Opinions on renting out cars for track days.
Discussion
Would really like to do a trackday but too concerned about pranging my car, as would probably have to sell it due to it being right at the top of my budget so if combined with increased insurance costs would probably have to sell.
so i have been looking into renting a car to do a trackday in, but they all appear to be elises,caterhams or race tuned hatches all around the £500-600 price mark.
Am therefore wondering about buying something along the lines of a tatty standard 106 gti for around £1000 and when not using it renting it outfor around £150-200 with a £2000 excess.
any thoughts as to whether you would consider such a car for the price would be welcomed.
thanks for reading have a good day.
so i have been looking into renting a car to do a trackday in, but they all appear to be elises,caterhams or race tuned hatches all around the £500-600 price mark.
Am therefore wondering about buying something along the lines of a tatty standard 106 gti for around £1000 and when not using it renting it outfor around £150-200 with a £2000 excess.
any thoughts as to whether you would consider such a car for the price would be welcomed.
thanks for reading have a good day.
I think you could be opening yourself up to a whole world of pain on the liability front if you try renting it out.
If someone has a prang due to mechanical failure, they'll come looking for compensation - which means you'll need to have some kind of hugely expensive insurance on it. Which may explain why track car hire is quite expensive.
Just buy something as a track toy, but also use it for Sunday morning blatting. That's what works for me, anyway.
ETA: At £200 / day, you'll barely cover your costs - it's easy to trash 2 tyres, or more, on a single day if you're a bit ham fisted with the throttle. Then you have brakes and servicing to take into account, plus fixing anything that breaks. Also consider what you'd do if it broke down in the first session - you'd have to refund, at a minimum, the cost of the hire *plus* the cost of the track for the day - and I think most would also expect a refund of expenses, too.
If someone has a prang due to mechanical failure, they'll come looking for compensation - which means you'll need to have some kind of hugely expensive insurance on it. Which may explain why track car hire is quite expensive.
Just buy something as a track toy, but also use it for Sunday morning blatting. That's what works for me, anyway.
ETA: At £200 / day, you'll barely cover your costs - it's easy to trash 2 tyres, or more, on a single day if you're a bit ham fisted with the throttle. Then you have brakes and servicing to take into account, plus fixing anything that breaks. Also consider what you'd do if it broke down in the first session - you'd have to refund, at a minimum, the cost of the hire *plus* the cost of the track for the day - and I think most would also expect a refund of expenses, too.
Edited by CinqAbarth on Saturday 21st August 21:23
all good points that i hadnt thought about, was thinking there must be a reason why its all so expensive. did assume that as long as the car had an MOT i would be covered for faults causing accidents alongside a friends public liability insurance (for DJ work).
guess it's a non starter really must grow some balls and take the elise out on track, just not sure i'd enjoy it.
guess it's a non starter really must grow some balls and take the elise out on track, just not sure i'd enjoy it.
Well, I'd say track days are actually safer than driving on the roads - fewer f
kwits, generally a higher level of skill, and strict and rapid action taken against people misbehaving.
However..... I have an old Alfa 75 which has been expensively restored which I used to use on track, but I started getting nervous and bought my Cinq. Sporting for track use instead.
kwits, generally a higher level of skill, and strict and rapid action taken against people misbehaving.However..... I have an old Alfa 75 which has been expensively restored which I used to use on track, but I started getting nervous and bought my Cinq. Sporting for track use instead.
Stephanie Plum said:
Unsure as to why you wouldn't think you'd enjoy a Lotus on track?
my reason is that it is my dream car that i have saved up in order to own and is right at the top of what i can afford comfortably, therefore i couldnt afford to crash it as it would mean i'd need to sell it which makes me think i'd be going too slow and having to move over all the time making it unenjoyable for both me and other track users.really would like to get some driver training in the car and keep looking at the walshy days but just a bit too far away, and do plan on doing the lotus academy days so i can use their cars.
i would just hate to prang the car and have to sell it due to costs increasing beyond a comfortable level. to make it even worse i have free track day cover through my insurance!
kazste said:
Stephanie Plum said:
Unsure as to why you wouldn't think you'd enjoy a Lotus on track?
my reason is that it is my dream car that i have saved up in order to own and is right at the top of what i can afford comfortably, therefore i couldnt afford to crash it as it would mean i'd need to sell it which makes me think i'd be going too slow and having to move over all the time making it unenjoyable for both me and other track users.really would like to get some driver training in the car and keep looking at the walshy days but just a bit too far away, and do plan on doing the lotus academy days so i can use their cars.
i would just hate to prang the car and have to sell it due to costs increasing beyond a comfortable level. to make it even worse i have free track day cover through my insurance!
