Giving your boss an ultimatum

[Foliage]

Just leave. No point in getting all emotional about it, I doubt they would match it if its that much of a jump. Don't burn any bridges, life has a funny way of causing coincidental connections to happen.

[a]

Years ago I got an offer for 65% more than my job at the time. I knew I was being undervalued but didn't realise it was that much until I spoke with some recruiters.
I had been at the company for a few years and liked it, so I was honest and told them I'd stay for "only" 30% extra. They offered 8%. I left.
After months of failing to hire a replacement for my position, they ended up hiring someone less experienced for even more than my new salary! And he left after a few months when he got a better offer elsewhere... Can't say I felt sorry for them after the poor 8% offer

IMO if you're happy/friendly with your current employer, then I'd have an informal chat to point out the position you're in. Tell them you'd like to stay but the extra money would have a big impact and you can't turn it down.

[NDA]

janesmith1950 said:

If I were your boss I'd be wondering who initiated the conversation with the other company and whether I would be setting a precedent with my other employees by offering more money as a result.

It would come down to whether I felt I could replace you with enough ease and at a close enough cost to current, versus whether you had something I didn't want to lose and you would be discreet about the situation.

TL:DR

If you're easy to replace and/or a gossip, I'd let you leave without a counter offer.

I'd agree with the above.....

Also, most people don't like being cornered, so the natural reaction (from me at least) would be that you're obviously looking around and this situation will only come up again in the future - so I'd be tempted to let you go.

If you want to go, then go. If it's only about the money, ask for some more.

[boyse7en]

Had this situation twice.

First time: Was offered £15k by a new employer (this was a while ago!) and was on £11k at the time. I resigned and told them I had a new job. They agreed to match salary which I refused (on the basis that I wouldn't get another pay rise for years after being given a £4k rise) at which point they offered £16.5k, which I accepted. I am the world's worst negotiator, so all the upping of salary came from them rather than from my suggestions.

A few years later, same thing happened again, but this time even though they offered to match salary I walked as I was fed up of them never doing any pay rises unless I resigned...

[BMWBen]

Doofus said:

You went looking for another job, before you talked to your boss about your situation. If I was your boss, and you tried anything other than a straight resignation, I'd sack you.

I'm interested in this perspective because the way I see it the only sensible thing to do is to get the job offer first before telling your boss that your job is st and you're being underpaid. After all, how do you know you're being underpaid unless you go to market to find out? And what if your boss has a negative reaction to your enquiries and sacks you?

So... what specifically is the problem with doing it this way round?

[fido]

This is the sort of thing to mention in your annual appraisal - if you have one.

[HRL]

My boss did this last week. He's now on garden leave, make of that what you will.

Turns out he was bluffing too!

[anonymous-user]

BMWBen said:

So... what specifically is the problem with doing it this way round?

I'm sure there will be people with alternate strategies. In the OPs situation, I'd probably have approached the current boss and said I still get emails and phone calls from recruiters from time to time, and I'd noticed the market rate being offered now has risen faster than my own salary. If I was otherwise happy in the role, I'd say so and that I accept that different employers pay different amounts, however the gap is quite large and ignoring it is causing pressure.

The employer's response will tell you how much they value you.

[BMWBen]

janesmith1950 said:

BMWBen said:

So... what specifically is the problem with doing it this way round?

I'm sure there will be people with alternate strategies. In the OPs situation, I'd probably have approached the current boss and said I still get emails and phone calls from recruiters from time to time, and I'd noticed the market rate being offered now has risen faster than my own salary. If I was otherwise happy in the role, I'd say so and that I accept that different employers pay different amounts, however the gap is quite large and ignoring it is causing pressure.

The employer's response will tell you how much they value you.

The problem from your employer's point of view is that everybody wants more money, and just because recruiters say a job will pay X doesn't mean that you will be able to get either the job or necessarily the X.

If your employer does keep accurate tabs on the market and keeps peoples' remuneration competitive as a matter of course, then that would be fine, but few do.

My real question was why going to the market and really finding out what your skills are worth conclusively would be seen as a negative thing that would warrant doofus sacking you for having done it.

[DanL]

janesmith1950 said:

I'm sure there will be people with alternate strategies. In the OPs situation, I'd probably have approached the current boss and said I still get emails and phone calls from recruiters from time to time, and I'd noticed the market rate being offered now has risen faster than my own salary. If I was otherwise happy in the role, I'd say so and that I accept that different employers pay different amounts, however the gap is quite large and ignoring it is causing pressure.

The employer's response will tell you how much they value you.

The problem with this approach is that you've now told them you're thinking of leaving, and so the chances of a pay rise or interesting long term projects may diminish.

I firmly believe you need either an offer on the table from somewhere else or a desire to leave for more money if you don't see an increase if you take this route... It's not a good way just to try and get a raise.

I believe the OP is playing it right. This should not be an emotional decision for the company or manager. Simply tell them that you were approached and went for an interview, and that you now have an offer that is very hard to ignore. Say you'd prefer to stay with the current company, but unless they can do something to level the playing field it will be hard to do.

