Been Overpaid - Now they want it back

[craigjm]

Gary C] said:

Fortunately I had some overtime due that month otherwise I would actually have had a zero pay packet as the amount was slightly more than my monthly salary)

They are not allowed to do that these days as they can't leave you with less than minimum wage even if you have given permission for the deduction.

[Sir Bagalot]

I always find it amazing when people don't realise they're being overpaid... But notice underpayment within nanoseconds

[craigjm]

Guys read the OP carefully. The issue has been with his pensions contributions so his bottom line looked about right.

[anonymous-user]

The Leaper said:

The law is pretty clear on this type of error.

...
5. If you have suffered distress and inconvenience as a result of your employer's maladministration you are entitled to seek financial compensation from them to them your D & I.


...

Can you please indicate the legal basis for this proposition? Perhaps you are thinking of the discretionary payments sometimes recommended by the Pensions Ombudsman when pension has been overpaid. That does not appear to be the case here. The Pensions Ombudsman would not usually act in a case about overpaid wages.

There is no legal entitlement to compensation for distress and inconvenience arising from an employment contract. In general, compensation for distress is reserved to a few contexts: unlawful discrimination, defamation, and some personal injury cases.

Your summary of the legal position also omits to mention the defence of change of position, which I refer to below.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 24th May 07:50

[anonymous-user]

craigjm said:

21TonyK said:

Sorry to but in...

Is there a specific time period in which an employer must reclaim overpayments? Say within 12 months? Especially if not still the persons employer?

No there isn't....

Yes there is. The limitation period is six years.

[anonymous-user]

OP, if you have significantly changed you position by, for example, spending the extra money on a holiday, you could properly resist repayment. There is what is known as a change of position defence to a claim for restitution of money paid by mistake. This defence will only succeed when it would be unjust for you to have to repay the money. Unjust means something more than inconvenient. In most cases of overpayment of an employee, the employee must repay the amount paid in error, but there are exceptions based on individual circumstances.

Negotiate.

[hast2]

Breadvan72 said:

OP, if you have significantly changed you position by, for example, spending the extra money on a holiday, you could properly resist repayment. There is what is known as a change of position defence to a claim for restitution of money paid by mistake. This defence will only succeed when it would be unjust for you to have to repay the money. Unjust means something more than inconvenient. In most cases of overpayment of an employee, the employee must repay the amount paid in error, but there are exceptions based on individual circumstances.

Negotiate.

Thanks, I know they need to have the money back, it's just the way they are going about, along with their lack of apology, not really giving any details on why it happened, and appearing uncooperative on how it'll be paid back, is all getting my back up a little bit and making me want to dig my heals in.

I'll send a e-mail to my manager today expressing my displeasure at the situation and that I would like more information, and for them to work out and explain to me the tax implications since it's split across 2 tax years.

For those that are calling me crazy - I'm a salary employee, I have no need to check my wage slip every month, as long as what goes into my bank account is the same as last month all is good in the world. (we have online payslips and the system is very slow and not very user friendly) I watched my bank account for a change and it appeared (admittedly a month late, but that wasn't a surprise as they normally mess stuff up). couple months after that my wages looked irregular, and then I logged into my payslips and noticed the pension stuff, I worked out all the pension stuff and seen that they had corrected their error - what I didn't notice at that time was my wages hadn't changed, as I was only looking at the pension section (my mistake I didn't put 2 and 2 together, but it was over 4 month period, and I'm not in the habit of adding up my wages to make sure my monthly wage is equal to my salary). Anyway, next few months my wages are all over the place again due to year end bonus, and then yearly wage increase which was back dated (it went through 2 months late for the entire company) And then we are at the point I find out about the error.

Hope that helps all the righteous folk that think I'm crazy.

[anonymous-user]

Send a calm, non shouty, and mega reasonable letter. Point out that the mistake was the employer's, and point out that you are being, at the very least, inconvenienced by having to make unexpected financial adjustments because of the error. Ask for an extended time to pay. Express polite concern at the brusque manner in which this has been dealt with. Position yourself as the loyal and reasonable employee who has been treated a bit bluntly.

I do not think that it is at all strange that you did not notice the overpayment for a while. Not all of us count every penny or hover over every bank statement.

