"Shop-Floor" Mentality
Discussion
ApexJimi said:
Are people on minimum wage, or near as dammit, seriously expected to care THAT much about the wider concerns of a company?
I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
Is there? I might have a agreed in the past, but the 'not paid enough to care' have the option to seek employment elsewhere where they are paid enough to care. My view, you take the wage, you accept that you have a duty of care towards the company, just as they do towards you.I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
rhinochopig said:
ApexJimi said:
Are people on minimum wage, or near as dammit, seriously expected to care THAT much about the wider concerns of a company?
I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
Is there? I might have a agreed in the past, but the 'not paid enough to care' have the option to seek employment elsewhere where they are paid enough to care. My view, you take the wage, you accept that you have a duty of care towards the company, just as they do towards you.I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
rhinochopig said:
ApexJimi said:
Are people on minimum wage, or near as dammit, seriously expected to care THAT much about the wider concerns of a company?
I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
Is there? I might have a agreed in the past, but the 'not paid enough to care' have the option to seek employment elsewhere where they are paid enough to care. My view, you take the wage, you accept that you have a duty of care towards the company, just as they do towards you.I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
singlecoil said:
Probably someone who has no interest in the welfare of the company, who does the required hours and then goes home.
That it is somehow amiss to simply do the job and then go home. If I were employing someone to do a minimum wage level job, I genuinely wouldn't expect much more than that, to be honest.As for the "not paid enough to care" mentality, I presume that this is in reference to considerations over and above what they are already being paid little do to.
I'm also reminded of a phrase I once heard - "pay peanuts, get monkeys", which is perhaps a sweeping statement granted, but not without some merit.
Edited by ApexJimi on Friday 2nd September 13:12
BliarOut said:
rhinochopig said:
ApexJimi said:
Are people on minimum wage, or near as dammit, seriously expected to care THAT much about the wider concerns of a company?
I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
Is there? I might have a agreed in the past, but the 'not paid enough to care' have the option to seek employment elsewhere where they are paid enough to care. My view, you take the wage, you accept that you have a duty of care towards the company, just as they do towards you.I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
ApexJimi said:
That it is somehow amiss to simply do the job and then go home. If I were employing someone to do a minimum wage level job, I genuinely wouldn't expect much more than that, to be honest.
As for the "not paid enough to care" mentality, I presume that this is in reference to considerations over and above what they are already being paid little do to.
I'm also reminded of a phrase I once heard - "pay peanuts, get monkeys", which is perhaps a sweeping statement granted, but not without some merit.
The problem is that most of these people will never get promoted.As for the "not paid enough to care" mentality, I presume that this is in reference to considerations over and above what they are already being paid little do to.
I'm also reminded of a phrase I once heard - "pay peanuts, get monkeys", which is perhaps a sweeping statement granted, but not without some merit.
Edited by ApexJimi on Friday 2nd September 13:12
They go through life feeling that they are victims, when with just a tiny amount of effort, they could make major improvements in their lives.
I've had two major promotions during my career. Both were the direct result of volunteering to do things that I wasn't paid to do.
Don
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ApexJimi said:
Are people on minimum wage, or near as dammit, seriously expected to care THAT much about the wider concerns of a company?
I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
One of my staff occasionally says "I'm not paid enough to think" if she's done something really stupid.I've often heard the phrase uttered "I'm not paid enough to care" and while I agree that it isn't entirely a good attitude to have, there IS a certain amount of undeniable logic there.
My retort to that is "you don't care/think enough to get paid more", by which I mean most of the people with that kind of attitude tend to stay low paid for a reason.
My manager started on the shop floor of the garden centre to which we are connected, I started at the grunt level, but was promoted - for this industry - very quickly. What we have in common is that we've never said "I'm not paid to think/care".
Funnily enough I have a mate who also is a printer, one of the guys who gets the call when things/machines go pear shaped when he's off shift.
The firm has been in trouble for some time. Last year voluntary pay freezes and hours cut etc,etc.
Big boss turned up at the plant 2 weeks back. The porche and fezza are gone now, he just has the one rangie 11 plate, white V8.
Calls them all together and delivers the BAD news. Plant shutting. All out the door.
Fast forwards a week and the letters are out. BUT the pension details are missing, as is the pension fund, seemingly.
So I'm with those of the "do the hours and take the money" persuasion, anything else is a piss take in UK industry today.
The firm has been in trouble for some time. Last year voluntary pay freezes and hours cut etc,etc.
Big boss turned up at the plant 2 weeks back. The porche and fezza are gone now, he just has the one rangie 11 plate, white V8.
Calls them all together and delivers the BAD news. Plant shutting. All out the door.
Fast forwards a week and the letters are out. BUT the pension details are missing, as is the pension fund, seemingly.
So I'm with those of the "do the hours and take the money" persuasion, anything else is a piss take in UK industry today.
I'm not paid enough to care usually kicks in when a company starts taking liberties, makes large profits then says sorry there's no money in for pay rises or expects more work for worse conditions. A couple of below inflation payrises during the good times and demands for more effort in the bad can breed resentment.
ApexJimi said:
Munter said:
Work ethic. Something PHers say layabouts should have.
Yet here are people really saying they shouldn't?
Seriously, having read this thread, that is the conclusion you have arrived at?Yet here are people really saying they shouldn't?
