?
I always thought the ring counts a as public "toll road" i.e you drive at your own risk.
If you look on a map of Europe you can actually see the long track marked as a road.
This could have changed though!
Death on a trackday has not yet neen tested in the UK.
It came very close last year with a fellow Instructor Steve Holland at Snet. He was banged up pretty badly, off for months and only received PENNIES!. He was working too!
All track day companies now have to own public liability up to £5m as a matter of course. However as PT says in the litigious world it would be the death (pardon the pun) of track days if this goes much further.
Track days are for having fun.
Driving home in the car (assuming you drove there in the first place!)
10/10nths driving would be frowned on at any track event I know of. SO on that basis, although serious accidents by their nature will happen, they should be few and far between.
Enjoy the days and come back in one piece..
PS Spare a thought for the poor Instructor in the passenger seat! :-)
Best regs
Steve L
It came very close last year with a fellow Instructor Steve Holland at Snet. He was banged up pretty badly, off for months and only received PENNIES!. He was working too!
All track day companies now have to own public liability up to £5m as a matter of course. However as PT says in the litigious world it would be the death (pardon the pun) of track days if this goes much further.
Track days are for having fun.
Driving home in the car (assuming you drove there in the first place!)
10/10nths driving would be frowned on at any track event I know of. SO on that basis, although serious accidents by their nature will happen, they should be few and far between.
Enjoy the days and come back in one piece..
PS Spare a thought for the poor Instructor in the passenger seat! :-)
Best regs
Steve L
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