First off you should join Lotus on Track and get yourself on some of their novice track days. They are the safest, best run days you can do with your own car imo - made more enjoyable by the knowledge that everyone around you is also in their P&J and won't be wanting to damage it either! You can enjoy training from instructors who know the marque and won't be pushing you outside your comfort zone, plus obligatory sighting laps so you know your way round before you get started. Drive on track with other people like yourself in similar cars - much safer than a day where everyone is in a cheap track day car and doesn't give a toss about who else is around them.
If you can, stay overnight and get yourself on a Walshy day - great fun and you'll come away with more confidence in yourself - for both road and track. I did two when I first bought my Elise - with about 8 weeks in between so I had chance to get to grips with what I'd been taught. I now do a fair bit of training with CAT at Millbrook - again all the time I am trying to build on my skill levels and get both quicker and safer all the time. Mind I still go back to Walshy from time to time to brush up
thanks for that, i do need to go over and do a day with walshy.
bought the car new last year and starting to get used to what its telling me, the plan is to have it as a keeper and when its four years old having saved up some more buy a 2nd car to use daily and then with the lower value of the car will probably look at taking it out.
other benefit of course of a 2nd car include not having to put 3 bags full of books in the boot when it snows, weighed them to check under the 50kg limit and they came in at 46kg last winter!!!
bought the car new last year and starting to get used to what its telling me, the plan is to have it as a keeper and when its four years old having saved up some more buy a 2nd car to use daily and then with the lower value of the car will probably look at taking it out.
other benefit of course of a 2nd car include not having to put 3 bags full of books in the boot when it snows, weighed them to check under the 50kg limit and they came in at 46kg last winter!!!
I've hired out various cars to customers for track days, with instruction over a few years now, ranging from a BMW (e36) 320i to a Radical SR3. As has already been said, you won't cover your costs at £150 - £200. I know a guy who was hiring out several sports hatches - a Peugeot 205GTi, a Saxo and a few others, for around £300 a day. He found that was barely enough, but jacked it in because he wasn't getting sufficient take up to make the storing and maintaining of the cars viable.
No one is going to find a £2,000 excess on an old hatchback very attractive! The excess on the Radical I can hire out, insured for £30,000 is only £1,500! I have an Elise available for hire (it belongs to a friend of mine) - if the optional insurance is taken out, the excess on that is £1,000. We hire that car out from £450 per day.
If you wanted to hire the Elise for a full day at (say) Oulton Park, with a full day's instruction before taking your own on a track, you're looking at circa £800 - £900 all in (not including insurance), the only variable being the track day fee. www.elisexperience.com (new website, not yet complete!)
No one is going to find a £2,000 excess on an old hatchback very attractive! The excess on the Radical I can hire out, insured for £30,000 is only £1,500! I have an Elise available for hire (it belongs to a friend of mine) - if the optional insurance is taken out, the excess on that is £1,000. We hire that car out from £450 per day.
If you wanted to hire the Elise for a full day at (say) Oulton Park, with a full day's instruction before taking your own on a track, you're looking at circa £800 - £900 all in (not including insurance), the only variable being the track day fee. www.elisexperience.com (new website, not yet complete!)
You own an Elise. You just can't buy somthing worse to track without at least trying it.
You already own one of the cheapest to run track/road cars ever.
You've already go insurance if the worst happens but honestly, you decide how much risk to take on a trackday.
Do it. You'll love it.
You already own one of the cheapest to run track/road cars ever.
You've already go insurance if the worst happens but honestly, you decide how much risk to take on a trackday.