Worst case they say they're sorry to lose you but can't match, best case they realise they're paying behind the market and you've noticed, and they need to do something about it.

[Durzel]

Pointless being anything other than honest.

Get a written contract from the new place, resign with no expectations beyond the fact that you've resolved to work somewhere else. if there are subsequently offers made from your existing place you can look at them with a clear and unemotional head.

Getting into ultimatums is just a bad idea all round really, it poisons you as an employee for the existing company, any ideas they might have had about developing you would evaporate, and you'd thereafter be treated as if you're as good as gone the moment any opportunity comes up anyway.

In my (thankfully limited) experience the only way to handle these things is with total honesty.

edit: I personally think it's very dangerous to have pre-emptive conversations about leaving with no other options on the table, especially if you are used to being very candid with your boss. It can work if you truly are invaluable to the business, but it's a hell of a gambit to play.

Edited by Durzel on Thursday 11th May 16:31

[hyphen]

HuntD said:

1. Accept the new offer and then resign from my current position, when asked why say I have a job offer with more money, see if they offer.

Ultimatum is the wrong approach.

If you do want to stay: Have a meeting with your boss, tell him you have been offered a new role. Say that you are very happy in the current role and its a reluctant move but you need more money to buy a house/start a family/whatever good reason, don't say Mx5 and that is why you have taken it.

It is up to him to come back to you and say if we matched then will you stay, he may well be happy to see you gone

[HuntD]

Some good replies but I have already had numerous meetings with our CEO about pay rises and he says the shareholders aren't approving anything at the minute, this has been the case for 2 years despite the fact we've just hired a new HR director for £100k PA and 3 news sales people.

I have a job offer but after further thought I don't want the job, but I may give an ultimatum anyway (bluff in other words), even if they say no to a rise and I don't leave, I've not lost anything and another job will come up in a few weeks or months anyway.

P.S. Nobody is irreplaceable, but it would cause a significant headache if I were to leave.

[hairyben]

I dont understand all this reluctance to tell the boss you've had an offer and how about a chat, I know there are some assholes out there but this is simply market forces, I dont see how OP looking around for what hes worth is any different from his boss looking around wanting to pay the leastest for his electric and stationery, or indeed up his own prices if he thinks the market will stand it.

I mean sugar coating it is nice for sensibilities of course, you were just minding your own business happily working away one day when bam! a man emails you with a headhunted +£kk job offer, but if it offends theres something deeply wrong with the offended.

[Jasmine1]

HuntD said:

Some good replies but I have already had numerous meetings with our CEO about pay rises and he says the shareholders aren't approving anything at the minute, this has been the case for 2 years despite the fact we've just hired a new HR director for £100k PA and 3 news sales people.

I have a job offer but after further thought I don't want the job, but I may give an ultimatum anyway (bluff in other words), even if they say no to a rise and I don't leave, I've not lost anything and another job will come up in a few weeks or months anyway.

P.S. Nobody is irreplaceable, but it would cause a significant headache if I were to leave.

Are you going to show your boss the offer in writing? What if he rings up the potential employer and slags you off?

[NDA]

hairyben said:

I dont understand all this reluctance to tell the boss you've had an offer .

Speaking as an employer, I can only say that employees who tell me they have been on interviews (enough interviews to secure a written offer) create a certain doubt in my mind. Some would go further and say it creates tension and animosity. Once you know an employee is unhappy and looking around you start to discount them from your future plans - so it's ultimately damaging.

That's why I would never recommend discussing it. Stay or go.

I know there will be many examples where this ploy has been used to good effect - but, in the round, I'd advise against it.

[hairyben]

NDA said:

Speaking as an employer, I can only say that employees who tell me they have been on interviews (enough interviews to secure a written offer) create a certain doubt in my mind. Some would go further and say it creates tension and animosity. Once you know an employee is unhappy and looking around you start to discount them from your future plans - so it's ultimately damaging.

That's why I would never recommend discussing it. Stay or go.

I know there will be many examples where this ploy has been used to good effect - but, in the round, I'd advise against it.

But you're allowing your own insecurity to build the stigma/fear that surrounds this topic that means you probably lose good employees who'd rather the comfort & security of staying put - If they valued the other job over their current one they'd be handing in their resignation, not wanting to negotiate.

Ultimately if your employees, every last one of them, didnt need a paycheck they wouldnt be there, once you accept that is it not fairly reasonable they want the best deal for themselves, and they only get that by looking around?

Its a bit like people who act possessive over their partners are relationships doomed to fail.

[ruggedscotty]

This has happened many many times in the past, so you wont be the first. What I will say is that it often doesn't go in your favour. The ultimatum is normally met with short shift and a quick passage through the door. Even if you stay they will know you that you are known to pull a trick like this and bosses, well bosses hate unexpected surprises like this and you will find that they will get someone in and get them trained up so that they are not left exposed like that again.

Its a fool hardy thing to do. If I was you id asses whats the best position and then make a choice and go through with it. its not all about the money. how does the job fit in with your life.