10/10 for hysterical translation
0/10 for comprehension
k em"? Do tell. Far as I'm concerned they are one and the same.Not many UK workers in hotels because "UK workers who could do the jobs have no work ethic, so there's no point employing them, when a Pole with a good work ethic will do it". Is a familiar story on PH.
ApexJimi said:
I agree Don, but equally, to play devil's advocate - there isn't always scope for promotion.
Unless you are the MD, then I believe that there is always scope for promotion. Sure, there are people with learning difficulties or a disability that may limit what they can do. For the majority, there is always scope for improvement.Hell, I know that I could do much better if I tried.
Sometimes I find it a bit heartbreaking to see bright people holding themselves back for no good reason.
Don
--
I work for a large company on the bottom rung of a long and boring ladder. A lot of people at my work are on 10-15 hour contracts. But work nearly full time with over time. Last year in November over time was band with no prior warning. So everyone is back to contracted hours for the wage before Christmas. Not ideal as people are low earners and many were relying on that wage. Role on February time everyone gets a 'congratulatory' letter saying thanks to our hard work the company made x number of millions over Christmas. That didn't leave a particularly sweet taste in the mouth for very many.
StevieBee said:
I'd say that having consideration and a duty of care to the company that pays your wages is vital.
Example....
My company had an association with a printing company that had been going for over 30 years. Very good company, good managers, owners and a decent workforce. It ran into difficulties in 2008 which got worse as two major clients went bust and the banks tightened lending.
In early 2010, matters got worse still but not critical. In order for the company to survive, cuts needed to be made. The owners didn't want to make anyone redundant so said they would need to make salary cuts - 6% for the smaller ones up to 15% for the higher salaries. This was rejected out of hand by the workers as the problems the company was facing "wasn't their fault' and that it is the owners and senior management that should suffer (despite them for at least 18 months being the lowest paid of all employees and carrying the greatest personal risk).
Unions got involved and the cuts never came into force.
The company closed the doors one week before Christmas last year, putting 45 out of work with little chance of any of them seeing any redundancy pay.
Very few of them have found new jobs since.
This is an example of the shop-floor mentality in its worst form. Had the workforce given due consideration to their employer, they would still be employed, the company still trading and facing a bright future.
I hope they all realise that it's in part their fault the company folded and they're now jobless.Example....
My company had an association with a printing company that had been going for over 30 years. Very good company, good managers, owners and a decent workforce. It ran into difficulties in 2008 which got worse as two major clients went bust and the banks tightened lending.
In early 2010, matters got worse still but not critical. In order for the company to survive, cuts needed to be made. The owners didn't want to make anyone redundant so said they would need to make salary cuts - 6% for the smaller ones up to 15% for the higher salaries. This was rejected out of hand by the workers as the problems the company was facing "wasn't their fault' and that it is the owners and senior management that should suffer (despite them for at least 18 months being the lowest paid of all employees and carrying the greatest personal risk).
Unions got involved and the cuts never came into force.
The company closed the doors one week before Christmas last year, putting 45 out of work with little chance of any of them seeing any redundancy pay.
Very few of them have found new jobs since.
This is an example of the shop-floor mentality in its worst form. Had the workforce given due consideration to their employer, they would still be employed, the company still trading and facing a bright future.
swiftpete said:
StevieBee said:
I'd say that having consideration and a duty of care to the company that pays your wages is vital.
Example....
My company had an association with a printing company that had been going for over 30 years. Very good company, good managers, owners and a decent workforce. It ran into difficulties in 2008 which got worse as two major clients went bust and the banks tightened lending.
In early 2010, matters got worse still but not critical. In order for the company to survive, cuts needed to be made. The owners didn't want to make anyone redundant so said they would need to make salary cuts - 6% for the smaller ones up to 15% for the higher salaries. This was rejected out of hand by the workers as the problems the company was facing "wasn't their fault' and that it is the owners and senior management that should suffer (despite them for at least 18 months being the lowest paid of all employees and carrying the greatest personal risk).
Unions got involved and the cuts never came into force.
The company closed the doors one week before Christmas last year, putting 45 out of work with little chance of any of them seeing any redundancy pay.
Very few of them have found new jobs since.
This is an example of the shop-floor mentality in its worst form. Had the workforce given due consideration to their employer, they would still be employed, the company still trading and facing a bright future.
I hope they all realise that it's in part their fault the company folded and they're now jobless.Example....
My company had an association with a printing company that had been going for over 30 years. Very good company, good managers, owners and a decent workforce. It ran into difficulties in 2008 which got worse as two major clients went bust and the banks tightened lending.
In early 2010, matters got worse still but not critical. In order for the company to survive, cuts needed to be made. The owners didn't want to make anyone redundant so said they would need to make salary cuts - 6% for the smaller ones up to 15% for the higher salaries. This was rejected out of hand by the workers as the problems the company was facing "wasn't their fault' and that it is the owners and senior management that should suffer (despite them for at least 18 months being the lowest paid of all employees and carrying the greatest personal risk).
Unions got involved and the cuts never came into force.
The company closed the doors one week before Christmas last year, putting 45 out of work with little chance of any of them seeing any redundancy pay.
Very few of them have found new jobs since.
This is an example of the shop-floor mentality in its worst form. Had the workforce given due consideration to their employer, they would still be employed, the company still trading and facing a bright future.
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