Do it. You'll love it.
i agree with the sentiment that i should just man up and take the elise on track, but my theory is this.
if i crash it i have a £2000 excess on the car, thats half of my allocated running costs. my insurance will go up considerably eating further into my running costs. more things are likely to need replacing earlier again increasing my running costs.
whilst unlikely that all of this would happen i have to protect myself as if it did i really would be into the realm of having to sell it.
if i crash it i have a £2000 excess on the car, thats half of my allocated running costs. my insurance will go up considerably eating further into my running costs. more things are likely to need replacing earlier again increasing my running costs.
whilst unlikely that all of this would happen i have to protect myself as if it did i really would be into the realm of having to sell it.
kazste said:
i agree with the sentiment that i should just man up and take the elise on track, but my theory is this.
if i crash it i have a £2000 excess on the car, thats half of my allocated running costs. my insurance will go up considerably eating further into my running costs. more things are likely to need replacing earlier again increasing my running costs.
whilst unlikely that all of this would happen i have to protect myself as if it did i really would be into the realm of having to sell it.
You're talking about crashing as if it's likely! You don't need to be on the ragged edge to enjoy a track day and for the first few you definitely shouldn't be anyway - you just need to build confidence in your ability and learn some of the car's behaviour. If you drive smoothly you'll find an Elise's communication very helpful in keeping out of trouble and enjoying yourself.if i crash it i have a £2000 excess on the car, thats half of my allocated running costs. my insurance will go up considerably eating further into my running costs. more things are likely to need replacing earlier again increasing my running costs.
whilst unlikely that all of this would happen i have to protect myself as if it did i really would be into the realm of having to sell it.
Maybe start with open tracks with decent run-off like Bedford and Snetterton, or Abbeville with Lotus-on-Track.
If you really don't want to start with your car, see Javelin track days - they hire out MX5s and E30 BMWs.
kazste said:
Stephanie Plum said:
Unsure as to why you wouldn't think you'd enjoy a Lotus on track?
my reason is that it is my dream car that i have saved up in order to own and is right at the top of what i can afford comfortably, therefore i couldnt afford to crash it as it would mean i'd need to sell it which makes me think i'd be going too slow and having to move over all the time making it unenjoyable for both me and other track users.really would like to get some driver training in the car and keep looking at the walshy days but just a bit too far away, and do plan on doing the lotus academy days so i can use their cars.
i would just hate to prang the car and have to sell it due to costs increasing beyond a comfortable level. to make it even worse i have free track day cover through my insurance!
kazste said:
i agree with the sentiment that i should just man up and take the elise on track, but my theory is this.
if i crash it i have a £2000 excess on the car, thats half of my allocated running costs. my insurance will go up considerably eating further into my running costs. more things are likely to need replacing earlier again increasing my running costs.
whilst unlikely that all of this would happen i have to protect myself as if it did i really would be into the realm of having to sell it.
Yep, if the worst happens you may have to sell.if i crash it i have a £2000 excess on the car, thats half of my allocated running costs. my insurance will go up considerably eating further into my running costs. more things are likely to need replacing earlier again increasing my running costs.
whilst unlikely that all of this would happen i have to protect myself as if it did i really would be into the realm of having to sell it.
I'm in that position myself.
I'd rather have owned an Elise and used it properly for a while than just as a road car forever. I also don't intend on crashing it!
To be honest I really have made my mind up, its not going near a track yet. As stated I plan on keeping it for a very long time and will start to take it on track when it is older (5 ish years), I will take it on driver training days, and I will try to buy something cheap to take on trackdays such as a saxo or quite interested in one of the talons 100r's.
I do understand why people are telling me to take it on track but its an easy thing to say when it is hypothetical.
I do understand why people are telling me to take it on track but its an easy thing to say when it is hypothetical.
kazste said:
To be honest I really have made my mind up, its not going near a track yet. As stated I plan on keeping it for a very long time and will start to take it on track when it is older (5 ish years), I will take it on driver training days, and I will try to buy something cheap to take on trackdays such as a saxo or quite interested in one of the talons 100r's.
I do understand why people are telling me to take it on track but its an easy thing to say when it is hypothetical.