[anonymous-user]

craigjm said:

Gary C] said:

Fortunately I had some overtime due that month otherwise I would actually have had a zero pay packet as the amount was slightly more than my monthly salary)

They are not allowed to do that these days as they can't leave you with less than minimum wage even if you have given permission for the deduction.

Try this one again after March 2019.

[DanL]

swerni said:

Yup. Once he looked at his payslip, he saw the problem.
Anyone who doesn't look at their payslips for 7 months is crazy

I've not looked at a payslip for years - they're on line and I don't recall my sign in details... Amounts look broadly right, and I'm salaried rather than hourly. I don't consider myself to be crazy.

[Eric Mc]

hast2 said:

For those that are calling me crazy - I'm a salary employee, I have no need to check my wage slip every month,

I find that attitude amazing and rather shocking, to be honest. EVERYBODY has a duty, no matter what their status is, to monitor their financial situation. Ignorance should never be a defence - especially if it's wilfull ignorance.

[hast2]

Eric Mc said:

hast2 said:

For those that are calling me crazy - I'm a salary employee, I have no need to check my wage slip every month,

I find that attitude amazing and rather shocking, to be honest. EVERYBODY has a duty, no matter what their status is, to monitor their financial situation. Ignorance should never be a defence - especially if it's wilfull ignorance.

Do my employers have a duty to, not only me, but also the shareholders (for example over paying), to ensure they pay the correct amount to employees.

You quickly get a feel in this thread who are employers and who are employees

[craigjm]

I reckon if you took a survey of 1000 average PAYE employees you would find that over 75% of them don't check their payslip as long as the bottom line amount they are getting is pretty much right.

[FiF]

Just out of interest, won't NI payments also be messed up. If so what's the easiest way to correct that? Sounds like the pensions, pay and salary dept needs sorting out, maybe outsourcing to someone who knows what they're doing. Of course not unheard that outsourcing is the start of the problems, I've experienced that.

[berlintaxi]

hast2 said:

Do my employers have a duty to, not only me, but also the shareholders (for example over paying), to ensure they pay the correct amount to employees.

They do, that is why they are recovering it from you, part of why payslips are issued is so that people can check they are receiving the right pay.

[craigjm]

Breadvan72 said:

craigjm said:

Gary C] said:

Fortunately I had some overtime due that month otherwise I would actually have had a zero pay packet as the amount was slightly more than my monthly salary)

They are not allowed to do that these days as they can't leave you with less than minimum wage even if you have given permission for the deduction.

Try this one again after March 2019.

Indeed, will be interesting to see what changes that may bring

[hast2]

Wondering if someone I the know could let me know what carries more weight - my contract of employment or law?

I know now, that legally my company can take the money back, however my contract of employment mentions a long list of reasons why they'll take money out my wages, and over payments isn't on the list.

It says - The company reserve the right to make deductions from pay under the following circumstances : lateness, absence, loss of company tools, arrestment by court order. No other deductions will be made without the employees written authority.

Thanks to those for their helpful comments so far (especially Breadvan).

I have sent my manager a polite email pointing out that I'm disappointed in the situation, explained the unexpected financial strain this will put me under, and could they reconsider their position. I've also asked them to look into the Tax and NI stuff and explain the repercussions to me since it'll be across 2 tax years.

[berlintaxi]

Section 14 of the employment rights act 1996 allows them to recover the overpayment regardless of your contract.

http://realemploymentlawadvice.co.uk/deductions-wa...

[Eric Mc]

hast2 said:

Do my employers have a duty to, not only me, but also the shareholders (for example over paying), to ensure they pay the correct amount to employees.

Simple answer is yes. An employee, like any taxpayer, is just as responsible for ensuring that the taxes and NI being deducted from their salaries are correct. Of course, employers also have responsibilities too, but employees for too long have not really been educated to or encouraged to take an active interest in how their wages and taxes are calculated.

Making Tax Digital and the Digital Tax Account system, which comes into play in less than a year's time, works on the basis that taxpayers, which, of course, includes employees, are aware of what is going on and whether their tax affairs are correct or not on a real time basis.

[dudleybloke]

As they overpaid your pension it's only fair that you pay it back.

When you get your pension.