Employer's GPS Tracking on Personal Car
Discussion
swerni said:
essayer said:
But then are you happy for your employer to have information you were, say, doing 90mph on your way home from work one day? You were doing it very safely on a NSL road with good vis, of course. suddenly it becomes a disciplinary matter and you get a written warning. Is that fair?
But it's not a disciplinary issue or even a work one, so is irrelevant. If I do 140 or 70 on the way home, it matters not to my company
Oh hang on.
All those people with trackers in their cars.
What if tracker reported every time someone was speeding.
My last employer had gps trackers on all company vehicles which had a maximum speed restriction. If any company vehicle exceeded that maximum speed, an email was automatically sent to the line manager. If you kept exceeding the maximum speed, it was indeed a disciplinary matter. This meant that you couldn't drive over 80mph without having your manager on the phone. Utterly ridiculous.
swerni said:
But it's not a disciplinary issue or even a work one, so is irrelevant.
If I do 140 or 70 on the way home, it matters not to my company
It does if you're a field based employee and work from home. All the time you're out of the house for work related jouneys you're driving on company business.If I do 140 or 70 on the way home, it matters not to my company
HSE were supposed to be having a big crackdown on employee driving but they never got the resource they needed to do it, so they let it go. But potentially the employer could be held responsible for anything the employee gets up to.
swerni said:
Oh hang on.
All those people with trackers in their cars.
What if tracker reported every time someone was speeding.
What if they use all the gantry cameras to work out your average speed on every motorway and send you fines
what if, what if what if..................
The EU is mad keen for all that to happen. GPS for road charging was originally going to be mandatory in all new cars from 2009 but there was a big push back against that. Then they started on eCall, so it moved to being a safety thing. Remember when the 112 emergency number was added in the UK? - that was do do with eCall.All those people with trackers in their cars.
What if tracker reported every time someone was speeding.
What if they use all the gantry cameras to work out your average speed on every motorway and send you fines
what if, what if what if..................
Quite a lot of work has been done on behlaf of the EU on speed control using GPS - Leeds uni were heavily involved.
Fitting a tracker in the employee's own vehicle, regardless of car allowance, is outrageous.
People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my f
king business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.
I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my f
king business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
Does your contract state that a condition of receiving the car allowance is to have the tracker fitted? If it doesn't the company doesn't have a leg to stand on.
They might have a clause in the contract stating they can make small changes to your contract. I'm not an HR specialist or lawyer but I have discussed this clause with an HT director and I would counter this isn't a small change.
They might have a clause in the contract stating they can make small changes to your contract. I'm not an HR specialist or lawyer but I have discussed this clause with an HT director and I would counter this isn't a small change.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Fitting a tracker in the employee's own vehicle, regardless of car allowance, is outrageous.
People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my fking business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.
I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
Well saidPeople say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my f
king business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
Inkyfingers said:
I was discussing this subject with somebody the other day. It seems to me like a policy to try and catch a small number of people on the fiddle at the expense of making all the honest employees feel like the company doesn't trust them.
I think if it was a company car I could understand it, but putting a tracker on a personal car is a step too far. Next they'll be tracking staff using their mobile phones and installing cameras in people's home offices to make sure they are not taking too many tea breaks when working from home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGg1567fzTYI think if it was a company car I could understand it, but putting a tracker on a personal car is a step too far. Next they'll be tracking staff using their mobile phones and installing cameras in people's home offices to make sure they are not taking too many tea breaks when working from home.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Fitting a tracker in the employee's own vehicle, regardless of car allowance, is outrageous.
People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my fking business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.
I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
I totally agree that his private movements should remain private.People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my f
king business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
I think it's worth the OP checking with the company/installers what the privacy button actually does. Because if, as claimed, it only deactivates until the ignition is put off and on again then he's right; it would only hide the route and speed since the destination is revealed once the device powers on when you start the car to leave.
However another poster who has first hand experience of a similar system stated that turning it off meant it stayed off until turned on again. If THIS is how the privacy button works then that sounds more reasonable.
So I'd check exactly what the mode of operation of that privacy button is, and if it's not acceptable then just put a toggle switch in the ignition power line to the device to make your OWN privacy switch with an acceptable mode of operation.
bulldong said:
zollburgers said:
A camera in every room in your house is only slightly more invasive than a tracker installed on a car paid for by them? Right.
Guess what.....when you walk down the street OTHER PEOPLE WATCH YOU!!!!!!! We should all take each other to court to defend our civil liberties.
Other people don't record you and leave your movements on a database for no reason.Guess what.....when you walk down the street OTHER PEOPLE WATCH YOU!!!!!!! We should all take each other to court to defend our civil liberties.
Apologies if you never leave the house now that you are in possession of this knowledge.
zollburgers said:
bulldong said:
zollburgers said:
A camera in every room in your house is only slightly more invasive than a tracker installed on a car paid for by them? Right.
Guess what.....when you walk down the street OTHER PEOPLE WATCH YOU!!!!!!! We should all take each other to court to defend our civil liberties.