But you have insurance. What's the Saxo going to cost? £1K+ easily if you want it to hold together on track.I do understand why people are telling me to take it on track but its an easy thing to say when it is hypothetical.
That's already half the excess that would apparently force you to sell.
Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong then but this is my possibly flawed logic.
Saxo £1000 already have a tow vehicle and place to store it. If it gets written off I lose £1000
Year old elise s guessing around £23k. If I crash it £2k on insurance and car worth about £2k less so would be difference of £3k.
Maybe I'm wrong just my thinking.
Saxo £1000 already have a tow vehicle and place to store it. If it gets written off I lose £1000
Year old elise s guessing around £23k. If I crash it £2k on insurance and car worth about £2k less so would be difference of £3k.
Maybe I'm wrong just my thinking.
That sounds like a plan.
I would never take my Porsche on track. It's too heavy with it's leather seats, air-con etc. But more importantly than that, I love it to bits and wouldn't put it through it! That's why I've got a track only car.
Keep your road car nice and get a cheap track car. My first track car was a 306GTi6, stripped out, buckets, upgraded brakes and suspension. Bought it for £1500 already done (to a high standard aswell, I might add). I done a couple of days and absolutely loved it, so sold the 306 for £1600 and bought my ex-race car.
All you want to be concentrating on when on track, is the track! If your constantly worrying about coming off you won't enjoy it. No doubt there'll be people who disagree, and yes Loti are great track weapons, but everyones different and it sounds like you know what you'd be happier doing.
Crashes are rare though, but do unfortunately sometimes happen. Nearly everyone with a track car though has invested lots of money, sweat and/or tears in it, so no-one goes out with the intention of taking it home in a wheelie-bin. You need to be aware that you may do exactly that though.
Buy a cheap but nicely prepped car and get yourself down to a novice day, you won't look back. Watch out though, It's addictive!!
I would never take my Porsche on track. It's too heavy with it's leather seats, air-con etc. But more importantly than that, I love it to bits and wouldn't put it through it! That's why I've got a track only car.
Keep your road car nice and get a cheap track car. My first track car was a 306GTi6, stripped out, buckets, upgraded brakes and suspension. Bought it for £1500 already done (to a high standard aswell, I might add). I done a couple of days and absolutely loved it, so sold the 306 for £1600 and bought my ex-race car.
All you want to be concentrating on when on track, is the track! If your constantly worrying about coming off you won't enjoy it. No doubt there'll be people who disagree, and yes Loti are great track weapons, but everyones different and it sounds like you know what you'd be happier doing.
Crashes are rare though, but do unfortunately sometimes happen. Nearly everyone with a track car though has invested lots of money, sweat and/or tears in it, so no-one goes out with the intention of taking it home in a wheelie-bin. You need to be aware that you may do exactly that though.
Buy a cheap but nicely prepped car and get yourself down to a novice day, you won't look back. Watch out though, It's addictive!!
kazste said:
Am therefore wondering about buying something along the lines of a tatty standard 106 gti for around £1000 and when not using it renting it outfor around £150-200 with a £2000 excess.
There are so many reasons why this won't work I couldn't possibly hope to list them all here, but here's a few fairly basic reasons:-1) There is *no* market for this service. I assume for the £150 you are not going to be delivering the car to the circuit which means you're market is someone who is not only local to you, but that has a trailer (or a motor traders insurance policy). Why would someone have a trailer but not a track car? Or why would they go to the bother of renting a trailer (and tow car?) to pick up a £1000 hatchback? And why would anyone who's doing track days not just buy the £1000 car themselves? The capital outlay of the £1000 is not a big factor in the grand scheme of track days. They might be paying £300 for the track day!
2) You cannot hope to run *any* car for £150/day - regardless of how cheap it is to buy in the first place. even doing the work yourself and fitting part-worn tyres, your costs will be more than that. That's assuming nothing breaks. I'm sure some wise-ass will chirp up and say that they have run a track car for 50p and conker for the last decade but these people are either deluded, incompetent or both.
3) £2000 excess on a £1000 car? errrrrr - way to go convincing your customers that you're a con-artist!
4) Liability insurance? That's a can of worms opened right there.
etc etc
Jonny
BaT
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