Other people don't record you and leave your movements on a database for no reason.Guess what.....when you walk down the street OTHER PEOPLE WATCH YOU!!!!!!! We should all take each other to court to defend our civil liberties.
Apologies if you never leave the house now that you are in possession of this knowledge.
People like you, and others in the UK who take the opinion of "I'm not doing anything wrong so why should I worry" mean that the government now think nothing of just erecting more cameras in the street (which could look in to your house) and employers think that changing company policy so that they can force employees to install their cars with GPS trackers is acceptable.
There is, admittedly very little you can do about the CCTV cameras in the street, but this lax attitude of people towards being monitored all the time without concern has meant that boundaries about data collection on the general population are seriously blurry when it comes to what is and isn't an acceptable level of monitoring.
get them to fit it to a scooter, take it norway in a ferry or something,
actually I like the idea best of having a 'my car' and a 'not my car'. fit it to the (redundant) 'my car' and then just use the 'not my car'. the option of inconveniencing them with regular changes of 'my car' is a nice one too.
out of interest, what do you feel the general perception of this new policy is in your company?
actually I like the idea best of having a 'my car' and a 'not my car'. fit it to the (redundant) 'my car' and then just use the 'not my car'. the option of inconveniencing them with regular changes of 'my car' is a nice one too.
out of interest, what do you feel the general perception of this new policy is in your company?
swerni said:
bulldong said:
swerni said:
I have a car allowance and couldn't care less if someone put a tracker on my car.
If it's a company wide policy, they are going to do it anyway so getting stressed over it is pointless
What are you concerned about?
You banging the bosses wife or fiddling the mileage?
That is exactly the attitude that has lead to a continuing erosion of civil liberties in the UK ie the right to go about your daily business without people watching you.If it's a company wide policy, they are going to do it anyway so getting stressed over it is pointless
What are you concerned about?
You banging the bosses wife or fiddling the mileage?
It's not about "I'm not doing anything wrong so why should I care" it's about why should someone have the right to see what I'm doing when I'm doing nothing wrong?
Im sure you wouldn't like it if the govt or your employer said they were going to put a camera in every room in your house, which is only slightly more invasive to personal privacy than tracking your car during personal use, and then said "well if you're doing nothing wrong why are you bothered about us watching you?"
Do you have any concept of how much data is collected on all of us on disparate and incompatible systems every day of the week?
For the most part, all the data they store ( or in many cases don't) is utterly useless.
What has a company putting a gps tracker in a car that they are paying for have any relevance to camera's in my house?
I can see the upside of the GPS as it would make my expense claims and tax return much easier.
I would suggest the OP picks the battles he can win, unless of course he has something to hide.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Fitting a tracker in the employee's own vehicle, regardless of car allowance, is outrageous.
People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my fking business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.
I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
Exactly!! People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my f
king business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
Thanks
swerni said:
the company give you an amount for you to purchase and run your car, therefore they indirectly pay for it, you then give the money to the finance company.
That's why it's called a car allowance
So what did HR say when you raised the issue with them?
I didn't think the two were linked to be honest. My last company paid me a car allowance and never drove a single mile for business reasons - it was just a financial reward for all management regardless of where they are based.That's why it's called a car allowance
So what did HR say when you raised the issue with them?
As previously mentioned, I would assume this would constitute a change of contract which you do not have to agree to (as, unless you agree to it, your compensation package will be reduced). If it doesn't then you can be under no obligation to have this fitted.
I wouldn't accept this at all and I hope the OP doesn't either.
NoComment said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Fitting a tracker in the employee's own vehicle, regardless of car allowance, is outrageous.
People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my fking business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.
I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
Exactly!! People say "what have you got to hide?"
Maybe the OP frequents red light areas. In his own car, in his own time, what business is it of his employer.
Maybe the OP's wife is in a mental hospital following a breakdown. And he visits her in the evening and doesn't want this info shared with his employer.
Maybe the OP wants to drive in his own car to an interview with his current employers biggest rival. He doesn't want them asking what he was doing at their premises.
Maybe the OP has a family member in jail. He wants to visit but doesn't want his employer knowing he's visiting a prison.
Basically....it's none of my f
king business why the OP doesn't want his private movements tracked, and it's none of his employers business either.I'd be speaking to an employment law expert if it were me.
Thanks
I'm not one to stand in moral judgement, but cruising for prostitutes whilst your wife is in hospital with a mental breakdown, that's a bit much isn't it?
Still, it's your life. Good luck with the job interview, and I hope your relative reforms his ways when he gets out of clink.
200bhp said:
That looks like an outstanding option! Always assuming the OP doesn't actually want to use his own GPS device to actually navigate anywhere, of course.....Personally, I'd take the view that it's my car, so it's my rules. The policy the OP put up says it's for tracking during working hours, and that it just requires access to earth, live and ignition circuits.
That being the case, I'd accept the policy, then provide the engineer fitting the system with wires for earth, live and ignition so he can connect up his box. I would then simply fit a switch to the live feed so that I can turn the system off outside working hours.
I would also tell my employer I was planning to do this. Based on their own policy, they could not possibly have grounds for argument, surely?
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